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Son of a Wing

Member Since 09 Aug 2003
Offline Last Active Today, 02:50 PM

#2530624 Red Wings Target Mike Green

Posted by Son of a Wing on 08 July 2014 - 02:19 PM

:shocking: For an injury prone defenseman on the last year of his contract?? Umm...yeah, Tatar is very much untouchable in this scenario IMO. Now if we were looking to trade for Shea Weber that would be a different story. But for Mike Green, Kenny would be a fool to give up a player like Tatar who has been so good and still hasn't hit his full potential in this league.


And yet you're more than willing to give up Jurco (a more valuable player)....... :shocking:

Tatar is two years older...I sure hope he's outplayed him...

#2530617 Red Wings Target Mike Green

Posted by Son of a Wing on 08 July 2014 - 02:05 PM

I think it goes without saying that we can't give up Tatar, Nyquist or Mantha. But Jurco and picks seems reasonable considering how desperately we need a top D-man and a right handed shot. Get it done Kenny.


I don't think Tatar is anywhere close to being an untouchable...


He's a valuable player but not that valuable.

#2530614 Red Wings Target Mike Green

Posted by Son of a Wing on 08 July 2014 - 02:03 PM

Yea he has two 70+ point campaigns under his belt and a 31 goal season. Show me another defenseman that has those numbers that are available.


True but he hasn't cracked 40 points since the 2009 season because of recurring groin and concussion issues.


I'm all for a Green trade but let's not kid ourselves.  We shouldn't be selling the farm for another injury prone guy.


Tatar OR Pulkkinen plus Kindl and a conditional pick on resigning.  Similar to the package Dats-Deke proposed.

#2530596 Red Wings rookie camp roster revealed

Posted by Son of a Wing on 08 July 2014 - 12:35 PM

Does anyone know why Mike McKee is playing defense at the development camp? I thought they had decided to convert him to forward? Which in my opinion was the right call...


Because Marchenko is injured.



In his first season at Western Michigan University, McKee played in twenty-one games and registered one goal, while battling injuries and being moved around between the offense and defense.

McKee talked about playing both offense and defense, “I think I can play either position, I don’t really have a preference. It is wherever they need me to play, I will play.”

McKee is willing to play wherever the coach wants him to play, but he seems to like playing on the offensive side of the puck. Detroit has McKee as a F/D on their Development Camp roster, but with Alexey Marchenko not practicing the coaches have kept him exclusively on defense and he has been impressive.



#2530593 Next Seasons Needs/Team Future

Posted by Son of a Wing on 08 July 2014 - 12:26 PM

DeGraa55, make the bet. I'm with marcaractac. There is very little chance for any of those players to miss anything close to what they missed last season. So that along with the young guys having another full season, we will be a much better team. Guaranteed!

Detroit # 1 Fan, I just don't see any harm in Jurco getting top line minutes down in Grand Rapids for another half season or so. Having a player like Jurco as a first call up is never a bad thing. Depth is key to success in the NHL.


Ya good luck with that.  Then he'd have to be accountable to the things he says. lol


I'm with ya in terms of those guys starting in the minors. Hell I'd get Griffins season tickets to see that squad. (If I lived there)


Jurco    Athanasiou    Mantha

Nastasiak Miele  Pulkkinen

Ferraro  Nosek   Callahan


Ouellet    Marchenko

Backman   Sproul

Nedomlel  Jensen




*sprinkle in the AHL vets


I also agree that Weiss is going to have a great year.

#2530449 What's best for Mantha?

Posted by Son of a Wing on 07 July 2014 - 03:20 PM

Just because I take hard line stances, doesn't mean I am combative with people...anyhow, I love when people disagree with me, but not when they just go "you're stupid" or "you don't know anything about hockey"


anyhow, I've been here for a VERY long time and contribute a TON of stuff, so I am not worried about someone disagreeing with me. If everyone agreed with each other this would be a pretty boring forum.


Here is your link on Stralman saying no to Detroit:




I'm not questioning your status/role on this site.  Many of us have been here just as long... That doesn't make our opinion any more or less valid. We're still just one voice.


My point was that you can't really be THAT surprised that people take issue/offense to some of the things you say.  Especially when you are so confident in your stance despite the fact that it can be quite outlandish to many.



Anyways....I think Mantha would benefit most with some minor-league seasoning. Same with AA. Between those two and Pulkkinen we've got a nice diverse trio of forwards to choose from.

#2530441 What's best for Mantha?

Posted by Son of a Wing on 07 July 2014 - 02:52 PM

Euro...please see the post above yours...I am not bashing Canada in anyway or discrediting the Gold's....


What is with people being so combative today? Sheesh!  Babcock is the issue and Holland plays along.  If this is not the issue, then why are UFA's shunning us when they never used to?  Simple answer, Holland offers less money and players don't like Babcock.  If Babcock was such a super great coach and all players he won Gold with admire and long to play for him, then why are the ones that were UFA's the 8 years knocking on the door to get here?


...and yes, I would take that bridge! I could double the fee and make a little extra money!


You can't be serious....


You take extremely hard-lined stances on the most ridiculous, knee-jerk (doing my best to use polite words) opinions and then get all surprised and defensive when everybody (but Richdg or Degra55) disagrees with you.


It's like clockwork around here...

#2530418 John Gibson's Pac Man mask for 2014

Posted by Son of a Wing on 07 July 2014 - 01:12 PM



Don't forget about Howard...

#2530401 Next Seasons Needs/Team Future

Posted by Son of a Wing on 07 July 2014 - 12:24 PM

SOW this isn't a shot at you, but there does seem to be a feeling that trading a young prospect only means we are going to get a 34 year old guy with 1 or 2 years left to play. Look at the 3 big F that got moved so far this off season: Kesler, Neal, and Spezza. None of those deals broke the banks of the teams that picked them up. Trueth be told, we could have made all 3 of those deals, been a much better team, and still had some young guys left over. Not to mention we had the cap space for it. While prospects are nice and all, most never pan out. That is true and will always be true. Same was true with the Nash deal, not getting O'reilly, and Ryan. That is 6 big time F that have been moved or available lately that we could have had, failed to get, all but 1 are under 30. Meanwhile we have been 15th or so in scoring the last 2 years, with most of our prospects burried in the minors.


I didn't say don't trade our youth. I said don't trade those specific players. In fact I made a point of saying I'm not anti-trade.


I'd be more than open to trading a combination of a high draft pick and one or two of Tatar, Pulkinnen, Backman, Ouellet for the right piece.


But it better be a damn good piece...



I believe that as long as he doesn't move in either direction, the team will continue to be stuck in neutral, fighting just to make the playoffs each year.

I don't want him to compromise the future either, I don't think it's worth it.  Neither is hanging on to the past.


I see it as a slow build and "stocking of the shelves" and not a status of neutral. We're building WHILE staying competitive and that's tougher than it sounds.


We currently have the 3rd highest ranked group of prospects in the entire league AND we've got a playoff team. Only Anaheim, Chicago and Tampa Bay also have that Potential/Current talent mix.


No we're not a "legitimate contender" but with the right move or two and our young core furthering their development, we could see a serious run soon.  Yes I believe that.

#2530317 Next Seasons Needs/Team Future

Posted by Son of a Wing on 06 July 2014 - 10:26 PM


When you're scraping your way into the playoffs by 3 and 1 points over the last couple seasons, every game counts...  and the only guys who get waived are the ones the organization has already tried to trade unsuccessfully, like Tootoo, Eaves, Samuelsson, Emmerton... all of whom went unclaimed.

Cleary was injured and Samuelsson.. well, who really knows, he wasn't touching the ice no matter what.  Kindl manages to play his way out of the lineup by the end of the playoffs, that's what he does.  Bertuzzi and Andersson had been squeezed out, yes.  But Franzen doesn't get scratched when he has one goal in 20 games.

The methods could very well lead to not making the playoffs.  The Wings aren't in a position of dominance.  They're built around older forwards and are relatively inexperienced on defense.  The postseason isn't merely a given, it's the goal now.  Holland either needs to go for broke, sign and/or trade for some high-end players and make a serious Cup run or two, or fully embrace the youth movement and stop hanging onto guys like Cleary, Quincey, Gustavsson, etc.  Instead, he waffles back and forth.  The last three summers, he's said he'll be very active in free agency... he got his guys in 2013 (with mixed results), but he struck out horribly in 2012 and so far in 2014.  He hasn't made a trade of significance in FOREVER.  Yet he keeps signing middling players to contracts and keeping his young players buried in Grand Rapids.  Has he not seen the benefits of using his younger players?  They've thrived in their roles since the lockout.  Not just been adequate, they've excelled.  Yes, they'll make mistakes, but as long as they learn from them and don't repeat them over and over, that's progress.  Holland's reasoning for not going young is that he "doesn't want to miss the playoffs for 5 years."  Who thinks that'll actually happen?  These kids are GOOD.  They're not great, they're not Crosbys or Ovechkins or Lidstroms, but they're really solid and exciting.  The more they play now, the better they're going to be in a couple years.  But you can't get experience without getting experience.


What I really want is for Holland to pick a path and stick to it 100%.


I think this where the fundamental divide is.  I don't think we have to do either extreme.


That doesn't mean I'm pro-Cleary/Quincey or anti-trade but it does mean I don't think we should seriously compromise our future.


ie. Trading Mantha, Sproul, Nyquist, AA/ Signing mid-range UFAs to overpaid long-term deals. (I'm not referencing Niskanen)

#2530176 Next Seasons Needs/Team Future

Posted by Son of a Wing on 05 July 2014 - 09:30 PM

One game more then they should've. They didn't earn it.


Actually Bertuzzi did deserve that game.  More so than Andersson deserved his.

#2530172 Next Seasons Needs/Team Future

Posted by Son of a Wing on 05 July 2014 - 09:21 PM


And in my opinion, the message that sends is "It's ok to underperform.  We don't demand your very best every night.  Your job is safe here, no matter what."  Which, in my opinion, can be far more toxic than making changes.



I don't think that's the result at all.  Tough choices get made. People get sat when it counts and even waived. It's just not as knee-jerk in Detroit.


Bertuzzi, Sammy and Cleary played a whopping 1 game combined in the playoffs.  Kindl was in the press box by the end. Andersson barely touched the ice.


As long as we make the playoffs, I don't think they'll question those methods during the regular season.

#2530150 Next Seasons Needs/Team Future

Posted by Son of a Wing on 05 July 2014 - 07:22 PM

Thing is - the only thing we are doing right is drafting and developing. There are many other components of team management such as:

- conditioning (injuries)

- trading

- signing free agents

- etc.

And we are failing in every category right now other than drafting and developing. 


I honestly think they are trying to build and maintain a culture here where players feel safe and appreciated.  Where if they have go through a slump, they won't fear being traded or instantly replaced.


Obviously they go to extremes at times.(Cleary) But sometimes the message sent can have a more profound impact down the road than the immediate repercussions.


I'm sure many believe that fear can motivate a player but I don't think that's a stable way of doing business.  I just don't see us trading roster players unless there's an issue with attitude or commitment or just too many bodies.


We definitely struck out this year in free agency.  No looking past that.  That's on management.  Injuries...that's a tough thing to place blame on.

#2530141 Next Seasons Needs/Team Future

Posted by Son of a Wing on 05 July 2014 - 06:09 PM

Doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results?  That's the definition of insanity.


I've never understood this saying as it's not even close to the definition...


We're building a system and it takes time. Taking a look at the players coming through our system I'd say it's working.

#2529391 TANK IT! 2014-2015 Season

Posted by Son of a Wing on 02 July 2014 - 10:45 AM


You're right. Abdelkader, Glendenning, and Miller in rotating top 6 roles has cup written all over it (despite the fact all 3 would barely make the 4th line on most teams). 


We have some shining stars and glimmers of bright spots don't get me wrong, but the majority of our roster is an AHL team, plain and simple. Instead of finishing in the middle and possible BARELY squeezing in the playoffs just to get embarrassed, which accomplishes absolutely nothing, why not hope for a bottom finish and look forward to a high pick and org changes?

Now there's something to get excited about. 


How are Glendenning and Miller in rotating top 6 roles?? You realize forward depth is one of our strengths right?


Just because we didn't land a top defenceman doesn't turn half our roster into an AHL squad....


I'm as disappointed as anyone but some of you guys need a serious reality check...