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Son of a Wing

Member Since 09 Aug 2003
Offline Last Active Yesterday, 05:49 PM

#2534956 Fedorov and Yzerman vs. Datsyuk and Zetterberg

Posted by Son of a Wing on 26 August 2014 - 05:46 PM

Boyd Devereaux and Jason Williams

#2534939 Holland signs 4 year extension with wings **MOD Warning Post 130**

Posted by Son of a Wing on 26 August 2014 - 11:41 AM


I disagree that it isn't a fair comparison. Both of these guys left the organization, so they gained most of their perspective from within Detroit's group. That they've been able to apply their experience to varied situations is exactly what I want to compare. They took what they learned (from Holland) in Detroit and have applied it elsewhere, in different situations.


Holland has had the luxury of ownership who allows him to spend to the cap ceiling and any cap space limitations (or bad contracts) are the result of Holland's planning and management. And, I'm not sure that there is an unwillingness of teams to trade with the Wings, I think that perception is one of the issues. The Wings don't have the guys that other teams want, no matter how rosy we make our prospects sound. We have a ton of depth- and role-guys, but not the excess of blue-chip prospects teams in rebuild mode want in return and it becomes easier and easier for teams to turn down a trade with Wings that revolves around Johan Franzen and Riley Sheahan for a top-tier guy... [Guys like Tatar, Jurco, Mantha, Nyquist, etc. come off the table because they are needed in addition to whatever the Wings are trying to trade for...]


That's really my biggest knock against Holland, he's been there long enough. Move on. He has nothing to prove. He's won Cups, he's got the longest playoff streak, he's drafted HOFers, etc. etc. etc. Let's get some fresh eyes on the organization and get ahead of the curve again in order to stay where we're at...


You keep saying he has to move on but you haven't listed a single possible solution/alternative that's available that would benefit us.


And since neither Nill or Yzerman is available to Detroit, what's a better option than Holland at this point?

#2534908 The Pavel Datsyuk Show

Posted by Son of a Wing on 25 August 2014 - 10:50 AM

From the same user who made the video number9 posted...


#2534713 Shea Weber's shot is Dangerous

Posted by Son of a Wing on 21 August 2014 - 04:52 PM

Saw this in the comments...



#2534690 Lines Thread

Posted by Son of a Wing on 21 August 2014 - 02:07 PM

I miss having someone like this in the lineup...




Here's hoping Glendening and/or Callahan can develop into an impact hitter.

#2534648 Lines Thread

Posted by Son of a Wing on 20 August 2014 - 06:18 PM

You're right someone was good 10, 15 or 20 years ago so they must still be good now!

Howe can prolly still play let's sign him up.


So you really don't get the concept gaining someone's trust and how that works....


Forget hockey...just in general.  It's a fairly primitive concept.

Or how putting a young person through adversity, and having them overcome obstacles, helps build them to be a better person.

#2534633 Lines Thread

Posted by Son of a Wing on 20 August 2014 - 02:43 PM

where dd he start the year at?


On the third line....  You're welcome to check the boxscores and gameday lineups and stats and facts etc.

#2534558 Holland signs 4 year extension with wings **MOD Warning Post 130**

Posted by Son of a Wing on 19 August 2014 - 01:16 PM

Till his injury Ryan has scored 30 or more goals every season and he did that while always playing on a budget team. To me this is very impressive love the speed of Nyquist but I wouldn't even think twice about trading him for Ryan that's an absolute streak.


Playing on a budget team?  


Yeah it was really tough playing with Getzlaf and Perry for all four 30 goal seasons...


Ryan is a very good player but lets not act like he was fighting that kind of adversity...

#2534514 Holland signs 4 year extension with wings **MOD Warning Post 130**

Posted by Son of a Wing on 18 August 2014 - 07:05 PM

But that's kind of the point. We have the prospects to spare that would be needed to acquire an elite talent or two and still have prospects left.


I don't think anyone is arguing we don't have the pieces to make a big trade or two.


But what teams are willing to give up "elite talent" for just prospects and picks?  They're going to want young proven talent or an elite player back.


Almost every team believes they have a shot at the playoffs and the ones who don't, don't have elite talent.


Who are these "elite players" you see as potentially available who wouldn't cost an elite player in return?

#2534511 Holland signs 4 year extension with wings **MOD Warning Post 130**

Posted by Son of a Wing on 18 August 2014 - 05:15 PM

I don't know where you u got that idea from? I don't see anywhere that might have been implied in his post. Unless I'm understanding it wrong.


Well... he was discussing the concept of us tanking and who the "competition" might be and stressed people to keep in mind that even settling for the 2nd pick would be a win.

#2534498 Lines Thread

Posted by Son of a Wing on 18 August 2014 - 03:13 PM


Are we physical?  I don't think so.  Do we play with an edge?  Not really.  


We need some guys that are tough and unpleasant to play against in a 7 game series.  Yeah, it's nice to have fast Euros who have nice hands, but you need something else as well for balance.    


If someone thinks Sheahan, Tatar and Abby can provide all the grit and unpleasantness that we need in a 7 game series, then I guess their opinion differs from mine.  


I completely agree but we need those guys in the top 6/9 not the on 4th line playing 6min a night.

#2534495 Lidstrom honoured today with plaque next to Yzerman

Posted by Son of a Wing on 18 August 2014 - 02:44 PM


#2534492 Holland signs 4 year extension with wings **MOD Warning Post 130**

Posted by Son of a Wing on 18 August 2014 - 02:04 PM


I understand that nobody is in the room, but you can't give the guy a pass on the bad because of it and only 'see' the good when someone signs.1. Ultimately, Holland's track record in FA signings isn't that good the last several years.


List of Holland's big signings (~$2M+/year) since the last Cup:

08-09 - Marian Hossa (1yr - not re-signed)

09-10 - None

10-11 - None

11-12 - Ian White (2yrs - not re-signed)

12-13 - Jordin Tootoo (3yrs - compliance buy-out)

12-13 - Carlo Colaiacovo (2yrs - compliance buy-out)

13-14 - Daniel Alfredsson (1yr - not re-signed as yet)

13-14 - Stephen Weiss (5yrs - played 26 games and scored 4 pts in year 1)

14-15 - Kyle Quincey (2yrs for a player Detroit was ready to walk away from)


The Suter/Parise snub was at least 'understandable' given the same money/term from Minnesota and the connection the players felt. Having Niskanen, Boyle, and Erhoff walk away from potentially more money in Detroit (in some reports) is more concerning. The fault isn't all on Holland, for sure, but top management should be looking in the mirror and trying to determine how to get better regardless of where you lay blame.


2. And, as someone else points out, FA isn't the only key to success. You have to draft well, too. So how many top-6 forwards or top-4 defensemen has Holland picked up in the last six-seven drafts?


2008-09 - Gustav Nyquist

2009-10 - Tomas Tatar (maybe)


2010-11 - None

2011-12 - None

2012-13 - None

2013-14 - Anthony Mantha (projected)


Drafts are much harder to judge especially for a draft-and-develop team like Detroit. The Wings do have a couple kids who still project well, too. But a lot don't. They are bottom-six / bottom pair grinders. It's drafting by a team/GM which relies on supplementing his home-grown talent with pick-of-the-litter FAs. You can't draft grinders and then not come through on the FAs...


The Wings haven't been a team which settles for 'serviceable' over the past few years. Is that what Detroit is becoming? 


1. Compared with what? Other GMs during the same span or Holland before the cap?  Because aside from one team (Minnesota), I don't see any teams stealing the show with free agents.


2. We currently have one of the deepest prospect pools in the NHL and develop more of our picks than almost anyone.  How many top players do you expect this team to develop??


3. Considering our prospects take about 5 years to develop, it's no surprise none since 2010/11 have proven top 4/6 status since most of them have barely even played in the league.

#2534491 Lines Thread

Posted by Son of a Wing on 18 August 2014 - 01:49 PM


That's why I've said you need a top 6 bottom 6 approach with the third line being the kid line the fourth line (ideally), should be the one from hell, kicking ass if it needs. But that being said I just don't see it happening the team will for sure be one of the softest again, last in FMs ( again ) but Mantha has the size to do some checking so why not let him learn that too.


My personal preference would be to go slowly with the kid, don't rush him and let him develop at his own pace maybe work out with McKee.


You seem to think that having a 4th line of enforcers makes you a "tough team".  I can assure you it doesn't.


Boston is considered tough because their best players either are very physical or play with an edge. (Chara, Lucic, Bergeron, Marchand)


Nobody's talking about Boston being any weaker since they lost Thornton.

#2534483 Holland signs 4 year extension with wings **MOD Warning Post 130**

Posted by Son of a Wing on 18 August 2014 - 12:45 PM


Ehrhoff, Niskanen are a big deal because they would have fixed an ever increasing hole since Lidas left.


Holland and some fans need to realize the time where players would come here for less are over. The Wings nowadays are just one of the teams asking for their service and if the money isn't comparable or hence better they won't sign. Overpayment and taking risks are part of a  GMs job, UFA is also known as overpayment day but guess what ? I would have given Suter, Parise even 15 years if it means we are getting to see another cup for Mr. I, Pasha and Z after they've done so much for this former TOP destination in the NHL.


Whats the point of having capsapce if the top guys aren't hitting UFA anymore or you aren't going to use it t o your  advantage ? Add to that it's not like the capspace has been used wisely this off-season either, overpayment for 2 players and third on the cusp of getting re-signed which doesn't leave a lot for a local hero (Danny D) is that smart cap management ? I don't think so.


Also Holland didn't take a risks and still lost a trades by a landslide (Poilé absolutely schooled him) so losing a big trade is much better than getting schooled by another gm, as did Yzerman two years ago..


As for McDavid the competition is fierce and tough you need to outtank: Buffalo, Florida, Winnipeg, Edmonton, New York, Calgary and maybe even Phoenix but keep in mind the second pick is also a great one Eichel will be a star in this league too.


They would fix the hole left by Lidstrom?......Really?