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Son of a Wing

Member Since 09 Aug 2003
Offline Last Active Today, 10:18 PM
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#2675641 Fixing this mess....

Posted by marcaractac on 10 May 2016 - 05:41 PM

Ya I think the best thing is to give mantha athanasiou Larkin tons of ice time and let them develop and hopefully turn out to be really good players which we all believe they can be

I'd stay away from stamkos cause he will cost 10+ per and has blood clot issues and if he truly is demanding that he has to be a center I say pass

Okposo as well I'd pass on , would cost 7 I believe and I think he needs a star forward like he had in Tavares to make him a better player , and didn't he dissapear in the playoffs? I'd just want to be sure we give the right player(s) a 7+ cap hit

Think our best route is to let the kids play and to make some trades for defensemen and maybe prospects with potential and hopefully find a kid who didn't have a chance somewhere else and play well for the wings, I don't think this is the best ufa class and we should save our money for someone else at another time

I'd love a backes but I see him returning to the blues and I'd love lucic just so we can have someone who can strike fear into other teams players but I'm not willing to give him a 6x6 type deal ... Maybe 5 million x4 since we have some kids with cheap salaries now but I know lucic will get more on the market

Don't know about you guys but I'm anxiously awaiting draft day since I believe they'll be a ton of trades and names we wouldn't suspect to be traded to be in fact moved

 

If Stamkos has interest in coming to your team, you open up that chequebook. He is a franchise center in his prime. He would nullify the loss of Datsyuk immediately, as well as be our best player by a long shot. Imagine our pp. 


Listen to Holland's presser again, he actually names Okposo as a player that could change the style of the team.

Without guessing who won't be back, would you all be excited if he landed Radulov, Okposo and Yandle? Of course, trades would be needed to have the cap, but would that fill needs? Since Datsyuk says we need Radulov, maybe if Holland lands him, Datsyuk comes back for his year??

 

This leaves us severely lacking center depth and a top dman. I don't think Yandle is the answer at all. Would love to see Okposo as a Wing though. 

 

For me, the dream is Stamkos, Trouba and Okposo. Easier said than done, of course. But if they can get Trouba or another top dman at the draft via trade, it would greatly help attract UFAs come July 1st. But finding a center is far more important than bringing in a guy like Radulov. Even if it is a band-aid solution at center to take some of the pressure off of Larkin and AA for a year or two. Obviously Stammer would give us a permanent one-two punch down the middle with he and Larkin. 




#2676307 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by kickazz on 20 May 2016 - 02:13 PM

Yet Nyquist didn't improve and sank to Abbys production. We've got a $4.75 million contract scoring 17 goals and your concern is the guy who scored 19 and does everything else. Didn't you criticise this idea in Mantha's thread? "If a guy scores and doesn't do much else vs someone who can do everything else".




#2676209 Mantha

Posted by kipwinger on 18 May 2016 - 09:27 PM

Good point, and let's not kid ourselves, we missed a guy like Franzen this year big time. Imagine how well he would have contributed to offensive zone time, and as a result, total offense this year.

If Mantha becomes another Franzen I'll be thrilled.


#2676177 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by kickazz on 18 May 2016 - 01:09 PM

The Abdelkader salary argument doesnt even make sense anymore.

Nyquist has a higher cap hit than Abdelkader and had two less goals and one more point than him.

Nyquist - $4.75 mill. 17 goals 43 points.
Abdelkader - $4.25 mill 19 goals 42 points.

Tell me again why this is an issue? The only issue I had was the length of term. Oh wait maybe the issue is Abdelkader actually hits his opponents, kills penalties and stands up for his teammates.


#2676166 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by krsmith17 on 18 May 2016 - 11:22 AM

Zero chance we land Stamkos and Okposo... I think there's going to be a lot of disappointed people here after free agency. Get the pitch forks ready and prepare your Holland sucks barrage now...


#2676154 The Holiday tradition: 2016 Draft thoughts.....

Posted by krsmith17 on 18 May 2016 - 09:50 AM

Bean in the 1st and Day or Johansen in the 2nd would be unbelievable.


#2675986 Grand Rapids Griffins Playoff Thread

Posted by krsmith17 on 15 May 2016 - 08:19 AM

I agree Son of a Wing. I'm stoked to see what Sproul has been able to do this season, especially so far this post season. And it's not just the points he's putting up, he's looked very good in all three zones. Steady and poised in the defensive and neutral zones, and very dangerous in the offensive zone.

As far as Mantha goes, and wanting him to score more goals... He's 6th in the league with 10 points, and has played a game less than anyone else above him. He's also tied for 10th in the league with 4 goals. 2nd to 9th are all tied with 5 goals, all playing one more game, with the exception of Josh Anderson. The number one spot goes to Bertuzzi with 7 goals in 8 games.

Mantha has also been engaged in the play more than I've ever seen. He's forechecking and backchecking just as hard. I've really liked what I've seen from him so far in these playoffs, and he's getting rewarded with the points.


#2675249 Fixing this mess....

Posted by krsmith17 on 06 May 2016 - 07:33 AM

I don't understand the statement, "at that rate it will take 23 years to even field a full roster"... I think 1-2 players on average making it per draft for any team is pretty standard, and I don't think any team ideally wants to bring in any more than 1-2 rookies per year...

 

I don't see the purpose of only listing the players we drafted that are currently on our team. If your trying to figure out our success rate in drafting I think a more effective way is to list all the players we drafted in that time frame that are currently or are going to make the NHL...

 

2001 - 0/7 < Traded 1st round pick >

2002 - 4/10 (Hudler, Fleischmann, Filppula, Ericsson) < Traded 1st round pick >

2003 - 2/8 (Howard, Quincey) < Traded 1st round pick >

2004 - 1/8 (Franzen) < Traded 1st & 2nd round picks >

2005 - 3/9 (Kindl, Abdelkader, Helm)

2006 - 1/7 (Matthias) < Traded 1st round pick >

2007 - 2/5 (Smith, Andersson)

2008 - 1/6 (Nyquist)

2009 - 3/7 (Ferraro, Tatar, Nestrasil) - (*Jensen*, *Callahan*) < Traded 1st round pick >

2010 - 4/7 (Sheahan, Jarnkrok, Pulkkinen, Mrazek)

2011 - 5/9 (Jurco, Ouellet, Sproul, Quine, Marchenko) - (*Backman*) < Traded 1st round pick >

2012 - 1/6 (Athanasiou) - (*Frk*, *Paterson*) < Traded 1st round pick >

2013 - 2/8 (Mantha, Janmark) - (*Nastasiuk*, *Bertuzzi*)

2014 - 1/7 (Larkin) - (*Turgeon*, *Holmstrom*)

2015 - 1/6 (Svechnikov) - (*Saarijarvi*)

 

I think that would be considered pretty solid drafting if compared to other teams, especially considering we have never picked higher than 15th overall in that timeframe, we never had a first round pick in 8 of the 15 years, and our average first pick was 39th overall...

 

Also, like PVD mentioned, our current team is stocked full with homegrown talent. Last season, of the 29 players that played a game with the Red Wings, 22 were drafted by Detroit, another 3 were signed as free agents straight from College / Europe. Some have / will move on next season, and they will be replaced either by more home grown guys or via trade / free agency. Either way, a team made up of 85+% of home grown talent have to be doing something right at the draft table. We have been very good at drafting and developing and we have a pretty good stable built, however we do need to start trading some of these assets to upgrade in some areas, mainly defense. Whether or not Holland can get it done, we'll find out soon enough...




#2675279 Fixing this mess....

Posted by Buppy on 06 May 2016 - 04:28 PM

Disagree. We are getting worse because we are drafting worse. Go back a page and look at all the top 20 Dmen taken after the 1st round. Guys that we could have taken in the 1st etc.... Look at all the euros we have drafted that haven't even panned out at the AHL level.

Yes I agree with you on the building through the draft should not mean we are 100% drafted players. In fact we have too many guys on our team that we drafted overall. 12-15 draftee's should be the max. The balance then picked up via trade/UFA which is becoming tougher overall. But just because something is tough doesn't mean we shouldn't be doing it.

...

So wait, your original argument was that we were relying too much on the draft, now you're saying that we didn't make the right picks, but then in the next paragraph you go back to drafting too much.

 

I don't think you even have any clue what it is you want to say.




#2674963 This hits the nail on the head......

Posted by krsmith17 on 03 May 2016 - 10:49 AM

Four years is an eternity in professional sports? Seriously? In what sense? I'd love to hear your rationale on this...

 

"The ship" is not sinking. How difficult is it for some people to understand that we are in the process of a "rebuild"? We are and have been in the process of transitioning from the vets to the youth over the past few seasons, and we've still made the playoffs every season since then. But that's not good enough. People want us to fade from the Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Kronwall era to the Larkin, Mantha, DeKeyser era all while winning Cups every year along the way. It's completely unrealistic expectations.

 

I'm sure not a single Red Wing player, management or fan is at all happy with the end result of any of the past five or so seasons. However, the players, management and most reasonable fans understand that there is a process we need to go through in order to get back to the top. Some think we should completely "tank" and others are quite happy to see us continue to make it into the playoffs every year, continue developing the young talent, and eventually we should be in a good enough position to make some moves and turn this team back into a contender. I believe that should start this season. We should make a trade or two to upgrade our defense, continue to transition from the vets to the youth, and squeak into the playoffs for the final year at the Joe. After next season is when we should start to see some huge changes getting ready for the new, highly controversial Little Caesar's Arena. In short, I think this team has a very bright future, I am very happy with where we're headed, but no I am not content with just making the playoffs every season, and neither is anyone else...




#2674988 Calder finalists

Posted by WingsallTheway on 03 May 2016 - 02:54 PM

People are actually upset that Mcdavid was a finalist instead of Larkin?

 

Mcdavid has just as many points in half the amount of games....

 

edit: Mcdavid had more points in half the amount of games




#2674557 Fixing this mess....

Posted by kliq on 29 April 2016 - 09:42 PM

Yes the average size is most likely overstated. But even if it is the average size is still bigger than the listed/overstated size of Helm. 6-1/205 (overstated) is still bigger than Helm 6-0/195 (overstated). Which again means Helm is under the league average in size. .

 

Now size in and of itself means nothing. Where it does mean something is in applying pain on the other teams D. If I am a defensemen playing vs the RW's who would I rather be checked by? Helm at 6-0/195 or Martin at 6-3/205? Martin is a much more physical player and larger player. Guys like him cause the other teams players to tire and get gun shy. That is what increases mistakes.

 

Why are you changing the numbers? You did the same thing when talk about Patrick Sharps stats. You just make-up/change things to suit your argument.

It's 6'1, 201, not 6'1 205. I will say again, with margin of error, Helm is the mean.

 

I do agree that size does not mean everything (I wouldn't say it means nothing, it definitely helps). I would still rather have Helm then Martin if the $ is the same. But I think Helm will want about 3mil per, for about 4-5 years which I dont want the Wings dishing out.




#2674527 This hits the nail on the head......

Posted by Aethernum on 29 April 2016 - 06:47 PM

An impatient fan base that expects a Cup every year is what causes teams like Anaheim to fire respected coaches after four straight division titles. He's absolutely dead on about this: If you expect Detroit to compete for the Cup every single year, then in today's league of parity, you are out of your mind. 

 

Making the playoffs every year is as about as reasonable an expectation as you can get. After that, everything is up for grabs. Look at this year: Maybe you'll be the Tampa Bay Lightning and get an easy first round matchup, or maybe you'll be the Chicago Blackhawks and have to face the St. Louis Blues. Would anyone here be disappointed at a first round exit with the quality of play that we saw in the Chicago/St. Louis series? I seriously hope not. Sometimes it just doesn't fall your way.

 

I don't disagree with Holland on this. 




#2674530 This hits the nail on the head......

Posted by kliq on 29 April 2016 - 07:07 PM

An impatient fan base that expects a Cup every year is what causes teams like Anaheim to fire respected coaches after four straight division titles. He's absolutely dead on about this: If you expect Detroit to compete for the Cup every single year, then in today's league of parity, you are out of your mind. 

 

Making the playoffs every year is as about as reasonable an expectation as you can get. After that, everything is up for grabs. Look at this year: Maybe you'll be the Tampa Bay Lightning and get an easy first round matchup, or maybe you'll be the Chicago Blackhawks and have to face the St. Louis Blues. Would anyone here be disappointed at a first round exit with the quality of play that we saw in the Chicago/St. Louis series? I seriously hope not. Sometimes it just doesn't fall your way.

 

I don't disagree with Holland on this. 

 

Excellent post. Parity is as strong as I can ever remember. Just look at the first round, everyone was pretty ready crown either LA, Chicago, Anaheim, or Washington the champs before the playoffs started and after 1 round 3 of those 4 teams are gone. It's just a different NHL now a days.

 

Also, why is this thread even here? A link to a random/ridicoulas article about how Holland is sabotaging this team can go into one of the other million Holland sucks threads on this board.
 




#2674500 This hits the nail on the head......

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 29 April 2016 - 03:31 PM

Nope. But true. Please I am not attacking anyone personally, so don't take it that way.

No worries. I didn't feel attacked.

 

But the "excuses" comment is a general sentiment I see around here all the time. To me it says, I don't care about the real constraints with the way that the league is now, I just want cups, I want to be the dominant team that we were before the cap. To just right off these realities as 'excuses" is to not look at things realistically.