Posted by kipwinger
on 13 September 2014 - 12:47 PM
Happy to see Jordin Tootoo got invited to the Devils camp. Despite never really fitting in here, he played the good soldier and never complained about his plight. He's a class act all the way and I hope he catches on in New Jersey.
I'm going to laugh and laugh and laugh if Tatar signs a more "team friendly" deal than Dekeyser. Everybody is overly worried about Tatar, but the local guy isn't signed either. What if he's the one with the "ego problem" or whatever else is being suggested about Tatar? People act like Tatar is some kind of bad seed because he's trying to get the best deal he can. But clearly Dekeyser is doing the same thing and everyone is mum.
Truth is, neither are currently signed because their value is really hard to determine. They've both played better than your average rookie but don't have a track record. As such, it's hard for both management, and their agents, to figure out what their proper value is. So it takes time.
Scrolling back through this thread makes me chuckle. How funny would it be if Dekeyser was the one who played hardball and not Tatar. Ya know, after a lot of folks made Tatar out to be some ego maniac who was just biding his time before holding the team over the coals.
I think it's interesting that everyone is blaming KH for this deal not being done, but if it were Tatar instead of Dekeyser we'd be inundated with comments about how Tats is an egomaniac who puts himself before the team. Double standard much?
Dekeyser has only played 72 professional hockey games. Whatever he and his agent are asking based on his modest point production and ice time is almost certainly too much. But god forbid anybody call them out, because he's from Michigan.
I mean you hit on the areas Glendening is superior to Andersson, but neglected the other side. Andersson has more offensive ability (not saying much compared to Glendening), is better at faceoffs and penalty killing, while being very comparable defensively to Glendening. So far, Andersson's best showing of hockey (playoffs 2013) is more impressive than anything Glendening has displayed. Again, I don't really care if either is on the team, but I think Glendening is severely overhyped because of the agitating angle.
I guess we will just agree to disagree on Jurco. I don't really care about losing players for nothing if they are expendable for starters. If Callahan is worthy of a roster spot, that's what the pre-season is for him to go out and earn it. The Red Wings can't afford a ten game tryout for the regular season since they are more than likely going to be fighting for their playoff lives again.
IMO that's not what you want from a 4th line C or any 4th line player. You are on the 4th line to shutdown defensively and fight, check, and agitate. Everything the top lines don't do. Andersson has a good defensive mindset and can win FO's but Glendening is a gym freak, mouth running, maltby type. I'd take his 7 pts over Andersson's 17 pts on the 4th line everyday of the week. Plus Glendening is tremendously faster than Andersson. Speed has been the name of the game for years now.
The point I'm advocating is keeping our top guy (Jurco) while also giving our unproven guys a chance. I think that's incredibly fair. Everyone stays with the team as long as they perform. Jurco was good, but was by no means the difference maker. You act like if he doesn't play the wings are going to lose those first ten games. He was secondary support at best. That, of all things, can be gambled with for the betterment of the team as a whole...
I know you wouldn't want this thread to be about you, but how you doing anyway man? I know its been a while since you were diagnosed.
Wow, thanks for asking.
I'm doing great. I can still hold my kids, play with them in the pool, and zipline with them at Whistler.
My parents and my brothers family joined us for a week in San Diego, then all flew to our home in Washington. We just took them to Whistler where we all, including my 75 yr old mumsy, did the longest tallest zip line in North America . (The kids did the bobsled run too, along with my wife)
My 13 yr old niece is putting together a little vacation vid, check it out (the older kids are my nephew and nieces, young one is Olivia , Lilja seemed to be sleeping a lot)
AND my life long friend from growing up in Michigan did an awesome Ice Bucket Challenge vid (he's Air Force) :
IMO this was always a freak accident. Sure Bertuzzi shouldn't have thrown the cheap shot, but there are plenty of on-par or worse cheap shots that have been thrown in the NHL. The only difference is this one happened to end with the unthinkable. The result was certainly not Bertuzzi's intention, just like no player intends to end a career when they go airborne on a hit, or throw an elbow, or slam a head into the boards, or uppercut an opponents face. The intent is always to harm, but never this. The problem is 1/somelargenumber end up like this. That's the reality of fast contact sports that condones fighting. I hope that moore can get what he needs, but I also don't think that Bertuzzi should be burned at the stake for his actions. This has been hashed out a million times, but It's late and I've been drinking.
UGH. I hate what this re-signing has done to people's (myself included) perception of Cleary. That video just made me want to hug him and beg him to retire.
Also, did anyone else notice he referred to himself as "Danny?"
I HATE the signing, but after watching tons of Wings videos this summer, I must say if Cleary was as good a player as he is a person, he would win the Hart Trophy this season. I truly hope he proves us all wrong and has a bounce back season.
Bettman is still the Anti-Christ. Nothing that man does at this point can undo the wrongs that happened under his rule.
-Restocking the prospect shelves. Let's face it, the drafting was pretty hit and miss during the early to mid 2000's. Kenny doesn't get full credit here, but he was part of turning around the prospect pool.
-Being smart with prospect progression. I know a lot of people hate the whole overripe thing, but Nyquist and Tatar are examples of players who have greatly benefited from gaining experience in the minors.
-Signing younger players to solid deals. I think his "bridge deals" are a real positive. Guys like Zetterberg, Filppula and Kronwall all got them, now it's guys like Tatar and most likely Nyquist next year. He seems to be good with the younger player's deals.
-Rebuilding on the fly. Most teams need to tank, sell off their assets and completely alter their team. Detroit's managed to keep their superstars, and nearly all of their promising young players while staying competitive. Whatever your definition of competitive is, Detroit hasn't been a basement dweller - that's a plus in my eyes.
Things I don't think are Ken Holland's fault:
-Missing out on big name free agents. The salary cap has changed the playing field in the NHL, but I also think that the attitudes of players have changed. It's almost as if they want teams to chase them. The whole Suter thing was mind-boggling to me. You're a GM and you get on a plane to go talk to a player? Guys wanting to play in their hometowns, with their best friends, etc. is out of Ken's hands, I think. Does he need to change his approach, perhaps? It's a situation now where players want three things: comfort, comradery and cap hit. The one thing Kenny can control is giving out money, so luring players here is going to be a matter of over payment, I think.
Things I want to slap Ken Holland for:
-Misguided loyalty to veteran players. The list of players could go on and on, but we know the deal here.
-Bringing back familiar talent. I think you can also accuse Kenny of playing it "too safe" here. Bringing back talent to take the places of prospects he feels aren't ready yet. It's kind of a double-edged sword, but at times I think Kenny holds guys back too much. It was great for Gus and Tatar to stay down, but then the team also had that mess at the beginning of the year with Bert, Sammy and Cleary taking up spots.
-Poor judgement with trades and contracts. The Quincey and Legwand trades still bother me. Giving out 3 million dollar, NTC contracts to 35+ year-old vets, and a 4.25 million dollar contract to a pylon.
All things considered, I don't think there's another guy for the job right now, but that doesn't mean I think Kenny is totally effective in his post. He's done a lot of great things for this team, and recently some not-so-great things. If he could just alter his approach to trading, I think he would be totally set.
This team is entering a situation where the star players will be done in a few seasons, and there's quite a bit of talent waiting in the wings to take their place. The question is, which guys are going to become legitimate superstars, and what is Kenny going to do with the excess talent? I think Nyquist, Mantha, Jurco and Tatar all have potential to be star forwards on this team, DeKeyser, Ouellet and Sproul strike me as the future of the blueline, but who knows what will happen when they're not insulated anymore. Kenny's going to have some big decisions to make with the talent on this team, and they're going to determine if this entire "rebuild on the fly" process was really effective or not.
I liked Modano, it's a shame it didn't work out/freak injury. You take a chance on a future hall of famer. Tootoo was an interesting idea, but the rest were garbage from the beginning.
The whole Modano situation could've played out completely differently if not for a freak injury. It's silly that people knock it given what happened. That one ought to be disqualified if you ask me.
all of them minus Colaiacovo
What kills me is that once the guy was healthy, he wasn't so bad for us. I was actually surprised we bought him out given our lack of depth on defense and that once healthy, he played relatively well, considering he was cheap and coming off of injury. At the very least, it didn't seem like he was the first salary problem that needed addressing, that's for damn sure.
We absolutely, positively, needed a top six center a year ago too. We got one, for a cost that wasn't worth it, and the move did nothing to help the team. We need to be wary about how far we're willing to go to fill a need.
I think Mike Green could help. But I'd be wary about giving too much for him. Because there's a thin line between need and want. The Wings have managed quite well without a right shooting PP quarterback in the past, and if the cost is too high they need to be willing to do so again. Missing out on FA has begun to turn the quest for a right defenseman into something messianic, and that worries me more than spending another down year letting the kids develop. Hell we've got people clambering for Jurco and/or Tatar to get traded for an expiring contract because we need it so bad. As if we don't need forwards with size, tenacity, and goal scoring potential, given that our current ones are getting old and injury prone.
I've been over this. We need a Mike Green, period. It's not a flavor of the month situation. It's not a grass is greener situation. Our blue line is broken and that's why we've been stumbling for the past several years. We fix our blue line, we score more. We get a forward with size and tenacity, we stil have a fundamental, systemic problem that's going to hold us back against the better teams in the league.
We're missing Lidstrom and Rafalski far more than we're missing Franzen in his prime and Hossa.
I would give up Tatar as part of a package for Myers, but no way on the other three. At this point, I would just prefer Kenny to do nothing and not overpay for a d-man that probably won't have the impact necessary to make the Wings immediate contenders anyways.
Let the best kid out of training camp grab the sixth spot on defense, move Kindl for whatever possible and say many prayers for Jimmy Howard playing behind that train wreck of a defense.
Would I rather be the Red Wings and make the playoffs every year, but not win the Cup every single year or be Edmonton, Buffalo, NYI, Florida, Carolina, Toronto, etc. who have "tanked it" for years now and are still no closer to a Stanley Cup than the Red Wings? Damn right I would.
"Tanking it" is no guarantee of anything. The Wings already re-tooled "on the fly" once and made it back to win one cup and almost a second.
Edmonton, Carolina, Tampa, amongst other teams, all had Stanley Cups on their resume and quickly became non playoff teams. Chicago and LA are more the exception than the rule. Talent doesn't always translate into wins. There is much more to it than that.
No team, in any sport, competes for a championship every single year for decades at a time.