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Member Since 11 Mar 2013
Offline Last Active Jun 22 2016 07:32 AM

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In Topic: Datsyuk Announcement to Officially Leave NHL

21 June 2016 - 12:50 PM

Healthy ankle or not, I wouldn't hold out hope of him coming back later, 1) it's not going to happen, 2) he'll be that much older and father time has an unbeaten record.  While his was never the quickest player, he still needed enough quickness to be effective....that simply declines over time, as well as stickhandling and reflexes.  Some players are built to play longer while others are not....can be simply based on the player themselves, but there's also a lot to the type of game the player has played.  Take Jagr for example....he's a big guy, lots of reach, wasn't good because of his speed, he was good because of his size and skill (rare combination).  Again, while speed wasn't the most important, slow foot speed hurts everyone. He's not great 5 on 5 anymore and certainly isn't very effective in playoffs anymore.


Could Datysuk still be effective in certain situations?  Sure, but too much to expect he'll be able to play an all around game....but again, the  most important thing to remember is....there's no chance of him coming back, so no point worrying about it




The Pavel Datsyuk of 2016 was not the Pavel Datsyuk of 2007, and the Pavel Datsyuk of 2018 wouldn't be any better.


It was time for him to move on - and I'm actually grateful we didn't spend the next 3 years watching the inevitable sharp decline in a once game changing talent... But I'll never be convinced it was handled appropriately, and for that reason - I doubt the Wings would take him back.

In Topic: Datsyuk Announcement to Officially Leave NHL

20 June 2016 - 01:32 PM

But I really don't think the cap hit for one year is that bad. Maybe we don't sign any free agents and go with the kids. That could end up being great for the organization long-term with AA, Mantha, maybe Bertuzzi getting more opportunity than usual. We weren't going to win the cup next year anyway. Also, I think him leaving actually gives us more of an opportunity to sign Stamkos than we would have had.


Russia would have been the hometown discount? What does that mean in the context of what I was talking about? I was making the point that he could have made more by signing with other teams in the NHL. Just because he could have made less in Russia doesn't negate that. He stay with us for 14 years which is rare in the NHL and shows loyalty. As for the "KHL has evolved" stuff - If you're trying to insinuate that he's going there for more money, we debunked that in another thread. That league is struggling due to Russia's economic woes and the hard cap for that league is being lowered successively for the next few years. He won't make more there for next year. His salary would have to be over 7.5 mill.


He hired an indepentent lawyer and talked to the player's union to try to find a way to leave without leaving us with the cap hit. Doesn't sound like disregard to me.


He's divorced, his ex-wife took his daughter back to Russia. He's only able to see her the summer months. I consider that a legitimate family situation. We don't really know the specific (rightfully), but I think you can imagine the effect of losing touch with your daughter.


Again, Incorrect in bold.


His cap hit was $7,500,000. His actual salary would have been $5,500,000 in a state with an income tax rate close to 42%. His actual take home would have been just over $3,000,000. I don't pretend to know what his tax rate in Russia will be next year, but I am confident his KHL salary over the next 2 or 3 seasons will be close to what he would have made in the NHL - which was an impossibility when he left in 2001. The other interesting financial tactic the KHL employs (which I've posted about before) is bonuses per goal, per assist, and per victory... This is a top 3 player the KHL has ever recruited, and the captain of Russia's Olympic team - if you don't think his salary, bonuses, and new endorsements will exceed $3,000,000 next year - I simply disagree.


At the end of the day, I understand and appreciate your optimism - but sometimes it is what it is. Pavel Datsyuk didn't do us any favours with this decision, and we won't be much better for it because AA, Bertuzzi and Mantha could see a little more ice time (assuming the last two even make the team). Maybe it makes pursuing Stamkos more important, but if we don't trade his contract away (which would come at a different type of cost) it's financially impossible - not exactly ideal.


Here's a different way to put it: If Datsyuk's family situation was so urgent that he needed to leave, why is he still going to play professional hockey next season? The commitment is largely the same? In my opinion, the money is similar and he would rather be in Russia - which is funny, because in most industries if I terminate my contract a year before it expires, to go do the same thing for a competitor - I would be facing a lawsuit. But in hockey, we are talking about retiring his jersey.

In Topic: Datsyuk Announcement to Officially Leave NHL

20 June 2016 - 09:42 AM

This is sad way for him to go because the discussion everywhere seems to about the contract rather than celebrating the NHL career of one of the best players to put a Wings jersey on.


I don't hold anything against Pav. He's been loyal to us. We had him at a 6.7 caphit 08-14, which is definitely a hometown discount and helped out the team financially. That should be considered in the picture. Also, from Holland's characterization of the situation and him firing his agent, it seems clear that Datsyuk wasn't aware of the rules involved when he signed the 3 year, 35+ deal.


I see many situations where it's not advantageous to trade the Datsyuk contract (trading youth, high picks) but I hope we trade the contract just so people don't blow this little blemish out of proportion; saying he crippled us by leaving the caphit. Especially if we were to miss the playoffs, I could foresee some blame being dumped on him.


I'd like to see his number retired, but I think Fedorov is more deserving and should be done first


The first statement in bold is incorrect - in his official retirement press conference, he was asked if he knew about the age 35+ rule when he signed the 3 year extension and the financial implications it would have on this team: His answer "Yeah I know, they explain me everything - Yes I know". (https://www.nhl.com/...7578/c-44232103) - fast forward to the 7:13 mark.


The second statement in bold is exactly why he shouldn't have his number retired, nor will the organization celebrate him much moving forward.


He was absolutely one of the best two-way players we have had on this team, and he left on the worst terms I can remember. To say that we offered him a hometown discount is generally true, but also a very ironic statement. We seem to forget that in 2001 - he came to a championship caliber team, to learn from the best coach in NHL history at a time when the KHL was incomparable in terms of player salary. In the 14 years he played here, he amassed over $80,000,000 USD - which actually would have made Russia the "hometown discount" had he stayed there his entire career.


The reason I can't side with him here, has more to do with the collateral effects this decision renders - more than him deciding to leave early. He signed a 3 year contract extension exactly 2 years ago, and apparently needed convincing to honour even the 2nd year before doing the exact same thing in Russia. That disregard toward the ownership/franchise that took a chance/invested heavily into him makes it clear that he absolutely doesn't care about the state of this team, or the fact that (1) unloading his contract is going to cost us a valuable asset or (2) if we fail to unload his cap hit, we cant sign an equivalent replacement. 


All in all, from the start of this post-season when he approved the release of an article that confirmed he was heading back home - which was an ill timed distraction - to the news of this weekend, I can't say any of it sits well with me. He failed to do what was so obviously the right thing in this case, and play out the final year. I would understand injury, or perhaps a legitimate family situation - but to simply go home (considering the impact it has on the Red Wings) a year early makes me feel like when he needed us, we gave him every opportunity and more to succeed and make his "family" a lot more money than Russia could have. But the KHL has evolved, and maybe now that he doesn't need us as much as he once did - his decision becomes one out of preference rather than respect.

In Topic: Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

09 June 2016 - 08:49 AM

From all I've read this is going to be a very disappointing off-season.


We're certainly losing: Datsyuk, Richards, Quincey.

We're probably retaining: Helm, Miller, Mrazek, Dekeyser, Sheahan, Marchenko, Pulkinnen?

We're hopefully adding: Radulov?


I like being optimistic, but this will probably be the worst Red Wings team we've seen in 25 years...


If the salary cap era has taught us anything, the only way you can build a dynasty is through the draft. LA, Chicago, St.Louis, Pittsburgh all have spent several seasons out of the playoffs to get where they are today... Toronto? I'd much rather have their team than ours today.

In Topic: Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

02 June 2016 - 03:33 PM

And yet after everything you posted shattenkirk is being shopped instead of sticking around even with 19th ranking for defence

Your down for shattenkirk , I'm certainly not ... To each his own

As for karlsson he's a point a game player and the best offensive defensemen, period ... He's -2 but also gets you 75-82 pts a season ... Not 40-45 , can't even compare them to eachother


Shattenkirk is being shopped because of the salary cap and not his play.


My entire point was that you can't compare players simply based on assets/flaws... Through that lens, Karlsson and Shattenkirk are very similar players - but we all know who is more valuable.