I won't see it until I get home, but I've always thought Kindl had a decent shot from the blue line. Kindl-Smith on the PP might actually help it threaten more, but I'd also think a shortie would be a distinct possibility.
I actually think he's improved in that regard compared to last season. His shots don't get blocked that often any more and it's showing in a positive way.
Do you hear that other teams ? Take our Kindls while they're hot !
First of all, it's not on me to go to ridiculous lengths to prove anything. You want to show why all four goals scored while Smith was on the ice (over the last three games) aren't his fault, by all means go ahead. He was on the ice for 3 goals against during the Buffalo game. Where those Kindl's fault too? You have no idea. You're just defending Smith because (for some reason) you don't like the thought that Kindl can, once in a while, play better than Smith does. He's doing it right now. Get over it.
Secondly, I know Smith and Dekeyser play tougher minutes. But that doesn't make their mistakes less harmful. In fact, it makes them more harmful because when playing against better opponents (or in the defensive zone) your mistakes are MORE likely to end up in the back of the net. Being a better player means Smith gets more opportunity than Kindl or Lashoff. That means more opportunity to succeed AND to fail. For three games our second pair hasn't been succeeding. And that is demonstrably true.
Of course it is on you. You are the one who has to prove that his statistic Player one ice = his fault is true. You want to show us that Kindl plays better right now than Smith despite the latter one being on the second pair with heavier minutes. I already made my point why your stat is flawed. And I'm not defending Smith at all. I'm just saying both and with them the whole team don't play the best hockey at the moment. There isn't any bias from my side. However you are the one who already had several arguments about why Smith isn't as good as some make him.
Yes, kip, but thats not the point. You were saying that Kindl looked as good as Smith therefore Kindl has to play better. Which would be true if Kindl had faced the same kind of opposition Smith and DeKeyser are facing and Kindl simply hadn't. Even better : Kindls positives, the goal and assist, happened on a PP while Smith still waits to get the chance with a man advantage. Talking about more opportunities to succeed. All this proves my point: Kindl is much more sheltered and despite this not looking better than Smith or any other player. What does it tell us about who plays worse hockey at the moment ?
The stats I provided are not "good old +/-". For instance, in the last three games Smith is a -3. But that obscures the fact that he's been on the ice for 4 goals against. Conversely, Kindl is -1 and has been on the ice for 1 goal against. If you only look at +/- (which I wasn't) then the disparity looks better than it is. Over the last three games Smith got scored on at 4 times the rate Kindl did, not three. The only reason it looks better is because Smith's point came 5 on 5 and Kindl's 2 points came on the powerplay. But the fact of the matter is, Kindl's points to goals against ration is +1 while Smith's is -2 (over the last three games).
Or, in other words. Kindl contributed more to a potential victory, and less to a potential defeat (over those three games). Lashoff was dead even. If there's blame to go around, it's not on them (this time).
Smith is the better player. He just wasn't the better player over the last three games. And he has more responsibility, so he NEEDS to be the better player for our team to be successful (as do all players with bigger roles).
I didn't say the are exactly +/- I said they nothing more than, e.g. are as useless as this stat. For example the afore mentioned St.Louis goal : Kindl changes in the worst possible moment, is therefore off the ice when St.Louis scores. Guess who is the lucky guy on the ice desperately trying to catch the guy Kindl just abandoned ? Right, its Smith who, following your stats, is fully responsible for the goal while Kindl is not. If you can break down every goal and show me that and why Smith f***ed up on any of these I'll be the first who's with you. But your stats are just ridiculously flawed. Just because someone is on the ice doesn't mean he is responsible for the goal against.
And while Smith is the better player he also has to face the tougher opposition while Kindl plays heavily sheltered minutes.
I agree. He's a better player. But since he's been gone Lashoff has done absolutely nothing to cost us points. True, he's done absolutely nothing to contribute either. But that's not really expected out of your 7th defenseman.
I'm just sick of everybody scapegoating bottom pair defensemen and grinders when things aren't their fault. By all mean, crucify them if they're screwing up, but lets be objective about it. Over the last three games Brendan Smith has been our worst defenseman. Clearly. Verifiably. Demonstrably. Yet nobody wants to say so because for whatever reason Brendan gets a pass and Kindl (and Lashoff) suck.
When it's their fault, so say. When it's somebody else's, we should all have the balls to say that too.
To be fair Kindl screwed up the change that led to the 2:0 of St.Louis. It's not that he has been good all around while Smith is solely responsible for our GA. The stat you provided are nothing more than the good old +/- which is a very questionable stat imho to measure how good or bad a player did.
That said we had problems making a decent first pass the last few games and I give you that : Smith didn't look good the these games but that can be said about all our D-Man and the team as a whole. You can be Nick Lidstrom, but if your team doesn't skate you'll inevitably produce turnovers (ok, maybe not if your Nick Lidstrom but any other player will) . Smith wasn't notably worse than others especially the sheltered Kindl. I also don't say Kindl sucks, he provides more or less what you'd expect from a 3rd pairing D-Man. The sucking is a team effort so to speak, calling out single players right now is the wrong call in this situation.
In Germany we call that beautifying the bride. The more points he gets the better the return in a trade might be. That and in addition he is one of two D-Man that actually shoots the puck more or less well.
Agreed that we're waiting to see if Weiss comes back and produces. But that shouldn't change Helm's fate. If Weiss does come back and is 100% and effective, then we've got two third line centers (Helm and Sheahan) and one needs to be traded. If Weiss doesn't come back then we've got one guy (Helm) who's a good third line center but not a good enough second line center. So pair him with prospects and/or picks and trade him for a better one. The only way Helm should stay on the team is if he (or Riley Sheahan) start producing like a second line center. Otherwise he's at best redundant, and at worst not good enough.
I still think he's valuable as a penalty killer because of his speed but, yea, he is to pricey for just that.
I thought about it a little bit and in my opinion it would be very dumb of the Wings to use the stint just to send a signal to Weiss. The next one if needed would almost certainly be rejected. And it's not that he was a regular in the lineup lately so I don't get the penalize argument. For a player like Weiss it should be hard enough not to play while guys like Nestrasil do. All in all I'm very optimistic that this is the last step in his rehab and that we will see more of him once his stint in GR is over.