Nice GDT - But I think you (accidentally) granted Jonathon Bernier's biggest wish...
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WingedWheel91Member Since 11 Mar 2013
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Posted by WingedWheel91 on 16 December 2014 - 04:32 PM
I just had a good laugh at all of the experts on here who contributed to the "Fire Ken Holland" thread, but are now reluctant to part with any of our "overripe" prospects because all of the sudden "they like our team" too. And to everyone who understood that the current NHL landscape doesn't allow for any individual team to compete for the Stanley cup every year, please pat yourself on the back for defending him like I did.
As for a trade to "get our offense going" - We currently rank 6th in the NHL in GPG and 8th in PP% (all after scoring only 4 goals in 3 games in 4 nights). I think the question is "should we make a trade for a new goaltender who can make a save in a shootout?"... kidding.
Posted by WingedWheel91 on 07 July 2014 - 08:32 AM
I would certainly trade Tatar if he were the centerpiece of a package to acquire Tyler Myers. I understand what kipwinger is eluding too (sorry I don't know how to reply to posts with the quote above it) but I think you could also say the same about Myers - who in only 10 months older than Tatar by the way. If you were to compare Chris Pronger, Zdeno Chara and Jay Bouwmeester's first 4 seasons in the NHL, Myers certainy doesn't look out of place (with MUCH better numbers than Chara).
The point is that defenseman - especially "big" defenseman - take much longer to develop than forwards typically do - and when you consider that Myers has struggled the last 3 seasons, look no further than the team he is playing on. It should come as no surprise that his best 2 seasons were the only seasons his team made the playoffs during his career, and his best season (48 points as a Rookie) was also the teams best season (division winners).
Pronger did not have 48 points until his 7th NHL season. Chara did not have 48 points until his 9th NHL season. Bouwmeester has never scored that many points.
I don't really know who his partners have been throughout the years, but I'm willing to bet that he hasn't had one as complete as Kronwall. I can also tell you that when you look at his defensive game (because I am aware that Pronger and Chara are defensive minded players) isn't much further behind then these players as 24 year olds. He would instantly help our PP with his huge RH shot and our PK by finally having a player who can clear the front of the net.
KRONWALL - MYERS
ERICSSON - SMITH
DEKEYSER - QUINCEY
Is a much better top 6 than anything we had last year - don't forget or underestimate that Quincey was a much better player with Dekeyser than he was with Smith.
I would do Tatar, Kindl, Oullete, and a 2016 1st in a heartbeat for this player.
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Posted by WingedWheel91 on 03 July 2014 - 12:45 PM
I started the topic because I was annoyed of hearing about how bad we were when we didn't sign Boyle or Niskanen, or that no-one wants to play in Detroit anymore. To me, this represents an approach we as fans believe in that is simply unrealistic, because in the (hard) salary cap era - no team can/will compete for the Stanley Cup on a yearly basis. Not only does the hard cap hinder the money we can spend on free agents every summer, but the 7 year contract also limits free agency availability and allows the best players every year (who aren't ever elite) to receive inflated contracts because of the demand for them.
To be honest, I would rather have Quincey for 2 years at 4.25 Million than Niskanen for 7 years at 5.75 Million. Yes, Niskanen is a better Defenseman - but his contract is a representation of 1 decent year he had while playing the majority of his minutes with the top scorer in the NHL. When you consider he was on the 1st PP unit and took the place of Letang for most of the season, 46 points on a top 5 scoring team isn't really that fantastic.
Last year at this time (after losing in the 2nd round to the eventual Champs) we were ecstatic about the season we had and the kids who were coming up (we followed it up by adding 2 of the top 3 available free agents on July 1st) - this year injuries completely derail our season... yet we still make the playoffs... have even more kids develop in between... lose in the 1st round the best team in our conference... and the world is ending? What if we had gone for (arguments sake) 8-6 in the shootout instead of 5-9, we would have had the 5th most points in the conference and played a much easier first round opponent... What if we had won that series and then gotten back Ericsson, and a fully recovered Z? The outlook would be much different I'm sure...
For future reference - this is our lineup without Franzen, Weiss, Kindl and Quincey.
ZETTERBERG - DATSYUK - MANTHA
NYQUIST - HELM - JURCO
TATAR - SHEAHAN - PULKKINEN
ABBY - GLENNY - MILLER
KRONWALL - SMITH
DEKEYSER - MARCHENKO
ERICSSON - SPROUL
Please explain to me how we have nothing to be excited about?
Posted by WingedWheel91 on 02 July 2014 - 11:01 AM
What is wrong with you people?
You cannot and will not be in a position to compete for the Stanley Cup every year in a hard capped system. If you are lucky enough to make the playoffs every year in between then that's what you have to be excited about.
Plus the emergence of a very young core of players, who (even if only one) can turn into a superstar this season. You also have Mantha, Pulkinen, and 2-3 AHL Defenseman who look very promising already. If Kenny HAD to sign Boyle or Niskanen because we had no OTHER alternatives he would have jacked the offers, but he probably knows a bit more than we do about who we have coming up and wants to atleast give them a try
Posted by WingedWheel91 on 02 July 2014 - 09:58 AM
I am as pissed off as most Red Wings fans today out of our lack of ability to sign (any) big name free agents, and even more pissed off that our only substantial move was re-signing Kyle Quincey to a contract that pays him as much money as Jonathan Ericsson, more money than Johan Franzen and only 0.5 Million less than Nick Kronwall makes (still a top 10 defenceman in the league).
But as much as we can complain about Quincey, and predict that next season will be a complete disaster - I am seeing more and more tank for McDavid posts - I ask myself when did Matt Niskanen become worthy of a 7 year contract? Isn't Dan Boyle 37 years old coming off a 36 point season on a great team where he was a -8? Why did the world end when we didn't sign these two? Lets just try to use some perspective before we completely turn our backs...
Last season, in a 16 team conference - we finished 1 point behind 6th place PHI and 3 points behind 5th place NYR (who eventually played in the Stanley Cup Final) while having an historically bad (by our standards) record of 5-9 in the shootout. More importantly, we also had our top 3 forwards (when measured by salary) D, Z and Weiss miss 37, 37, and 56 games respectively. I hate to make excuses, but of the 6 teams in our conference that had more points than us last year, not a single one of them could relate to our injury situation (in terms of man games lost to star players). For ex. the top 6 scorers on the Boston Bruins all played in atleast 78 games, and 5 of them played in 80 or more - please don't tell me this would not have helped us or improved our position in the standings.
If we look ahead to next season - what do we have to be optimistic about? Well, we haven't really gotten worse since last year... No we haven't signed any big names either, but we still haven't lost anyone yet. (Alfie remains to be seen). Can you say the same about...
#1 BOSTON - Subtractions: Thornton, Iginla, Meszaros, Moore. Additions: None.
#2 PITTSBURGH - Subtractions: Jokinen, Vitale, Orpik, Glass, Engelland, Niskanen, Conner. Additions: Comeau, Ehrhoff.
#3 TAMPA BAY - Subtractions: Lindback, Aulie, Desjardins. Additions: Nabokov, Boyle, Blunden, Stralman.
#4 MONTREAL - Subtractions: Briere, Gorges, Vanek, Gionta, Blunden, Dubnyk. Additions: Parenteau, Gilbert, Malholtra.
#5 NEW YORK - Subtractions: Pouliot, Stralman, Richards, Boyle, Bickel. Additions: Hunwick, Glass, Kostka, D. Boyle.
#6 PHILADELPHIA - Subtractions: None. Additions: Jones.
The point here is that outside of Tampa Bay, the 5/6 teams that had more points than we did last season have not improved either - and to take it a step further, I certainly feel that Boston, Pittsburgh, Montreal, and the NYR have all regressed. In terms of teams within striking distance who have also improved, NJ and WSH certainly stand alone.
When you consider the possibility of a healthy team, the emergence and continued development of our younger players, the cap room and prospect pool we have to acquire pieces (which Holland MUST use at this point) and the lack of improved teams conference wide + number of teams in our division who have taken a step back (BOS, MTL, TOR, OTT,) I don't think the sky is falling as fast as it seems.
Posted by WingedWheel91 on 24 April 2014 - 12:20 PM
So how does everyone feel about Todd Bertuzzi tonight?
WOW - are you guys kidding me? Have you not watched or understood our offensive struggles this entire series?
Between our constant turnovers, abysmal forecheck, and lack of any sort of net front presence (see our PP%) our team - for the first time in a long time - has looked VERY young. Quite simply, our roster in games 2/3 (w/o Alfreddson who does make a difference) cannot compete with the Bruins. I understand Jurco is a very quick and talented player, but quickness and talent wont translate into offensive success when your chasing the cycle around each shift. Bertuzzi immediately helps the forecheck, immediately helps the PP and most importantly provides a veteran presence to this line of youngsters.
I know he is not the saviour (I think we already know who that is) but I'm wondering why people who have watched this team play all series, are upset about this change. You can't remove any of the penalty killers and you aren't taking Legwand out... I hope Bert destroys Marchand tonight and finally earns us some respect (just count the cheapshots),
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Posted by WingedWheel91 on 16 April 2014 - 07:53 AM
I don't know why everyone is up in arms over this report.
At the time of the trade, April 1st 2013 - the Blue traded a 1st round draft pick, 22 year old Defense prospect Mark Cundari, and 26 year old Swiss league goalie Reto Berra for Bouwmeester.
In hindsight, I agree we certainly offered a better package with players who are contributing at a much higher level today - but understand that at the time of the trade, Gustav Nyquist and Tomas Tatar had combined for less than 10 points to that point in the season, on a team that was not in a playoff position. From a Calgary perspective, they probably questioned how much these undersized forwards would help them battle within their very tough division.
Did Feaster take the right deal? In hindsight, obviously not. But I'm sure at the time of the trade, with the market for Defenseman as bad as it was/is, there would have been more than a handful of members on this site who would have been on board. Funny how it works.
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Posted by WingedWheel91 on 16 July 2013 - 01:54 PM
The fact aside that you probably couldn't list 60 defenseman who are better than Kronwall, that top pairing would get eaten alive. DeKeyser has played less than 20 games at the NHL level, and Yandle is just a few steps above outright bad in his own zone. For that matter, there are quite a few who would take Kronwall over Yandle.
The proof is in the pudding: Kronwall and Ericsson did just fine as a first pairing.
I apologize I didn't really clarify what expectations I based my interpretation of Kronwall as a second pairing guy were, which was a championship winning team.
Yes, Kronwall would be a suitable #1 on more than half of the teams in the NHL - and maybe more, but I believe for us to truly be considered a cup favourite he's better suited with Ericsson on the second pairing.
His best years I noted - were the two years we played in the Stanley Cup Final, played on the second pairing... Now this isn't to compare Yandle or whoever we could find and Dekeyser to Lidstrom and Rafalski, but I believe Kronwalls defensive inefficientcies don't match up to the best forwards in the world.
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Posted by WingedWheel91 on 09 July 2013 - 10:55 AM
1. Trade Samuelsson to NYI for a 7th round pick. (With $22 Million in Cap Space, a once 30 goal scorer with one year left at $3 million isn't the worst gamble)
2. Trade Kyle Quincey, Brendan Smith, Teemo Pulkinen and a 1st round pick for Keith Yandle. (I can hear the groans already, but hear me out - Kyle Quincey is useless and makes $3.7 million, Brendan Smith is certainly going to make ATLEAST $1.5 Mllion next season, which already covers Yandle's cap hit. Teemu Pulkinen is another undersized winger, which we now have an abundance of as an Eastern conference team. The first round pick is going to be 25+ and we have a solid group of prospects already. So the real trade comes down to Brendan Smith vs Keith Yandle... We know who the better player is, and Yandle is only 2.5 years older with a reasonable cap hit. I have always felt our problem last season was offence from our defence, and now we solve that. Imagine what this group of forwards can do when they don't have to spend 25 seconds of each shift in there own zone.
3. Sign RFA'S
4. Sign Ron Hainsey as our 6th D Man.
5. Trade TooToo for whatever you can.
Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Abdelkader
Franzen - Weiss - Alfredsson
Nyquist - Helm - Tatar
Miller - Andersson - Eaves
Yandle. - Dekeyser
Kronwall - Ericsson
Kindl - Hainsey
And There's your 23 man roster.
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Posted by WingedWheel91 on 06 July 2013 - 10:58 AM
With the depth at forward this year, Brunner would be in the same position he ended last season, playing RW on our 3rd line. If you remember, Brunner scored his first 10 goals playing with Zetterberg in the first 19 games of the season getting close to first line minutes. When the rest of the league started to get their legs back and the quality of play increased, he scored only 2 goals in the remaining 25 games from the third line. The playoffs showed a better GPG rate, but 5 goals in 14 games isn't worth gambling on a 3 year contract when he hasn't played an 82 game season yet.
So, back to the original question which was what are we losing? Considering that Tomas Tatar will be taking his spot, an equally fast but better two-way winger, the answer is almost nothing. I understand depth, but there is no room in the top 6 for Brunner and certainly nowhere on the checking line. You could argue that with Tatars cheaper contract, the fact he is 5 years younger and plays with Grit, this is probably an upgrade. Oh, and not to mention Tatar also proved to be a pretty good playoff scorer last year in the Calder Cup.
Posted by WingedWheel91 on 03 July 2013 - 11:25 AM
I wish the series against the Chicago would be seen in a different way. The Wings joked away a 3:1 series lead the Hawks played their 4 worst games of the season once they've turned it on the Wings didn't even have a chance - this team is not close to Chicagos level.
Big misconception for me.
Game 5 - we were outplayed in Chicagos building.
Game 6 - we outplayed them big time, had a lead after 2 and got screwed on a penalty shot call among others. (Don't get me started)
Game 7 - we lost in overtime in Chicago on a deflected shot.
So how exactly did we win 3/4 games before this stretch, make it close in two of the next 3 without Helm, Dekeyser, and Bertuzzi and still not be considered on there level?
Don't forget that we also played a tough stretch of hockey for 2 weeks to end the season, went 7 against Anaheim (a lot of travel) and then another 7 to the best team all season.
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Posted by WingedWheel91 on 03 July 2013 - 10:47 AM
Only there is not going to be much help coming through the ranks in the next 2 years that will address the weaknesses of this team. There are not that many big, crash the net scorer's around. Datsyuk and Zetterberg is already on the decline. Sooner or later these missing pieces must be addressed if this team is serious about contending for another Cup before the retirement of the aforementioned. Now would be the time to take a chance on Clarkson or Lecavalier, not three years from now.
Funny how you mention constructive discussion in a thread created in critique of people's frustration with Holland's inaction.
The idea of the thread was also to look at the bigger picture. Living in Toronto, I can understand the frustration from fans who haven't seen there team in the playoffs in 9 years, or who sign Mike Komisarek, Jeff Finger, and Mikhail Grabovski to long term big money contracts. Or trade Tukka Rask for Andrew Raycroft, or how about Tyler Seguin and Dougie Hamilton for Phil Kessel. These are moves that make it legitimate for a fan base to rally for a new GM.
In Detroit, we have been to the playoffs 22 years in a row. Won Cups and Presidents Trophies in both the non cap and salary cap eras and adapted from being a very good high spending team, to a very good cap strickened team. This year, in a "transition year" after losing Lidstrom, Stuart, Hudler and not cashing in last summer - we weren't supposed to make the playoffs. What happened? We took the Cup Champs to the brink and ran out of gas after two seven game series. Oh, and our farm team won the Calder Cup.
Not bad for a rebuild, I'm sure the Leafs fans would take that season after 9 of missing the playoffs and stockpiling draft picks every year. Which is another thing, how on earth have we been to the playoffs every year... Usually finishing with home ice advantage, while trading most of our 1st round picks, and somehow manage to draft a Calder Cup champion in the process? Probably our terrible GM....
Posted by WingedWheel91 on 03 July 2013 - 10:20 AM
Been awhile since I've replied to something here, but I have watched this forum closely for several years. I am a bit upset with our team this time, and forum bullies/ self-proclaimed experts aside, I feel it's necessary to chime in, or at a minimum, share my opinion (whether you want it or not). I think this thread is perfect for that! I don't think it's overreaction for real fans of this team to be upset with the path the Red Wings are headed down. I feel that star players will cost this team more than others in part due to the sad state of our city, and the fact we don't fill our stands anymore. The economy alone says that until some major support/ excitement is generated for this team by the people of Detroit, getting some super-star players into the Big D is going to be difficult. KH needs to pull a shocker deal off just to generate excitement. Let's face it, if you care enough to post something here, you are a fan, and aren't going anywhere, but that base is starting to dwindle, not grow like in the mid to late 90's and early 2000's... KH used to really shake things up. He even proved that this team was capable in the cap era in 2008. Well, it's several years later, and the team is still hanging on the backs of Dats and Hank. I believe Holland can't get those superstar players in here, and as good as our farm team is, they can't move up due to Sammy, Bertuzzi and Cleary. Personally, their run in this playoff, or even that they got there was a fluke. So here's the big question: What's it going to take? You need fans and sponsers to make money, you need money to generate excitement and interest. Hank and Dats are not getting any younger. Where's it going to come from? Overreaction, no. Concerned, very.
I appreciate the response, but I think the star players are the problem and not as much the city. Lecavalier himself said he loved Detroit and would definitely consider coming here, so he met with our GM and was informed that we were not interested in signing a 33 year old, big, slow, centre who has certainly seen a decrease in production to a 5 year contract. It was the right move.
Although Dats and Hank aren't getting any younger, the rest of our team is. In 2014-15 we will roster one of the younger teams in the NHL, which also means your are going to be one of the lower payroll teams and have the ability to overspend where you see fit.
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