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Fred_Bear

Member Since 27 Feb 2014
Offline Last Active Yesterday, 04:11 PM
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#2536285 Regner: Next year could be Babcock's last

Posted by Fred_Bear on 16 September 2014 - 10:14 AM

2 stanley cups + 2 olympic golds + most wins as a wings coach + somehow managed to get last years limp penoose of a team into the playoffs for the 23rd year in a row + proven at every level and in  every way with every other team in the league watching for the slight chance Holland mucks things so they can swoop in to steal him away..... Give him his 5 Mill... make him the highest paid and be proud to have him.

 

You never let a proven player like Hossa slip away like we did and you should never let a proven #1 coach slip away either. We aren't exactly the preferred destination of free agents at this point in time and if you subtract Babcock its even less of a draw. Babcock + Health = Success and more players wanting to come to the new budding Detroit Red Wings!

 

When and where did he get the 2nd Cup?

 

I'm sorry, but I'd respectfully disagree. Babs is a great coach, but several people have said it, these guys are paid to perform and rewarded for it. At a certain level, though, two guys can't get credit for the same job. Is Holland putting the right players on the roster or is Babs extracting more from less? My point is - if Holland is putting the 'right' guys on the roster, Babs isn't getting enough out of them and, conversely, if Babs is getting the Wings into the playoffs with a sub-par squad, then Holland isn't doing his job. If everyone in management is doing their jobs, how are we a 'borderline' playoff team? Holland already got an extension and credit for his job...

 

If Babcock feels he 'deserves' to become the highest paid coach in the NHL, I hope Holland does let him walk. I'm not trying to take anything away from Babcock, but he did take over the defending President's Trophy winner in 05-06, a team which had made the playoffs 14 consecutive times, and three years later he won his only Stanley Cup. I'm not trying to say he's not successful or that he doesn't get a ton out of his players. But a good coach in a great organization has to be that much better to stand out.

 

Compare Babcock's Wings to Bowman's Wings - 9 playoff seasons each - 1 Cup (Babs) to 3 Cups (Bowman) - 2 President's Trophies (Babs) to 3 for Bowman - Bowman has an Adams' while Babs does not - Babs has an edge in regular season win pct. but in the playoffs - Babs 0.542 to Bowman 0.642.

 

Again, not saying Babs isn't a solid coach, but the Wings won't fold as an organization without him.




#2534486 Holland signs 4 year extension with wings **MOD Warning Post 130**

Posted by Fred_Bear on 18 August 2014 - 01:19 PM

 

To preface my own point, none of us are actually in the room when an offer is made. So other then hearing rumors and speculation, none of know for sure what was offered or what was turned down.

 

Rumor has it that Holland did try to sign some of these UFA's, but once the term/$ amount got ridiculous with the exception of Suter he walked away which I am personally extremely thankful for, even in the case of Suter (no thank you 14 years).

 

Also, I don't get why people speak as if Holland hasn't gotten a UFA in years. The fact that he didn't sign Boyle, Niskanen, or Erhoff this season is not a big deal, and each player had his own reason of going where they did. Last year the top UFA's were LeCavalier, Iginla, Alfie, Fillpulla, Weiss, and Clarkson, and he signed Alfie and Weiss two of the biggest out there. I'm sure some people are reading this saying "you're saying those are big names lol" to which I respond "you're right, buts that free agency now". This years class was "headlined" by Niskanen and Stasny, middle of the road to good players being overpaid to contracts that teams are going to be looking to buy-out or trade away in a couple years (In the case of LeCavalier it didnt even take 1 full season). Unless you are giving a vet a couple years, anyone at the top of a UFA class is going to be overpaid.

 

I understand that nobody is in the room, but you can't give the guy a pass on the bad because of it and only 'see' the good when someone signs. Ultimately, Holland's track record in FA signings isn't that good the last several years.

 

List of Holland's big signings (~$2M+/year) since the last Cup:

08-09 - Marian Hossa (1yr - not re-signed)

09-10 - None

10-11 - None

11-12 - Ian White (2yrs - not re-signed)

12-13 - Jordin Tootoo (3yrs - compliance buy-out)

12-13 - Carlo Colaiacovo (2yrs - compliance buy-out)

13-14 - Daniel Alfredsson (1yr - not re-signed as yet)

13-14 - Stephen Weiss (5yrs - played 26 games and scored 4 pts in year 1)

14-15 - Kyle Quincey (2yrs for a player Detroit was ready to walk away from)

 

The Suter/Parise snub was at least 'understandable' given the same money/term from Minnesota and the connection the players felt. Having Niskanen, Boyle, and Erhoff walk away from potentially more money in Detroit (in some reports) is more concerning. The fault isn't all on Holland, for sure, but top management should be looking in the mirror and trying to determine how to get better regardless of where you lay blame.

 

And, as someone else points out, FA isn't the only key to success. You have to draft well, too. So how many top-6 forwards or top-4 defensemen has Holland picked up in the last six-seven drafts?

 

2008-09 - Gustav Nyquist

2009-10 - Tomas Tatar (maybe)

2010-11 - None

2011-12 - None

2012-13 - None

2013-14 - Anthony Mantha (projected)

 

Drafts are much harder to judge especially for a draft-and-develop team like Detroit. The Wings do have a couple kids who still project well, too. But a lot don't. They are bottom-six / bottom pair grinders. It's drafting by a team/GM which relies on supplementing his home-grown talent with pick-of-the-litter FAs. You can't draft grinders and then not come through on the FAs...

 

The Wings haven't been a team which settles for 'serviceable' over the past few years. Is that what Detroit is becoming? 




#2487900 ESPN says....

Posted by Fred_Bear on 28 February 2014 - 05:03 PM

It's nice to think about a Vanek or Moulson, but I tend to agree - the price will be too high and they aren't likely to stay in Detroit (at least not without the Wings giving up some of their youth). I'd be very interested in what they could swing for Andy MacDonald, though, if the Isles may only asking for a 1st rounder. If Holland could turn that into a conditional 1st based on the Wings locking MacDonald up to a contract, that would give the defense a few more options moving forward.

 

As for Kesler, I hope not. His injuries have kept him on the top-6-to-checking-line border his whole career. He certainly has upside, but Vancouver is paying him soundly to be in the top-6 and I think the Wings have better options for the cost. We need an effective wear-'em-down third line to go into the playoffs and I'm still holding hope that they give Steve Ott a look if he's available. Much rather 'rent' Ott than overpay and get stuck with Kesler...