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Son of a Wing

Member Since 09 Aug 2003
Online Last Active Today, 05:43 PM
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#2535226 2014 Offseason League Signings and Trades

Posted by DickieDunn on 30 August 2014 - 08:03 AM

Damn there goes another guy I would have liked on a cheap contract Sheldon Brookbank signed to a PTO by the Calgary Flames this Calgary team is going to be something else wow http://www.chicagotr...0829-story.html


If by so.ething else you mean one of the worst teams in league history, then yes they are.


#2535167 Holland signs 4 year extension with wings **MOD Warning Post 130**

Posted by BottleOfSmoke on 29 August 2014 - 12:08 PM

Frank I don't even know what to say in response to you sometimes but I can't resist...

The Bruins are not being "punished" for success or having a great goal scorer. They legally evaded the cap and deferred their bonuses to this year by choice. I suggest you do some research there...

So in your opinion... To attract free agents...we need to not do well...draft high...get some good young players...even though you just claimed no one knows how young players will ever turn out...or was that just relevant for our current prospects...whatever benefits your argument at the time I guess... OK.

Where...in Zeus' butthole...did you come up with this idea...and in what universe did that make sense...

PS. I may have had a drink...


This post is approved by BoS.

And Zeus's butthole.


#2534938 Holland signs 4 year extension with wings **MOD Warning Post 130**

Posted by kliq on 26 August 2014 - 11:40 AM


It's an impossible question to answer, of course. The Wings four biggest 'holes' over the past couple of years have been lack of a power forward, a second-line center, replacing Lidstrom, and increased 'grit' from the bottom lines. Have any of them been adequately addressed through draft, trade or free agency? I'm not suggesting that a 'perfect' solution is always available, of course, but going into the current season, we still don't have an experienced 'power forward', Weiss is a year into a contract with 26 GP and 4 pts as a 'second-line center', replacing Lidstrom is, of course, improbable if not impossible, but we haven't even brought in a defensemen from outside the organization, and Abby led the team in hits (59th in the league). Acting like we don't have areas to improve in doesn't make them go away... In the past few years, something could have been done.

Saying "Sign UFA's" is easy, but the reality of the situation is that in 2014 the players available in UFA are typically average/above average players who are paid like they are borderline elite, I don't believe these types of players are necessarily the answer in the post cap era, in this era I believe the answer is grooming your own home grown talent and supplementing it with UFA's when the right player for the right price is available, otherwise these types of moves can be absolutely crippling to a team. We are coming off a year where Matt Niskanen & Paul Stastny headlined a class, nothing against them as players but we aren't talking Suter/Parise here. The reason why you cant answer the question is because that magic player was not there. The closest person is probably Suter, but signing anyone to a 14 deal right before a CBA was about to be negotiated would have been extremely risky and I am glad we didn't land him.

 

We took a gamble on Weiss, and while he does have years to come around, I think this shows you how just signing a UFA doesn't fix everything.

 

I find it ironic that you use LA and Chicago in your points of comparison, but you are frustrated that we are not winning now. Chicago and LA did not become elite team overnight, they were very bad, for a very long time. LA didn't make the playoffs for 7 years, until there most recent winning way started (i'm talking 7 years to get back in to playoffs, not going deep or winning cups), Chicago (with the one exception of '02) didn't make the playoffs for 11 years.

 

We are in a re-build, people need to accept it. The difference between us and others of the past is that we just aren't horsesh*t doing it. We could go all in and trade Kronwall, Zetterberg, Datsyuk etc. but what they are doing is hoping that our kids can become great, while the vets are still elite or close to it, plus using these vets to give guidance to the kids that are coming up.  Its almost as if sustaining our winning ways to a degree is hurting us, because its resulting in people failing to see the re-build. I'm sorry, but I dont want to be Edmonton, or what Chicago and LA were and be very bad for a very long time. Having a quick turn-around where we dont need to just unload everyone, and are still making the playoffs in an era of parity where anything can happen, is a nice way of doing it!

 

Lastly, as far as comparing Holland to Yzerman and Nill, this is fair buts lets wait a couple of years. Other then a final 4 a few years ago, Yzerman hasn't done anything yet. Since that final 4 TB didnt make the playoffs, and then were swept first round. I admit they appear to be going in the right direction, but its results that matter.

Nill....same thing. I love the moves he is making, but at the end of the day all Dallas has accomplished is an 8th seed where they were bounced first round.

Please don't take this as me putting either of these guys down, the moves appear to be good ones, but lets wait and see.




#2534934 Holland signs 4 year extension with wings **MOD Warning Post 130**

Posted by vladdy16 on 26 August 2014 - 09:37 AM

It's great to make the playoffs, but let's win some Cups... Yes, 23 years in a row is AMAZING, but the Blackhawks have 2 Cups in their current run, the Kings have 2 Cups in their current run. Yes, we have 4 during ours and 6 appearances. Remember, in our first six years of the streak, we had 0 Cups and only 1 appearance... Creating an elite, winning culture is great and maintaining it will be increasingly difficult in the current NHL. I question whether of not Holland is the guy to do it. Look at how Yzerman has adapted in Tampa Bay or at how Nill has adapted in Dallas, why hasn't Detroit made any changes?

 

 

 

I don't think anyone is arguing against constructive criticism, but the absolute vitriol that spews on this board sometimes usually is frustrating most all level-headed fans and we're getting a little trigger happy.

 

Another thing I'm getting a little tired of is comparing Holland to Yzerman and/or Nill.  Apples and oranges.  The Lightening and Stars had almost nowhere to go but up to begin with.  They also aren't facing the same adversity as Holland - little cap space and an unwillingness to trade with the Wings.  These are pretty sizable barriers to contend with.  Also, neither has the pressure from the fans that the Wings organization has.  I'm not a Holland fanboy by any means, but let's be reasonable.

And since neither Nill or Yzerman is available to Detroit, what's a better option than Holland at this point?




#2534899 The Pavel Datsyuk Show

Posted by number9 on 24 August 2014 - 07:52 PM

https://www.youtube....h?v=OmGu6AVFRgc

 

I really like this one. The guy who made it matched the music perfectly to Datsyuks goals. Gets me pumped for hockey season. 




#2534906 Holland signs 4 year extension with wings **MOD Warning Post 130**

Posted by krsmith17 on 25 August 2014 - 08:11 AM

I really wish people would stop with this, "well we haven't done ANYTHING in the past 5 years", blah, blah, blah... How many times does it have to be said and how the hell is it not obvious to some of you that the Detroit Red Wings are in the midst of their second rebuild in the past two decades, without once missing the playoffs?... That is not that impressive at all... I mean, most teams in the league have done that haven't they?... NOPE, not even close... The Wings streak is at 23 consecutive seasons without missing the playoffs, after that there is the Sharks at 10, Penguins at 8, Bruins 7, Blackhawks 6, Kings 5, Rangers 4, Blues 3, and no other team has made the playoffs more than the past 2 seasons straight. That is absolutely insane when you actually think about it... To continue to make the playoffs for this long, through two rebuilds is nothing short of astonishing, and I'm willing to bet that the Wings make it at least another 7 years to beat the Boston Bruins 29 year playoff streak from '67-'96.

 

People that do not see the brightness at the end of this tunnel, that has been the past 5 years, are pessimists to their truest form. How can you not be thrilled as a Red Wings fan, not only because of the "stupid, not-at-all-impressive streak", but because of all of the talent that we have coming up over the next few seasons.

 

To say that there is no way that Jurco can turn out to be as good as Datsyuk is very bleak in my opinion. Jurco has accomplished more than Datsyuk had accomplished at the tender age of 21. Jurco has already got his first taste of NHL action and played quite well for a rookie, while Datsyuk wasn't even drafted until he was 20 and didn't play his first season in the NHL until he was 23. They both have great hands, obviously Pav gets the edge there though since he has better hands than anyone that has ever played the game. Jurco definitely has the size advantage, as he is 3 inches taller and already closing in on 200 lbs., whereas Pav is around the same now but came into the league as a rookie somewhere between 175-180 lbs.

 

I also think that Nyquist has the potential to become somewhat of a Zetterberg lite. Nyquist is slightly behind Zetterberg in production at the same age but he does have a slightly better point percentage. In Zetterberg's first two seasons he put up 87 points in 140 games, 0.621 points per game, while in Nyquist' first three partial seasons, he put up 61 points in 97 games, 0.628 points per game. Gus has the same drive and determination that makes Hank such a world class player, and he also seems to have the same type of leadership qualities. They're both approximately the same height and weight when they were the same age, while Hank has put on some muscle over the years, Gus still has plenty of room to grow as well.

 

The Wings definitely have a few potential future stars up front in Nyquist, Jurco and Mantha, but to go along with that I think we have much more depth coming than we have ever had before. Sheahan, Tatar, Pulkkinen and Athanasiou are all potential top 6 players, and Nastasiuk, Bertuzzi and Callahan could be great 3rd and 4th line players. I'm not quite sure where Janmark, Nosek, and Frk will fit in but they're quality players as well. Then you have guys like Larkin and Turgeon that we just drafted that I think could be along their way in about five years as well.

 

On the back end we also have a few potential future stars in Smith, DeKeyser and Sproul as well as guys like Ouellet, Backman, Marchenko and Jensen. And of course between the pipes, we have Mrazek coming along quite nicely, and he could be a future top 5 goalie in this league.

 

I realize that all of this, as of right now, is just "potential" but with as many high end prospects that we have, at least a few of them have to turn into quality players. We have one of the best prospect pools in the entire league because we have one of the best general managers in the league, as well as top scouts and development teams in the league (credit to Holland for putting this management team together). I'll never understand some of the constant negative attitudes in here, but to each their own. What a boring forum this would be without you guys lol.




#2534897 Holland signs 4 year extension with wings **MOD Warning Post 130**

Posted by Dabura on 24 August 2014 - 05:33 PM

Talk about overhype ... Nyquist could turn into a star but it's also possible him only becoming a top 6 contributor and for me that's good enough.neither Nyquist nor Tatar will turn into Z or Pasha. It's funny reading how the team keeps winning although the best they've done is barely making the playoffs and not even sniffing at the third round dice almost 6 years. The sabers will have a very dangerous team in a few years and the isles where held back by an incompetent management and a penny pinching owner. The reality is also really simple the Holland will need some homerun drafts and prepare the Wings much better for the post Z and Pasha era, than he did with the post Lidas one.

 

Are you actually serious?




#2534692 The Pavel Datsyuk Show

Posted by number9 on 21 August 2014 - 02:45 PM

Just watched all 69 minutes and 14 seconds of this at work. I'll blame you SOW when I'm unemployed.




#2534375 What are you listening to? 2?

Posted by TheXym on 16 August 2014 - 09:41 AM

Lately I've been on a big Muse binge, learning some of Chris Wostenholme's bass lines.

Hysteria (live)

http://m.youtube.com...h?v=6ONt9LBXxXg

Knights of Cydonia (live)

https://m.youtube.co...h?v=b88HagxuXi4

Supermassive Black Hole (live)

https://m.youtube.co...h?v=oAjv7ze2EDk


#2534530 Holland signs 4 year extension with wings **MOD Warning Post 130**

Posted by number9 on 18 August 2014 - 08:56 PM

Losing Matthias has had zero impact. He's not good.

 

He made the NHL and we didn't re-sign Bertuzzi. I wasn't commenting on Matthias as player, but on the trade being an insignificant one for us.

 

Pre cap we were. Now were not and the team is on a steady decline. We also use to sign notable free agents.

It was typically nyquist Tatar or mantha as the starting price from what I heard and yes if that's what it took only one of those three plus different prospects it should've been done(more so Tatar or nyquist over mantha IMO). But it would depend on the player were recieving and contract status etx etx

 

Yup. And precap worlds are not the same as post cap world bud. Spending is a whole lot more conservative now. You can't compare the teams actions now to their actions then. Those teams operated under different rules.

 

And we haven't been on the decline since our trading ended either. Our trading culture ended with Lang and the lockout in 04, and that was coming out of 1st and 2nd round exits in 03 and 04. That continued till 06 and ended in 09. We improved just fine and won a cup without significant trading or selling the prospect pool, in fact it was prospects we had developed who helped contribute to that cup.




#2534527 Holland signs 4 year extension with wings **MOD Warning Post 130**

Posted by kliq on 18 August 2014 - 08:34 PM

 

Ehrhoff, Niskanen are a big deal because they would have fixed an ever increasing hole since Lidas left.

 

Holland and some fans need to realize the time where players would come here for less are over. The Wings nowadays are just one of the teams asking for their service and if the money isn't comparable or hence better they won't sign. Overpayment and taking risks are part of a  GMs job, UFA is also known as overpayment day but guess what ? I would have given Suter, Parise even 15 years if it means we are getting to see another cup for Mr. I, Pasha and Z after they've done so much for this former TOP destination in the NHL.

 

Whats the point of having capsapce if the top guys aren't hitting UFA anymore or you aren't going to use it t o your  advantage ? Add to that it's not like the capspace has been used wisely this off-season either, overpayment for 2 players and third on the cusp of getting re-signed which doesn't leave a lot for a local hero (Danny D) is that smart cap management ? I don't think so.

 

Also Holland didn't take a risks and still lost a trades by a landslide (Poilé absolutely schooled him) so losing a big trade is much better than getting schooled by another gm, as did Yzerman two years ago..

 

As for McDavid the competition is fierce and tough you need to outtank: Buffalo, Florida, Winnipeg, Edmonton, New York, Calgary and maybe even Phoenix but keep in mind the second pick is also a great one Eichel will be a star in this league too.

 

I think you and I have a HUGE difference in opinion on the skill level of Erhoff and Niskanen.

Niskanen has played in the NHL for 7 seasons and his points totals are the following: 26, 35, 15, 10, 21, 14, 46.

 

His 46 points last season statistically seem more like an outlier then a true reflection of his ability. This should be a huge red flag to GM's and I am glad Holland didnt give in to the pressure and outbid Washington, I dont want a guy for 7 years for the kind of money that Washington threw at him. If an impact D-man was available in UFA (say a Shea Weber caliber D-man), I would be the first person to say sign him to a long term deal for top dollars, but Niskanen is not that guy. He would not be the difference in us winning a cup or not winning a cup. He may make us slightly better for maybe a few years, then his cap hit would hinder us a few years into his contract.

 

Ehroff is 32 and appears to be regressing. I believe (I could be wrong) he saw the year Niskanen had offensively playing with Crosby/Malkin and co. and signed a one year deal hoping to up his value so next year he can sign a huge contract. Also, not a guy I feel puts us over the top. I would have loved if we got him at 1 year, 4mil but from what I have heard he wanted much more term/$ to play for the Wings. Glad we didn't overpay.

 

Whats the point of having capspace? So when your core become UFA/RFA, you can sign them to long term deals rather then lose them. I would be totally fine with signing the guys above to 1 year deals to see what happens, but that wasn't an option. I don't want a stupid signing now to hurt us in 2016 or 2020 etc. when we need to re-sign guys like Nyquist, Tatar, Jurco, Mantha etc.

 

The Nashville trade.......it may end up being a horrible trade, I'm not going to argue either way, but you cant know that now. In 3 years we will know if that trade was bad or not.  


 




#2534472 Holland signs 4 year extension with wings **MOD Warning Post 130**

Posted by kliq on 18 August 2014 - 11:02 AM

 

But the Wings tried to sign many of those guys. Are you implying that the "Good move" was to sign an inept GM who cannot sign the players he targets? Makes no sense.

 

To preface my own point, none of us are actually in the room when an offer is made. So other then hearing rumors and speculation, none of know for sure what was offered or what was turned down.

 

Rumor has it that Holland did try to sign some of these UFA's, but once the term/$ amount got ridiculous with the exception of Suter he walked away which I am personally extremely thankful for, even in the case of Suter (no thank you 14 years).

 

Also, I don't get why people speak as if Holland hasn't gotten a UFA in years. The fact that he didn't sign Boyle, Niskanen, or Erhoff this season is not a big deal, and each player had his own reason of going where they did. Last year the top UFA's were LeCavalier, Iginla, Alfie, Fillpulla, Weiss, and Clarkson, and he signed Alfie and Weiss two of the biggest out there. I'm sure some people are reading this saying "you're saying those are big names lol" to which I respond "you're right, buts that free agency now". This years class was "headlined" by Niskanen and Stasny, middle of the road to good players being overpaid to contracts that teams are going to be looking to buy-out or trade away in a couple years (In the case of LeCavalier it didnt even take 1 full season). Unless you are giving a vet a couple years, anyone at the top of a UFA class is going to be overpaid.




#2534420 Holland signs 4 year extension with wings **MOD Warning Post 130**

Posted by number9 on 17 August 2014 - 12:37 PM

"Tanking" implies losing on purpose.  Whether it's players underperforming, coaches using the wrong players or strategies, or management making moves to make the team worse, it's done with the intent of finishing lower in the standings and getting a higher draft pick.  Draft lotteries were invented to reduce the chances of this strategy working.  It was done more often in other sports, where high draft picks almost always become impact players right away.  The Indianapolis Colts' "Suck for Luck" season is one of the most recent examples.

The Red Wings did not tank to get Steve Yzerman, and there are two obvious reasons why: 1, the Wings had been terrible for almost two decades, making the playoffs twice in 17 years and only winning one series.  They didn't lose on purpose in "82-'83, they just couldn't win.  2, the Wings were heavily targeting local product Pat LaFontaine with the #4 pick, but he went #3 to the Islanders.  Yzerman was the consolation prize.


 

Tanking has been around for much longer than salary caps.  I think it's tougher to do today, between the cap and roster/player movement limitations.

 

Also, I think your "ready age" numbers are considerably off.  http://www.sbnation....es-age-analysis

 

That article seems to conclude most forwards peak around 24, which is precisely the one of the ages I cited. How is that considerably off at all? The article states that 21-22 forwards show good production in the NHL, but don't get played because their defense is under-developed, aka they aren't ready.




#2534315 Holland signs 4 year extension with wings **MOD Warning Post 130**

Posted by Jesusberg on 15 August 2014 - 01:05 PM

Things I will give Ken Holland full credit for:

 

-Restocking the prospect shelves. Let's face it, the drafting was pretty hit and miss during the early to mid 2000's. Kenny doesn't get full credit here, but he was part of turning around the prospect pool.

 

-Being smart with prospect progression. I know a lot of people hate the whole overripe thing, but Nyquist and Tatar are examples of players who have greatly benefited from gaining experience in the minors.

 

-Signing younger players to solid deals. I think his "bridge deals" are a real positive. Guys like Zetterberg, Filppula and Kronwall all got them, now it's guys like Tatar and most likely Nyquist next year. He seems to be good with the younger player's deals.

 

-Rebuilding on the fly. Most teams need to tank, sell off their assets and completely alter their team. Detroit's managed to keep their superstars, and nearly all of their promising young players while staying competitive. Whatever your definition of competitive is, Detroit hasn't been a basement dweller - that's a plus in my eyes.

 

Things I don't think are Ken Holland's fault:

 

-Missing out on big name free agents. The salary cap has changed the playing field in the NHL, but I also think that the attitudes of players have changed. It's almost as if they want teams to chase them. The whole Suter thing was mind-boggling to me. You're a GM and you get on a plane to go talk to a player? Guys wanting to play in their hometowns, with their best friends, etc. is out of Ken's hands, I think. Does he need to change his approach, perhaps? It's a situation now where players want three things: comfort, comradery and cap hit. The one thing Kenny can control is giving out money, so luring players here is going to be a matter of over payment, I think.

 

Things I want to slap Ken Holland for:

 

-Misguided loyalty to veteran players. The list of players could go on and on, but we know the deal here.

 

-Bringing back familiar talent. I think you can also accuse Kenny of playing it "too safe" here. Bringing back talent to take the places of prospects he feels aren't ready yet. It's kind of a double-edged sword, but at times I think Kenny holds guys back too much. It was great for Gus and Tatar to stay down, but then the team also had that mess at the beginning of the year with Bert, Sammy and Cleary taking up spots.

 

-Poor judgement with trades and contracts. The Quincey and Legwand trades still bother me. Giving out 3 million dollar, NTC contracts to 35+ year-old vets, and a 4.25 million dollar contract to a pylon.

 

All things considered, I don't think there's another guy for the job right now, but that doesn't mean I think Kenny is totally effective in his post. He's done a lot of great things for this team, and recently some not-so-great things. If he could just alter his approach to trading, I think he would be totally set.

 

This team is entering a situation where the star players will be done in a few seasons, and there's quite a bit of talent waiting in the wings to take their place. The question is, which guys are going to become legitimate superstars, and what is Kenny going to do with the excess talent? I think Nyquist, Mantha, Jurco and Tatar all have potential to be star forwards on this team, DeKeyser, Ouellet and Sproul strike me as the future of the blueline, but who knows what will happen when they're not insulated anymore. Kenny's going to have some big decisions to make with the talent on this team, and they're going to determine if this entire "rebuild on the fly" process was really effective or not.




#2534265 Holland signs 4 year extension with wings **MOD Warning Post 130**

Posted by number9 on 14 August 2014 - 03:24 PM

http://www.usatoday....nsion/14052063/

 

 

 

Since taking over as Red Wings GM in July 1997, Holland, 58, has put together a team that has won more regular-season games (746) and postseason games (115) than any other NHL team.
"I'm proud of our 23 years of making the playoffs, and I'm excited about challenges going forward," he said. "We've been a team, the last two years, that's been a bubble team. I believe, if you get in and you get hot, it's wide open.
"Our goal going into 2014-15 is, hopefully, we can compete with the top teams in the East, with Boston and Tampa Bay, and Montreal, which went to the final four. We've got a tough division. We're trying to compete for a playoff spot, be a contender.
"At the same time, we're also trying to develop young players to build a core much like we did in late '80s, early '90s that carried us for a decade, and then again in the late '90s. I'm optimistic and excited about our younger players, that they will continue to develop into Detroit Red Wings players."
In a statement released by the team, owners Mike and Marian Ilitch cited Holland's success, saying that "Ken is regarded as one of the premier executives in the National Hockey League and has been instrumental in the success of the Red Wings over the last two decades. Marian and I are extremely pleased that he will continue to lead our hockey club over the next four years.
"We feel strongly that stability is key to the success of any organization, and having this new agreement in place with Ken is important to the organization and its future."