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#2686621 Kyle Quincey

Posted by GMRwings1983 on 29 September 2016 - 12:57 PM

I would take Kurt Russell on our defense, though.  

#2686581 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by kliq on 28 September 2016 - 10:30 PM


Surprise, surprise Holland being Holland. Of course it's all speculation but if the price really was a first and only one of Tatar, Nyquist you gotta imagine that's a price you'd pay every day of the week. 


Also people saying a 8x8 offer sheet is too much well guess what? That's the point of an offer-sheet it needs to be designed in a way that the other team won't match, so you get the player you want without giving up assets. Would he be overpaid at 8 mill per? You bet but I guess when all is said and done it will look like a bargain because the guy will be that! good in the future, also the cap keeps rising and Mr. I is loaded 8 mill per for him is nothing. 


Nobody is disputing that the Wings can afford it, its the cap management aspect of the deal that is ludicrous.


With that being said, I wonder who the forwards were that Winnipeg asked for? If it was Larkin and a forward, good job for Holland in standing his ground and not caving in to fan pressure. If it was say a Nyquist/Tatar, then I have to say I kind of wish he pulled the trigger and then gave their spots to a combination of Jurco/Mantha/AA.


Who knows what was asked, its all speculation.

If Tatar scores 30, Nyquist will need to be traded, they won't be able to afford both...unless they dump both Howard and Ericsson.


I think they are fine, they have Miller, Ott, Smith, and Vanek off the books next year, that's close to 7.5 million. Pus I do think next summer is when Howard gets moved as a 2 year contract should not be a hard sell if he doesn't decline anymore this year. E is not going anywhere unfortunately, unless he turns his game around, but if he does that I see Holland keeping him anyways.

#2686481 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by kliq on 28 September 2016 - 01:19 AM

well people can stop with low ball offers, McKenzie said the asking price is a top 4 LHD which from a wings pov relates to Danny D. plus solid forward.

which then would create the problem off whom to pair with Trouba. I think this has the potential to drag out for months.

If the rumours are to be believed and Trouba wanted out for months why didn't Kenny try to offer sheet him? if the jets are too cheap to pay their best defender offer sheet him with 8x8 and boom..Danny D. - Trouba without giving up assets damn


I do agree with you Frank that it will likely take DD to get Trouba, but with that being said, you even said it yourself, asking price and actual value are not the same thing. Of course Winnipeg is going to start this process asking for top value, we will see what happens. It is an interesting situation as being an RFA, Trouba does has more control then usual in this situation as nobody is going to want to trade for a player who may hold out. Trouba and his agent do have some power here.


8x8 for Trouba is just stupid. I am as high on Trouba as anyone, but the kid hasn't done anything yet. He's coming from a team where he played on the third pairing. All the potential in the world, but you don't pay 8x8 for potential. Coming from someone who always says not to put too much pressure on the kids, I dont see how you can justify 8x8 for a 22 year old, talk about pressure, geez.

#2686418 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by kliq on 27 September 2016 - 06:13 PM

I guess what I'm saying is, no matter that they are hometown kids, you just cannot pass up on the opportunity to acquire one or both of these guys.  Holland should be calling ALL the lines in WPG and ANA, just so no other GM can get through!


We have the assets to get both these guys, cut ties Kenny and get this done! This is your future you are dealing with. DO IT! Outbid them ALL!!!


I feel like your expectations are impossible to meet. You specifically say "Outbid them ALL" then you say things like "No Larkin, No AA, No DD, No Mrazek etc." You cant have it both ways.


I hope Holland can get these guys with picks/our 2nd tier players, but based on everything I am reading, Winnipeg wants a top LH D-man, and from Detroit that would be DD.

#2686298 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by Jesusberg on 25 September 2016 - 01:11 PM

If you want to make a trade to get a guy lime Trouba, you're probably going to have to include one of those guys. That shouldn't be a deal breaker. Potential second line forward for potential top pair D, or even potential top line winger if you're really hyping one of them, the top pair D is still more valuable, and there are none in Detroit's system. They have plenty of top six forwards though. You trade from an area of abundance to get something you lack.

There's a difference between saying there are limits to what I'd be comfortable giving up and saying something is a deal breaker. Obviously I'd prefer if Holland didn't have to include one of AA/Mantha/Svech, but I'm not going to condemn that trade if it happens. I understand the need for someone like Trouba. I won't go as far as to say that people are overvaluing him right now, but the lack of defenders with his kind of potential in Detroit's system is definitely boosting his value in this situation, IMO.

Considering what's at stake, they're most likely going to have to "overpay" in this case, either way. I'm not entirely sure what the Jets are looking for in return, but there are a number of other teams in a better position than the Wings to make a solid offer for Trouba. I'll be pleasantly surprised if Holland can land him.

#2686224 Dan Cleary Gets Training Camp Tryout

Posted by kliq on 24 September 2016 - 10:41 AM


Well the presser was almost an hour long and sometimes a lecture in hockey-history while stumbling over his words so not that easy to follow. The problem is, whatever his definition of rebuild, retool or whatever he wants to do is simple: doing the same thing over and over again and hoping that some players may turn out way better than expected while others are getting more guaranteed top players, who - to quote Holland - are able to put a franchise on their backs is a gamble. All he has to do is look around the league and see the excitment Edmonton, Buffalo, Toronto and Florida and the Isles have with players like McJesus, Eichel, Matthews, Ekblad (whose a Michigan boy) and of course Tavares then you have Winnipeg with Scheifele and Laine. Hoping to find players of that caliber in the later rounds is like searching for a needle in a haycock.


Rebuild to me means handing over the keys to the young guns, let them learn from their mistakes and while doing so get better draft-picks in order to "speed up" the rebuild and get that player that can put a team on his back for many years to come. Of course it's unlikely to find another McJesus (that guy is flying over the ice and has magic hands) but according to Button there will be some very solid (potential) number 1 centers and defenders in the upcoming draft.


So I guess we are debating the re-build lol.


Doing the same things over and over again when you have had great success, is hard to argue against. The last time Holland did a re-build on the fly was when he had to transition from Yzerman, Shanny, Hull, Luc, Hasek, Fedorov, Larionov and others, and Holland did it successfully and won a Stanley Cup, almost 2.


This time, he is doing the same thing, but in a completely different system (ie. cap) which means you cannot do it as fast and it must be more youth based due to the cap.


Here is our top 20 that played most nights (12 Forwards, 6 D, 2 Goalies) in 2012, I will bold anyone who is no longer in our projected top 18 for 2016/17:


Cleary, Datsyuk, Franzen, Filppula, Zetterberg, Hudler, Miller, Abby, Bertuzzi, Helm, Emmerton, Holmstrom, Lidstrom, White, Kronwall, Stuart, Quincey, E, Howard, Conklin


Assuming E and Miller get a starting spot (which is not a given), we have gotten rid of 13 guys. HUGE amount of turnover in just 4 years. 


On our roster now we have Larkin, Mrazek, AA, Mantha?, Nyquist, Tatar, Sheahan, DD, Marchenko, with Jurco, Pulk, XO, and Sproul trying to break into the lineup and alot of top prospects in the minors led by Svechnikov and Mantha? in the waiting.


Without a question, Holland is re-building. Now, whether or not it is successful remains to be seen.


When the mandate from ownership is to keep your streak alive (dont kid yourself, Mr. I cares about this streak, it's his legacy), but you also have to re-build, that isn't the easiest task out there. I will say though, it can be a very efficient way of going about it as creating a culture of losing can be an awful thing (ask any Lions fan about this).


You talk about Edmonton, Buffalo, Toronto, Winnipeg, Florida and the Isles, but how much success has actually been obtained by any of these teams with their tank jobs? Who cares about message board/media hype, what matters is results on the ice. Edmonton has been a joke of a franchise since 2006, how many #1 overall picks and top #5 picks have they had and they still have not gotten into the playoffs. McDavid does appear to be on a different level, but if anyone could screw him up, it would be them. Buffalo has done nothing and have not made the playoffs in years, I think you over-hype Eichel a bit and put wayyyy to much pressure on the kid. Florida got in last year at a high seed, but were bounced early and until they can show consistency, I have a hard time seeing their transition as a success. Toronto and Winnipeg have done nothing, and while the Isles have been consistent in the regular season that past few years, have won 1 playoff series since 1993! I cant see how the Isles can be looked at in a higher light then Wings right now. The only thing the Isles have done that the Wings have not, is they got a #1 pick who they may lose in a year or two.


Now dont misinterpret me, I am not saying all of these teams are failing or are going to fail, what I am saying is that the teams you listed have not accomplished anymore then the Wings with their re-build. I know you only think a player can be great if he was taken top 5, but there is no reason not to think that Larkin will not be our #1 centre as like I have showed before, statistically speaking he is at the same level as Eichel.


Either way, we are going in circles. You want the Wings to get a top 5 pick and to bottom out, I do not. The only way to see if this re-build is working is to give it time. I hope you can see this.


On a side note, Cleary was mentioned in my post ;)

#2686278 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by DickieDunn on 24 September 2016 - 11:17 PM

I'm not one to get misty eyed over prospects, but moving Larkin fills a hole by creating another. Mantha or AA plus a pick and prospect is better and should be comparable to other offers

#2686207 Dan Cleary Gets Training Camp Tryout

Posted by krsmith17 on 23 September 2016 - 11:45 PM

For those that like to s*** on Cleary and / or Holland for keeping him around for so long, maybe you should read / listen to some of the interviews by Holland, Martin, or Cleary himself over the past week or so. It's very clear that he's doing a great job with the kids in Grand Rapids, in particular, Bertuzzi. I think Cleary may be a big factor in Bert's success thus far. Like him or not, Cleary is a stand up guy, with an unbelievable work ethic, and if that rubs off on any of the prospects, even a little bit, he's well worth yet another contract. The kids love and respect the guy, and rightfully so. Keep up the good work in GR Cleary, even if most of what you do down there is off the ice...

#2681624 Thomas Vanek signs 1 year, $2.6m deal with Detroit

Posted by kickazz on 01 July 2016 - 03:07 PM

Holland hasn't done the best job. Miller contract was useless and Helm is overpaid for what he can do (I don't care if he would have gotten more money as a free agent). But I also can't agree with people blaming Holland for not landing some of the players like Lucic, Okposo or Eriksson. It's upto the players whether they want to be here or not. Detroit is not UFA destination it used to be and we have to realize that.


Some people revert into their former high school logic and start blaming Holland for literally every single thing. No one can take you seriously if you can't differentiate between an instance when Holland really IS at fault and when he ISN'T. 


So far I'm frowning at Holland for the Helm/Miller deals but giving a slow golf clap for the Vanek deal and a nod for Nielsen with a questioning look about the length of term. We can only truly know if these things pan out once the season is underway. 

#2681398 Frans Nielson signs 6 year $5.25m AAV contract with Detroit

Posted by kickazz on 01 July 2016 - 12:49 PM

Look it's a bad contract simply because of the length of term and his age. No need to justify with "well it can be traded" because no one is going to want a 35 year old with a $5.25 million cap hit.


Nielsen is a good player and a good leader. I'd consider him a bit underrated in the league especially because I can tell most people have no idea who this guy is and jumping to conclusions. 


I'm not happy with the contract but looking at the positives, he's fills a hole that Datsyuk created. He is officially our top 6 penalty killer that I've been pressing for and bitching about for the last few months. He will reduce Zetterberg's ice time. And will likely push Miller out of the picture. 

#2681393 Frans Nielson signs 6 year $5.25m AAV contract with Detroit

Posted by romagoth on 01 July 2016 - 12:45 PM

Islanders fans are the biggest morons in the country so none of that says much. 

what an ignorant statement

#2680335 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by amato on 29 June 2016 - 05:16 PM

Wings never got a chance? So basically it was see how close the hometown team is to competing, then decide I guess?

On the lighter side of things, this got me good :D haha


#2680248 Stamkos to... Tampa

Posted by Internet.Unknown on 29 June 2016 - 04:04 PM

holland needs a new job. hes been a joke since he couldnt close the suter parise deal.


what has he done since our last cup?


stephan weiss...bust

mike modano..bust

daniel alfredsson...bust

david legwand..bust

erik cole...bust


bard richards...bust

keeping cleary...bust


sammy 2nd time...bust


yes lets go get a washed up eric staal now pay him 6 mil


I understand your frustration but you're exaggerating here.


Alfredsson was not a bust at all. He was old, yeah, but the Wings knew that. He played well.


The Legwand deal was made to keep the Streak alive whether fans like it or not. The Streak continues so the trade can't be considered a bust.


Erik Cole was playing pretty well before getting injured. He was picked up to help in the playoffs and it was a calculated risk and one that should be made any year.

#2680240 Stamkos to... Tampa

Posted by kickazz on 29 June 2016 - 03:57 PM

wings lost a lot of fans past 2 seasons.


losing datsyuk and not getting a big name to replace him hurts a lot

Say goodbye to the bandwagoners then. 

#2680173 Stamkos to... Tampa

Posted by marcaractac on 29 June 2016 - 03:23 PM


They got SHEA WEBER I'd move heaven and earth to get this defenseman.


Have you not seen him in the playoffs this year? The league is moving on from his style of play.