Mrazek = Blue chip
Mantha = Blue chip
Jurco = Blue chip
Sheahan = Bluechip/graduated
Nyquist = Bluechip/graduated
Tatar = Bluechip/graduated
I'd venture to say Ouellet, Sproul, Marchenko, Backman, Pulkkinen, and Athanasiou are also all blue chip, or at least very close to it. That's 12 prospects i would consider highly valuable. 9 if you don't want to count our graduates. Also, Hockeys future also still ranks Dekeyser as a prospect, even though I don't consider him one, bc when you think about it he's barely 24. Still very young. There's a reason are prospect pool is ranked so highly. The only teams really ahead of us in terms of having a number of bluechip prospects are teams like Buffalo, NYI, Tampa, Winnipeg, all teams that have been bad for a while. And for most of those teams there is a huge drop off in talent level after their blue chips. With us that is almost never the case.
And yes he's serious. As am I. Everyone is quick to say get rid of Holland but then cannot cite one good replacement. I challenge you to do this. My point was not to say "look at all the possible options!" it was "look at how crappy our options would be if we didn't extend Holland". Fresh eyes are good and all, but I'm not going to throw out a great GM whose made a few low-risk mistakes the past few seasons just for the sake of bringing in a nobody or loser just because there eyes are "fresh". If there was good GM available looking to make a change or takeover an original six or big budget team, or we had someone in the organization ready for the reigns, I might be singing a different tune, but there aren't any of those people available right now. I also don't think cutting off the head of the snake is a good thing to do in the middle of a delicate retool when all is said and done.
EDIT: Larkin is also our highest pick in what? Like a billion years? Might consider him bluechip as well.
I guess I have a different definition of 'blue chip'. I reserve it for the best-of-the-best which in this case would mean NHL-ready. Again, I'm not saying that the Wings don't have any or that the system is horrible or that the sky is going to come crashing down. I'm saying that most teams trading top 6 forwards or top-pair defensemen are looking for NHL-ready prospects and based on most of the scouting reports I've read, the majority of the guys you mentioned all have 'work needed' to be ready for the NHL game. Again, not that they won't develop the skills necessary, but it's not there - yet. Can you call Xavier Ouellet a 'blue-chip'? Maybe. He's probably at least another AHL season away from significant NHL ice time, though. Personally, I'm very interested to see what happens with Mrazek. He's still on his ELC and is locked up with another year beyond that, but everything lists him as 'NHL ready' now. Howard's got a long contract, though, one that will burn through Mrazek's RFA years. Seems like something's gotta give there...
As far as naming a GM replacement, it's useless. It wouldn't matter who I named, it wouldn't be good enough. GMs get replaced in the NHL, a lot, and by guys who many fans don't know until they get there. Again, I guess I just disagree that the only guy good enough to run the Red Wings is Holland. Way back when, I had heard a rumor that the next Wings GM was going to be Yzerman, but they wanted him to 'prove' himself with another team first. Tampa extended him by four years so his contract will be up the same time as Holland's now...
You are contradicting yourself. You are upset that the Wings are sitting back, yet calling out Chicago and LA as perfect examples of the way it should be done. Like I said above, it took Chicago 11 years to complete their rebuild In that time I don't recall any major UFA signings until the end.
Based on this logic, if you consider this year 5 of the re-build (which is a HUGE stretch), then are you saying you would be okay with it taking the Wings until 2020 to become contenders because that is what the Blackhawks did? But that goes against your point of sitting back and waiting just waiting for talent to develop.
If you want to read it as contradiction, have at it. I understand that the starting points are different, the Wings are a playoff team - not a team vying for a lottery draft pick. I agree, trading everyone for draft picks and starting over would be a bad idea, but then Holland should fill the holes. That's what Bowman did when he took over Chicago in 2009 and it's what Lombardi did when he got to LA in 2006. Chicago had to completely retool their roster after winning the Cup in 2010 due to cap issues. They kept plugging, though, and won another Cup, have made more changes and are a perennial contender. LA made at least a couple high-profile changes after winning in 11-12 and they cashed in again last year and Lombardi has been praised as a model GM. Can you rebuild from the ground up? Sure. Do you have to rebuild that way? No. In fact, what percentage of either of those teams was originally drafted by either LA or CHI during their last Cup wins? 50%, just over? Both Lombardi and Bowman mix solid draft/develop strategies with trades and FAs. Look at the Wings roster going into the season, based on NHL.com's projected lineup 20/23 were drafted or originally signed by the Wings (Weiss, Cleary & Gustavsson are the only ones not from the system). That's great to see that it can be done - but that defines 'sitting back and just waiting for talent to develop'. And, yes, I'm against it because it does take a long time to see any pay off... It's a credit to the Wings (and Holland) that it's worked this long, but as DickieDunn points out - it's a ticking time bomb...
Actually, you said: "The Wings don't have the guys that other teams want, no matter how rosy we make our prospects sound. We have a ton of depth- and role-guys, but not the excess of blue-chip prospects teams in rebuild mode want in return and it becomes easier and easier for teams to turn down a trade with Wings that revolves around Johan Franzen and Riley Sheahan for a top-tier guy..."
The bolded part is a very clear opinion and I responded to that. I listed examples of players that it was reported that other teams definitely wanted and asked about. I didn't take anything out of context. The part where you wrote after: "but not the excess of blue-chip prospects teams in rebuild mode want in return" Is a grammatical jumble (also, why are we only trading with teams on the rebuild?). If you meant to say that the wings have a couple blue chip prospects, but not enough to spare, that kind of goes against the bolded part. But, if that what you meant, I still disagree.
That's us up front in 2015 and probably until 2017 baring any trades or UFA pick ups (Glendening for Miller if we let him go after his contract, Helm and Abby will likely be resigned after 2015-16). That makes Pukinnen at least an excess high prospects, There's no place for Andreas Athanasiou, Larkin, or Janmark until at least 3 years (if Datsyuk retires).They're really good prospects and that might make them considered excess blue chips. It is a hard argument, though, because there is no real definition of blue chip and we don't know fully what other teams are asking for. I think its at least safe to say that people would want our 15th over all pick, Larkin.
On defence, it's a much easier argument. We have 7 roster players signed. DD, BIg E, Smith and Kronwall seem to be solid for the longer term. We have 5 high prospects (Marchenko, Sproul, Oulette, Backman, Jansen). Some can and will be traded or will make roster players expendable.
What I said was in response to a comment which suggested nobody wanted to trade with the Wings. My comment was that the Wings did not have what teams were looking for in NHL-ready prospects. Would a team want Dylan Larkin or Andreas Athanasiou? Absolutely. Will they give up a top-6 NHL forward for one of them and a draft pick? Not likely. Could we get a top-6 forward for Anthony Mantha and a draft pick? I think we could... [Of course, I'm not suggesting that we should...]
Again, if you want to call everyone a blue-chip, that's fine. I think of blue-chips as NHL-ready (at least) or, if they are NHLers, top-6-ready. Based on NHL.com's projected line-up, 2 prospects will be in the top-6 (Tatar & Nyquist) with Jurco taking a 3rd line spot. I'm interested to see how they use Mantha in training camp. Based on what I've read, he should be ready for second line action as you suggest, but Babcock usually doesn't like to give that kind of responsibility to a rookie if he doesn't have to. I tend to think Mantha will end up spending at least a little time in GR because of it. Beyond that, most of the guys with even an inkling of top-6 potential are 2+ years out. Will they develop into blue-chippers? Maybe.
I wasn't trying to make it sound bleak, just that the Wings don't have everything that everyone is looking for...
Taking a team like TB or Dallas and improving it is a lot easier than what Holland is trying to do. I'm not sure how people trying to compare the three of them can't see that. Let me know when either of them guide a team to the Cup. Holland is juggling a time bomb right now, eventually it's going to blow up and the wings are going to crash, but so far he's done a hell of a job keeping the team from falling off into the league basement while overseeing a team that had the core age out, half the payroll cut, then start seeing the new core aging out, and he still has several good to great prospects coming up. The one concern I have is a lack of top line center potential, unless Larkin turns into one soon.
On the TB/Dallas comparison, yes and no. On the surface, yes, improving a bottom-feeder is 'easier', but ultimately all three GMs face similar challenges, especially during the salary cap era. Again, the point of my original comparison wasn't to say one is 'better', but to suggest that Holland had taught these guys how to be creative and work themselves out of tough situations, which, to date, they both have...
I couldn't agree more that Holland is playing with fire. I think he's relying too much on developing everything internally. As I said previously, 20/23 will be guys drafted or originally signed by the Wings. There has to be balance...