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Son of a Wing

Member Since 09 Aug 2003
Offline Last Active Yesterday, 08:58 PM
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#2537547 2014 Preseason Thread

Posted by RyanBarnes! on 29 September 2014 - 10:22 AM

 
Nobody's talking about his offense translating.  I don't think it will either.  Drew Miller doesn't produce points in the NHL either but that hardly means he's one dimensional.  Like Miller (or Prust, or Maltby) Callahan can skate, play special teams, and is defensively responsible.  So he's already miles ahead of the bozos you seem intent on comparing him to.  I'm also curious to know why you'd think he's similar at all.  He's not used in any way like those guys are.  The only thing similar is that they'll fight once in a while.  Other than that Mitch Callahan is nothing like those guys.  When a coach as good as Blashill is using you on the PP, PK, and giving you top six minutes, and leaving you on the ice at the end of games you're surely a better player than some fourth line agitator...regardless of how often you do or don't score. 

I think you might be underestimating the skill level of Torres, Tootoo and Asham slightly. They put up much better totals in juniors than Callahan and had they stayed in the AHL they would probably been on the PP too. It is true that they have a limited role in the NHL but there is certainly more to it than the skill variable. When comparing Callahan to Maltby I was trying to convey his "weight class". I know you dont care much about that stuff but that was my intention.


#2537529 We're Down One Goose

Posted by kliq on 29 September 2014 - 12:12 AM

Do you really thin that other teams run each other in practice? Hits in practice lead to more injuries, not fewer.

 

LOL, only here would this even have to be said.

 

I get that this freaking out over a few minor injuries is simply a conditioned response to the past few years. But at the end of the day, we have only had 1 real injury which was to Datsyuk, and it should only keep him out around 4 weeks. Its not like Zetterberg broke his leg, Datsyuk tore his ACL, and Howard suffered a hernia. People are getting worked up over nothing.

 

I also don't think that Colton Orr (or someone like him) is the savior for this team. You have a guy like that, people still will hit our our top guys, someone will just also fight Orr afterwards. Its the NHL, guys who hit are going to hit regardless of who is on the other team. If people were scared to fight guys like Orr, they wouldn't be fighting so much.

 

People have referenced Darren McCarty. Its not like having McCarty stopped Lemieux from smashing Draper face into the boards, all it did was create many fights afterwards. Having Todd Bertuzzi and co. did not stop Steve Moore from throwing an elbow at Marcus Naslund's head, it just led to a fight, and obviously the incident. Philly being one of the toughest teams in the NHL did not stop Scott Stevens from knocking out Lindros over and over again. My point is, guys are going to hit. I dont believe having Orr or someone like him on the Wings would have stopped the hit on Datsyuk, or other normal hits being thrown.




#2537528 We're Down One Goose

Posted by DickieDunn on 28 September 2014 - 10:04 PM

I think it has something to do with practice...
 
Think about it: the Wings practice against the Wings - we aren't an overly physical team and in practice we would be even less physical than in a game. If you practice going to the dirty areas and into the corners over and over again in practice without any physical impact when you get to a game situation you do the same but get destroyed. I think our players are just generally not totally expecting huge impacts - look at Sproul, Datsyuk recently who were surprised by hits they typically wouldn't expect from practicing against a soft Wings team. 


Do you really thin that other teams run each other in practice? Hits in practice lead to more injuries, not fewer.


#2537508 We're Down One Goose

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 28 September 2014 - 01:36 PM

People seem to think this only happens to us. And there are many comments about our players being weak pansies who are made of glass, etc. It's kind of understandable since most here focus on the Wings and don't follow other teams to the same extent. The whole league is like this, though. I think it's just the effects of the faster, bigger league. Here's some other teams' current situations to give some perspective:

 

Pens: Malkin still not skating, Crosby missed the beginning of camp, Beau Bennett has a knee injury, Robert Bertuzzo possibly has a significant injury

Kings: Derek Stepan out with broken fibula.

Philly: Giroux (lower body), Timonnen (blood clots) Couturier, Emery injured, Bellemare as well (who's he?),

Leafs: Bozak, Robidas (leg), Clarkson all injured. Tallinder also (PTO)

Rangers: Malone out(hip flexor)

Carolina: Jordan Stall (broken leg)

Bruins: Cambell still hasn't skated, Camara (illness), Pasternak (probably wouldn't have made the team)

Lightning: Druin (fractured thumb)

Avalanche: McGinn, Bordeleau (both had back surgery) minor injuries to Gabe Landeskog, Max Talbot and Ryan O'Reilly and Jan Hejda

Columbus: Horton will miss start of season (back pain)

Canadiens: Eller injured plus a lot of prospects: McCarron, Grimoire, Connor Crisp, Dalton Thrower, Stefan Fournier and Jack Nevins

Wild: Harding out indefinitely (foot injury)

Ducks: Palmeiri, Shea Thodore




#2537381 Datsyuk 2nd degree separated shoulder injury - out approx 4 weeks

Posted by kipwinger on 26 September 2014 - 11:14 AM

 

The team lacks physical/mental toughness as well as has a dearth of skill. But I believe that you have to upgrade with what's available to you. If skill is available than you upgrade skill. If toughness is available then toughness should be upgrade, hell if there is a way to upgrade both than by all means do both. 

How exactly are you going to upgrade your special teams, puck movement from the back end, scoring depth, or shoddy goaltending with "toughness"?  The kinds of guys that Ryan Barnes is arguing for (e.g. goons) don't play special teams, don't move the puck well, don't limit shots on the goalie, and don't provide scoring depth.  They maybe...maybe...could help keep other guys healthy...maybe.  But that's it. 

 

This whole argument that we've been bad because we're not "tough enough" completely overlooks the fact that there are a lot of SERIOUS problems with our team that have nothing to do "toughness".  Fortunately many of the problems outlined above are resolved by adding Nyquist, Jurco, Tatar, Mantha, Ouellet, Sproul, and Marchenko (none of whom are goons, but all of whom are skilled) and removing/demoting Kindl, Lashoff, Quincey, Cleary, Bertuzzi, Sammy, etc (some of whom are tough, none of whom are skilled). 

 

By adding more skill, our real problems are likely to get solved.  By adding goons you solve zero real problems and only address this "toughness" deficiency which isn't really tied to anything tangible anyway.




#2537311 Datsyuk 2nd degree separated shoulder injury - out approx 4 weeks

Posted by number9 on 25 September 2014 - 05:37 PM

 

Monahan made the Flames and could focus fully on hockey, nobody took cheapshots or borderline hits against him and guess why ? People FEAR McGrattan as every cheapshot artist = rat should. The point of the matter is this Pasha is by far the best player on this team he is wasting his last years on a team that doesn't stick up for each other and where the FO doesn't bring in guys that could help out. It's not just about fighting it's that whole "anti physicality" mindset that I'm questioning Downey said it best himself "hey you can hit our players but if you try to take advantage of star/weaker/smallish players someone sneaky will come around the corner..."

 

The last player who took liberties with Kessel was a behemoth called John Scott nobody else has done so, because nobody wants to answer to Colton Orr, Frazer McLaren. Phaneuf told Crosby to keep to clean his act up or else he would hit him in the same manner...nobody on our team is doing that and maybe just maybe there is already too much complacensy...

 

Ok Scuderi laid out a clean hit fine, where are the guys that say "ok it's preseason and they are playing this like regular/playoff season in terms of physicality let's hit Maataa, Kunitz ...in the same manner" there is freaking nobody. Things like this are also a bounding experience for team they rally around each other and know everyone heas each others back.

 

I love fighting. I like the spectacle. I love that extra dimension it gives to the sport. It's truly unique. I wish the instigator rule was not in place. I loved when their was a heavy weight matchup of Probert v. Domi, and seeing who was going to win the belt from the other. I loved that if anyone touched Yzerman Probie would immediately turn into the hulk and smash their face in, no matter what the consequences were for himself. I loved when McCarty turtled Lemieux, because I literally wanted vengeance and blood for what he did to Draper.

 

But here's why I think your argument stinks Frank. Everyone who I know that is pro-fighting (including myself) whines about how - since the instigator rule - the enforcers ability to protect and scare off the rats is almost completely diminished. Fighting USED to protect stars to an EXTENT, but not anymore, and that's what pisses off pro-fighting advocates and why everyone calls for the repeal of the instigator penalty.

 

So please, don't act like having McMeatbag on the fourth line/bench is going to protect Datsyuk. All that guy can do is instigate a revenge fight at a later time. And Scuderi can easily just say no at that time, and then we have another possible Bertuzzi-Moore situation on our hands.

 

If you want the culture of protective fighting you have to:

 

1) repeal the instigator rule

2) find a guy who can drop the gloves AND play top line minutes

or

3) time-travel back to the 1980s

 

Fighting these days is used to possibly change the mood of a game and/or to seek vengeance. And it puts fans like you and I in the stands. That's it.




#2537301 Datsyuk 2nd degree separated shoulder injury - out approx 4 weeks

Posted by DickieDunn on 25 September 2014 - 03:51 PM

Serious question.  I don't read other hockey boards, so I don't know the answer to this question.

 

Do other forums have as many posters who don't believe fighting and enforcers have a place in the game?  It seems like we have many, and I wonder how much of that has to do with Kenny Holland and the Wings philosophy of finishing last in fighting majors every year for the last 10+ years?  

 

Seems like the attitude of the team and management has rubbed off to the fanbase.

 

With that said, I know many Wings fans who can't stand that philosophy and root for the team in spite of it.  

 

 

There's a difference between having a guy who will fight and can do other things and having a talentless meatbag who can do nothing but punch people.




#2537282 Datsyuk 2nd degree separated shoulder injury - out approx 4 weeks

Posted by Mckinley25 on 25 September 2014 - 01:41 PM

If McGrattan played for our team, Scuderi would have hit someone like Miller or Cleary instead.
 
At least I would, in his position.  


I would hit the player carrying the puck.


#2536313 Nice article on Mantha

Posted by evilmrt on 16 September 2014 - 02:53 PM

Soooo apparently if Mantha plays less than 10 NHL games, his entry-level deal doesn't even start until next year...

 

Source

 

 

That's quite the loophole...

 

There is absolutely no way KH is going to not take advantage of the "free year" of development. 

 

So, 9 games is all we get this year, folks. 




#2535987 Rule Changes for 2014-2015 Season

Posted by BottleOfSmoke on 11 September 2014 - 03:57 PM

@Proteautype: NHL bans spin-o-ramas in shootouts and penalty shots. You're next, dipsy-doodlers.

@Proteautype: The problem was never with spinning, understand. But when it got to o-rama levels, something clearly had to be done.

:lol:


#2535958 How Do You Like Your Equipment?

Posted by Echolalia on 11 September 2014 - 11:31 AM

So I've been playing hockey since I was a kid.  Growing up, my coaches always used me as more of a defensive forward, because I was a taller, lankier kid with long arms in high school.  I also got used to playing with hockey sticks that weren't cut, so the butt of the stick often came up to my eyes/nose when I stood the stick up (ie really long reach, excellent poke-checking capabilities).  This is the way I've had my hockey sticks ever since, even though the role on my teams has gradually shifted to more of an offensive playmaker/scorer type.  The biggest issue I've had with my game is that my shot is fairly weak, and it takes me longer than I'd like to set up for a shot.  In order to remedy this, I tried cutting to a much shorter stick, with the thought that my lower hand will be closer to the blade of the stick and I'll be able to put more muscle into my shots now, and with a shorter stick the puck will be closer to me and I'll be more ready to shoot the puck from stick-handling, instead of having the puck another foot out from my body and having to take an extra step to pull it in before shooting with the longer stick.

 

The stick is now cut so the butt comes up to my collarbone when I'm on skates, so its a good 6 to 7 inches shorter than what I'm used to.  I've played one game with it like this and I can't believe how different the experience is.  With a shorter stick, it forces me to have more bend in my knees and at the hips just to keep the blade flat on the ice, so I find that my skating is more explosive.  Previously I was more of a back-is-straight kind of skater and most of the work came just from my knees.  I also find that I am way tougher to get the puck from in tight spaces.  There were several times in the last game where I was able to fight through poke checks or resist stick-lifts, or come out of a scrum of guys in the corner and still maintain possession of the puck.  I owe this to the fact that I'm able to put more of my weight through my lower hand and into the stick, and my body overall is closer to the ice, and thus harder to move.

Stick-handling/deking I would say has gone back a step, although I was doing much better with toe-drags.  With the longer stick, my range for stick-handling was pretty wide, and I could go wide left to wide right on a defender quickly, and be out of his range on both sides, so getting around guys was pretty easy if I could just find the holes. Now its a bit more of a challenge, and I need to change my game to be more comfortable stick-handling closer to my body, and relying more on foot speed.

Defensively I didn't feel that much of a disadvantage.  My range is definitely smaller, but I think the increase in speed that I got from playing with more bend at my knees and hips made up for the shorter range in most cases.

As for shooting power/speed of setting up the shot (which is the whole reason for the change), the jury is still out.  I can definitely get my shots off quicker, because I'm stick-handling pretty much right in my wheelhouse now instead of away from my body, and I feel like I can put more mustard onto my shots as well.  The problem is I'm so used to shooting the puck when its further out from my body, so there were many times where I would shoot the puck and not even make solid contact becauseI had pushed the puck too far from my body.  Unfortunately this happened during the shootout, where I whiffed on the puck and didn't even get a real shot off...  This is going to take some time to get used to. 

Overall I'm really excited about the changes, and I'm looking forward to getting back on the ice to keep working on getting more comfortable with a shorter stick.

 

Anyway I figured that I'd share my experience, partly because before I decided to go to a shorter stick I did some research online to see whether anyone else had gone through the transition, or could summarize their opinion of the pros/cons of long vs short sticks.  There wasn't much out there and it was mostly all the same stuff that people were repeating (a stick should go between your nose and your chin on skates, longer stick = harder shot, shorter stick= better deking etc), and after going through with it first hand, I've noticed that its more complicated than all the generalizations that are published online.

And for conversation sake, I was interested to hear how you guys and gals prefer your equipment and why, and whether you've made any changes to accommodate a change in the type of game you play.  It could be hockey stick, skates, gloves, anything.

 

edit: this also gives us something to talk about that isn't Dekeyser still hasn't signed!  Alfie is injured!  Cleary is wasting a roster spot!  etc




#2535973 Rule Changes for 2014-2015 Season

Posted by BottleOfSmoke on 11 September 2014 - 02:25 PM

@SiriusXMNHL: BREAKING NEWS- @NHL announces new rule changes. Here's the details. http://t.co/JOsUKJMrPI Do you like the changes http://t.co/lfBca3cvb0

Edit to add rules:

From the link above-

Rule 1.8 Rink - Goalkeeper's Restricted Area

The trapezoid will be expanded by two feet from the goal post on both sides of the net.

Rule 23 Game Misconduct Penalties

A new Game Misconduct category will be created. Clipping, charging, elbowing, interference, kneeing, head-butting and butt-ending move from the general category into the same category as boarding and checking from behind ("Physical Fouls"), whereby a player who incurs two such game misconducts in this category would now be automatically suspended for one game.

Rule 24 Penalty Shot

The 'Spin-O-Rama' move, as described in Section 24.2 of the 2013-14 NHL Rule Book, will no longer be permitted either in Penalty Shot situations or in the Shootout.

Rule 38 Video Goal Judge

Video review will be expanded in the following areas:

* Rule 38.4 (viii) has been modified to allow broader discretion to Hockey Operations to assist the referees in determining the legitimacy of all potential goals (e.g., to ensure they are "good hockey goals"). The revised Rule will allow Hockey Operations to correct a broader array of situations where video review clearly establishes that a "goal" or "no goal" call on the ice has been made in error. The new expanded rule will also allow Hockey Operations to provide guidance to referees on goal and potential goal plays where the referee has blown his whistle (or intended to blow his whistle) after having lost sight of the puck.

* In reviewing "Kicked in Goals," Hockey Operations will require more demonstrable video evidence of a "distinct kicking motion" in order to overrule a "goal" call on the ice, or to uphold a "no goal" call on the ice.

Rule 57 Tripping

The rule relating to "Tripping" will be revised to specifically provide that a two minute minor penalty will be assessed when a defending player "dives" and trips an attacking player with his body/arm/shoulder, regardless of whether the defending player is able to make initial contact with the puck.

But, in situations where a penalty shot might otherwise be appropriate, if the defending player "dives" and touches the puck first (before the trip), no penalty shot will be awarded. (In such cases, the resulting penalty will be limited to a two-minute minor penalty for tripping.)

Rule 64 Diving / Embellishment

The supplementary discipline penalties associated with Rule 64.3 (Diving/Embellishment) will be revised to bring attention to and more seriously penalize players (and teams) who repeatedly dive and embellish in an attempt to draw penalties. Fines will be assessed to players and head coaches on a graduated scale outlined below.

Incident # Player Fine(s) Head Coach Fine(s)

1 Warning N/A

2 $2,000 N/A

3 $3,000 N/A

4 $4,000 $2,000

5 $5,000 $3,000

6 $5,000 $4,000

7 $5,000 $5,000

8 $5,000 $5,000

Rule 76 Face-offs

To curb delay tactics on face-offs after icing infractions, in situations where the defending team is guilty of a face-off violation, following an icing, the defending player who is initially lined up for the face-off will be given a warning, but will be required to remain in the circle to take the face-off. A second face-off violation by the defending team in such situation will result in a two minute minor bench penalty.

Rule 84 Overtime

* Teams will switch ends prior to the start of overtime in the regular season.

* The entire ice surface will undergo a "dry scrape" prior to the start of overtime in the regular season.

* The procedure requiring the head coach to submit a list of the first three shooters in the shoot-out has been eliminated.

Rule 85 Puck Out of Bounds

There have been further rule changes made relating to face-off location to avoid penalizing teams for plays intended to create bona fide scoring opportunities. Specifically, the following are "categories of plays" where face-offs will remain in the attacking zone despite the fact that the attacking team was technically responsible for the stoppage in play: Shots at the net by a player on the attacking team where: (i) the shot breaks the glass; (ii) the shot goes off the side of the net and deflects out of play; (iii) the shot goes off the dasher boards or glass and deflects out of play; (iv) the shot is tipped or deflected out of play by a teammate; and (v) the shot becomes wedged in or on the exterior of the goal net.

In addition, the following rule change will be enacted for the 2014 preseason and may be continued for the 2014/15 regular season if approved by the League and the NHLPA.

Rule 1.9 Rink Face-off Spots and Circles Ice Markings/Hash Marks

The hash marks at the end zone circles will be moved from three feet apart to five feet, seven inches apart (international markings).


#2535935 Dekeyser signed. 2 yrs $2.187 million AAV

Posted by kipwinger on 11 September 2014 - 09:31 AM

 

We get it Kip...

 

You definitely do.  But read over the last three or four pages and you'd be shocked by the number of people blaming KH for this deal not being done.  Ya know, cause he's a screw up and Dekeyser is just an honest local boy with a heart of gold. 




#2535931 Dekeyser signed. 2 yrs $2.187 million AAV

Posted by krsmith17 on 11 September 2014 - 09:24 AM

There is over $5.9M in cap space remaining once Jurco is sent down, more than enough to sign DeKeyser to a reasonable contract as well as Alfredsson to a bonus heavy contract. Both Alfie's and Cleary's bonus' can get bumped to next years salary cap, so that is not an issue. I don't believe that this DeKeyser situation (if you can even call it that) has anything to do with any other player (Quincey, Alfredsson, Cleary, or whichever other player you can think to blame). This is between Holland, DeKeyser and Morris (agent) and a deal will get done, DeKeyser will not miss any games because of this and there will be no bad blood once it is done.




#2535928 Dekeyser signed. 2 yrs $2.187 million AAV

Posted by krsmith17 on 11 September 2014 - 09:00 AM

Thanks Dickie, finally a logical post in here... I'm a huge fan of DeKeyser and I do believe he is going to be a great defender for us for many years but he is 24 years old and has only played 83 NHL games. He has been very solid ever since his NHL debut in Colorado but one full season in the NHL as an RFA doesn't warrant the same contract as a veteran UFA. How people don't understand this is beyond me. I don't care if the player is better or has more upside, the sample size is just too small. Also, s*** on me all you want but Quincey was one of our most solid defenders in the second half of last season. Like Dickie said, Quincey was not a knee jerk signing and he was not overpaid by much at all.

 

In saying all that, I still think the deal gets done in the next couple weeks, before training camp. I don't get all the panic and overreaction...