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Son of a Wing

Member Since 09 Aug 2003
Offline Last Active Today, 01:12 PM
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#2534511 Holland signs 4 year extension with wings **MOD Warning Post 130**

Posted by Son of a Wing on 18 August 2014 - 05:15 PM

I don't know where you u got that idea from? I don't see anywhere that might have been implied in his post. Unless I'm understanding it wrong.

 

Well... he was discussing the concept of us tanking and who the "competition" might be and stressed people to keep in mind that even settling for the 2nd pick would be a win.




#2534498 Lines Thread

Posted by Son of a Wing on 18 August 2014 - 03:13 PM

 

Are we physical?  I don't think so.  Do we play with an edge?  Not really.  

 

We need some guys that are tough and unpleasant to play against in a 7 game series.  Yeah, it's nice to have fast Euros who have nice hands, but you need something else as well for balance.    

 

If someone thinks Sheahan, Tatar and Abby can provide all the grit and unpleasantness that we need in a 7 game series, then I guess their opinion differs from mine.  

 

I completely agree but we need those guys in the top 6/9 not the on 4th line playing 6min a night.




#2534495 Lidstrom honoured today with plaque next to Yzerman

Posted by Son of a Wing on 18 August 2014 - 02:44 PM

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#2534492 Holland signs 4 year extension with wings **MOD Warning Post 130**

Posted by Son of a Wing on 18 August 2014 - 02:04 PM

 

I understand that nobody is in the room, but you can't give the guy a pass on the bad because of it and only 'see' the good when someone signs.1. Ultimately, Holland's track record in FA signings isn't that good the last several years.

 

List of Holland's big signings (~$2M+/year) since the last Cup:

08-09 - Marian Hossa (1yr - not re-signed)

09-10 - None

10-11 - None

11-12 - Ian White (2yrs - not re-signed)

12-13 - Jordin Tootoo (3yrs - compliance buy-out)

12-13 - Carlo Colaiacovo (2yrs - compliance buy-out)

13-14 - Daniel Alfredsson (1yr - not re-signed as yet)

13-14 - Stephen Weiss (5yrs - played 26 games and scored 4 pts in year 1)

14-15 - Kyle Quincey (2yrs for a player Detroit was ready to walk away from)

 

The Suter/Parise snub was at least 'understandable' given the same money/term from Minnesota and the connection the players felt. Having Niskanen, Boyle, and Erhoff walk away from potentially more money in Detroit (in some reports) is more concerning. The fault isn't all on Holland, for sure, but top management should be looking in the mirror and trying to determine how to get better regardless of where you lay blame.

 

2. And, as someone else points out, FA isn't the only key to success. You have to draft well, too. So how many top-6 forwards or top-4 defensemen has Holland picked up in the last six-seven drafts?

 

2008-09 - Gustav Nyquist

2009-10 - Tomas Tatar (maybe)

3.

2010-11 - None

2011-12 - None

2012-13 - None

2013-14 - Anthony Mantha (projected)

 

Drafts are much harder to judge especially for a draft-and-develop team like Detroit. The Wings do have a couple kids who still project well, too. But a lot don't. They are bottom-six / bottom pair grinders. It's drafting by a team/GM which relies on supplementing his home-grown talent with pick-of-the-litter FAs. You can't draft grinders and then not come through on the FAs...

 

The Wings haven't been a team which settles for 'serviceable' over the past few years. Is that what Detroit is becoming? 

 

1. Compared with what? Other GMs during the same span or Holland before the cap?  Because aside from one team (Minnesota), I don't see any teams stealing the show with free agents.

 

2. We currently have one of the deepest prospect pools in the NHL and develop more of our picks than almost anyone.  How many top players do you expect this team to develop??

 

3. Considering our prospects take about 5 years to develop, it's no surprise none since 2010/11 have proven top 4/6 status since most of them have barely even played in the league.




#2534491 Lines Thread

Posted by Son of a Wing on 18 August 2014 - 01:49 PM

 

That's why I've said you need a top 6 bottom 6 approach with the third line being the kid line the fourth line (ideally), should be the one from hell, kicking ass if it needs. But that being said I just don't see it happening the team will for sure be one of the softest again, last in FMs ( again ) but Mantha has the size to do some checking so why not let him learn that too.

 

My personal preference would be to go slowly with the kid, don't rush him and let him develop at his own pace maybe work out with McKee.

 

You seem to think that having a 4th line of enforcers makes you a "tough team".  I can assure you it doesn't.

 

Boston is considered tough because their best players either are very physical or play with an edge. (Chara, Lucic, Bergeron, Marchand)

 

Nobody's talking about Boston being any weaker since they lost Thornton.




#2534483 Holland signs 4 year extension with wings **MOD Warning Post 130**

Posted by Son of a Wing on 18 August 2014 - 12:45 PM

 

Ehrhoff, Niskanen are a big deal because they would have fixed an ever increasing hole since Lidas left.

 

Holland and some fans need to realize the time where players would come here for less are over. The Wings nowadays are just one of the teams asking for their service and if the money isn't comparable or hence better they won't sign. Overpayment and taking risks are part of a  GMs job, UFA is also known as overpayment day but guess what ? I would have given Suter, Parise even 15 years if it means we are getting to see another cup for Mr. I, Pasha and Z after they've done so much for this former TOP destination in the NHL.

 

Whats the point of having capsapce if the top guys aren't hitting UFA anymore or you aren't going to use it t o your  advantage ? Add to that it's not like the capspace has been used wisely this off-season either, overpayment for 2 players and third on the cusp of getting re-signed which doesn't leave a lot for a local hero (Danny D) is that smart cap management ? I don't think so.

 

Also Holland didn't take a risks and still lost a trades by a landslide (Poilé absolutely schooled him) so losing a big trade is much better than getting schooled by another gm, as did Yzerman two years ago..

 

As for McDavid the competition is fierce and tough you need to outtank: Buffalo, Florida, Winnipeg, Edmonton, New York, Calgary and maybe even Phoenix but keep in mind the second pick is also a great one Eichel will be a star in this league too.

 

They would fix the hole left by Lidstrom?......Really?




#2534476 Alfie wants to play

Posted by Son of a Wing on 18 August 2014 - 11:43 AM

...so Holland says he is looking to re-sign Alfie and will NOT be signing a depth defenseman or forward.  So our worst nightmare has come true.  Only $4M left in cap, don't know how he is going to split that up between Danny and Alfie...

 

Dekeyser can take 2.5m on a short deal and Alfie can have an incentive-based contract (like Iginlas this past season) with a base of 1-1.5m plus bonuses.

 

Definitely FAR from our worst nightmares...




#2534419 The Pavel Datsyuk Show

Posted by Son of a Wing on 17 August 2014 - 12:25 PM

Goals

 

 

Assists

 




#2534391 Holland signs 4 year extension with wings **MOD Warning Post 130**

Posted by Son of a Wing on 16 August 2014 - 02:32 PM

How did the wings get Stevie y? It wasn't with the 278 overall pick. People are so DMAN short sighted YES THE WINGS TANKED TO GET GOOD. Stop the god damn arrogance and accept it.

Then they continue to draft AND trade AND sign free agents and were able to maintain it. Now they don't trade or sign free agents but still draft so we will see if they can.

It'll be tough for the playoff record the wings are in to happen again but that doesn't matter. What does matter is four cups in the span of 23 years now which can be matched. And I wouldn't surprised to see the kings do that either.

 

Oh the irony...




#2534389 Holland signs 4 year extension with wings **MOD Warning Post 130**

Posted by Son of a Wing on 16 August 2014 - 02:28 PM

 I've said CENTER prospects after Pulkinnen. Larkin can play either center or left wing and till he is ready nobody will know at which position he is going to flourish.

 

Good god Alfie wanted to play with a bunch of Swedes - at this point in his career he is a depth player plain and simple - and thought this team would have give him a better chance than his old one, there were also reports of him being pissed about the lowball offer from the Senators.  Weiss top UFA seriously ? The guy came back after a serious injury and nobody knew if he would be fully recovered or not turns out, he wasn't. So till he shows huge improvements this season I wouldn't even call him a good signing save for a Hossa type of signing but maybe that doesdn't fit the rose colored blind thoughts of some..

 

As for missing out Niskanen, Ehrhoff ?! They may not be Hossa type players but both were the by far best UFAs this year and we didn't get either one, period. So a GM can't have the luxury of stating "I don't know why they aren't coming here.." because that  means this teams future would solely depend on almost every prospect reaching their expected maximum potential and how often does that happen ? (hint the number is lower than 1...)

 

Holland has his work cutout for him and he better figures out how to get top UFAs to sign here otherwise this will be a looooong 4 years.

 

Wow OK Frank I can read your (now-edited) statement. The original read...

Yup ufas aren't coming and the prospect pool is dry after Pulkinen

 

Zombo quoted you a page back if you forgot... Besides the fact that Pulkkinen isn't a center so "center prospects after Pulkkinen" doesn't make any sense.

 

Ehrhoff and Niskanen are overpaid middle-tier players.  Valuable but costly.

 

You mention the swedish connection yet ignore Niskanen's connection to Washington....




#2534387 Holland signs 4 year extension with wings **MOD Warning Post 130**

Posted by Son of a Wing on 16 August 2014 - 01:37 PM

Ok when was the last time the Wings got a top ufa? My answer would be 2008 Marian Hossaand only because he badly wanted to be here. I'm just a fan but the writing has been on the wall for quite some time now and with it as saying no to Detroit Holland needs to get creative and might take the risk of losing a big trade. So what is so wrong about my statement? The game has evolved teams are now built in a much more balanced way and GMs need to react quickly and sorry but I haven't seen that drive since 2007.

 

Seriously Frank? Whether people like to admit it or not Alfie and Weiss were two of the biggest guys last year.

 

Oh you meant a player of Hossa's stature?  Yeah they don't hit UFA status anymore.  Parise and Suter were the last ones and 1 team out of 30 got them for hometown reasons.

 

Who exactly are these Hossa-calibre players we're missing out on??

 

Also, you couldn't be more wrong about our prospect pool.  Nothing past Pulkkinen??  My god man....  I can't tell if you're trolling or just that blinded by your pessimism. 

 

Mantha, Athanasiou, Janmark, Nosek, Nastasiuk, Larkin, Turgeon, Bertuzzi

 

If that's nothing then I want a whole lot more of nothing...




#2534271 Holland signs 4 year extension with wings **MOD Warning Post 130**

Posted by Son of a Wing on 14 August 2014 - 04:33 PM

Stopped reading at the first quote. Put together what? Inherited is the proper word.

 

Yes because the team he inherited won all those games....It obviously never changed....we never acquired or drafted anyone good....oh right let me guess....someone else gets all the credit for that... :ok:




#2534156 What Might Have Been: Gretzky to Detroit?

Posted by Son of a Wing on 13 August 2014 - 01:20 PM

 

It's hard to predict what would and wouldn't have happened.  What kind of free agents, trades, etc the Wings would have made with Gretzky.

 

It is possible, that Detroit would have won some Cups in the early to mid 90's with Gretzky on the team.  You don't know.  

 

Well of course we don't know and that's possible...that's why people are speculating... but that's not even what Hoon was talking about...

 

He was addressing the effect that trade would have on the cup winning teams(97,98,02) and how it might not be as positive as some stated...which is a legitimate concern for those years.

 

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills...




#2534154 What Might Have Been: Gretzky to Detroit?

Posted by Son of a Wing on 13 August 2014 - 12:53 PM

 

Because Gretzky was putting up more points on significantly worse teams.  At every single stage of their respective careers Wayne Gretzky was a superior player.  I know that it's become fashionable over the years to downplay just how good this guy was, but the truth is, he's not universally considered the greatest hockey player in the history of the game because he was actually worse than Steve Yzerman. 

 

Again, this is just a case of hometown nostalgia.  As I've already said, it's like saying you wouldn't trade Ray Bourque for Bobby Orr (I know, same team) just because Bourque was really good too. 

 

Given their respective careers up to that point, you'd be a complete and total fool to not trade Yzerman for Gretzky in 1988. 

 

You're twisting his words. I think Hoon had a very valid point.

 

He refuted your statement..

 

 

"You take the same teams as we had in 97, 98, and 2002 and swap Yzerman for Gretzky and we're WAY better."

 

...by addressing the fact that Gretzky was nearing retirement for 97/98 and actually in retirement for 2002 and in comparison, Yzerman was in his 2-way prime.

 

A very valid point.




#2533378 2014 Offseason League Signings and Trades

Posted by Son of a Wing on 30 July 2014 - 03:01 PM

I'm thinking it will be roughly the same amount that Gardiner had signed for...Nothing against Gardiner, but of the 2 players - DD, and Gardiner - who's played a greater role for their respective team?

 

Gardiner?  He plays in every situation, ranked 2nd among his entire team in minutes/game and is relied on heavily for his offense and puck moving ability.

 

Dekeyser is a good player who we need but Gardiner plays a much larger role on his team.