cprice12

Here's the question:



So Jeremy Ruthford can determine factually what would've happened in totally fictional situations??  

Otherwise it just sounds like you asked a Blues writer to speculate on your leading question (how many game suspended?) and hopefully agree with you.  

And even he thinks it should've just been 2 minutes for roughing.

Why so serious?
It was basically a statement about how Franzen should have been penalized on the play and how star players fail to get penalized like others do.

Explain to me how you come up with only a 2 minute rough, when he drew blood with a cross check to the chin?

Bah, nevermind...I'm done in this thread.  It's like talking to a wall in here.
Wings fans don't think Franzen should have been penalized...shocker...I get it.

Maybe we'll see you guys in the playoffs...Good luck with Nashville.

So the Reaves hit was maybe two minutes according to you, but the Franzen play is a major and game misconduct? That's hysterical. The Reaves penalty is "ticky tacky"? He leveled Stuart face first into the boards.

The Blues were up 2-0 on their home ice with six minutes left. When the Red Wings really turned it on, the Blues had no answer especially in OT.

Four straight wins against the Blues. Little brother has to be outraged today.

Let's break down the Reaves hit...
- Stuart had JUST played the puck, and he was extended from playing the puck and was NOT facing the boards.
- Reaves skates by Stuart and hits him shoulder to shoulder.
- Because Stuart was reaching, the hit caused Stuart to turn into the boards and catch glass with his face.

If you want to give a 2 minute boarding penalty because Stuart's head hit the glass, then ok.  I can buy that.  But 5 minutes and a game is excessive.  But I guess the ref thought there was carelessness on Reaves' part OR they thought he hit him from behind.  I disagree with the call, but I can understand why the ref may have thought it was worse than it was...but I disagree with the no-call on Franzen a lot more.

Let's break down the Franzen hit...
- Franzen and Backes are tied up after the end of the 2nd period.
- Franzen obviously upset about something.
- Franzen cross checks Backes in the face, knocking Backes down & drawing blood.  Then Franzen punches Backes in the head.

The intent to injur and the drawing blood should have been 5 minutes and a game misconduct.

My main gripe is that if the refs are going to make that call on Reaves and the other ones on Steen, then you can't look the other way on the Franzen hit.  That's just horrible officiating.  At first I thought, well, maybe they didn't see it...but the video replay shows the ref skating towards them maybe 20 ft. away, looking right at it.  He saw it and decided to call nothing.  

If Backes had done that to Datsyuk?  Forget about it...you guys would be livid and calling for a 5 game suspension.

Honestly, as much as you guys want to sit there and say the reffing was horrible, we can sit there and say the same thing. They allowed A LOT of cheap s*** to happen, and it WAS happening all game. Although I feel like they should've been calling more things, I think they should've kept things alone also but they're also trying to ensure safety with the playoffs right around the corner. Do Blue fans feel like they got cheated out of a game? Sure, whatever have that feeling. Now about the whole Franzen thing, none of us got a clear cut image of what happened but all i've heard from people at the game was Backes threw a dive, Franzen got pissed. If anything, they would've gotten offsetting penalties. I feel the 5 minute powerplay and game misconduct was very very effy but it was a dangerous play and a careless one at that, so I can see why it was called. **EDIT** All in all, that 5 minute powerplay probably motivated you guys more than it helped us. I do believe you guys got a lighting bolt shot through your team and got a shorty. All the 5 minute powerplay ultimately did was fuel you guys and put us in the dog house with babs. **EDIT** I do believe quite vividly Kronwall getting choked with a stick and being dragged to the ground with absolutely no call. So if we want to start throwing the ref excuse, we can do it all day. Just take off your homer glasses before judging how the game is being officiated. One thing i'll say, I love the energy the Blues fans brought to this game, but i'll give you alittle insider news. You should probably cheer your own team on instead of fueling a powerhouse veteran team like Detroit with bulls*** chants of "Red Wings suck!". I thought we were playing Chicago last night when I start hearing that bulls***. But hey, we all know how the cookie crumbled. All in all, I thought it was a good game and i'll say thanks for instilling some confidence back into our team.

Yup, the non-call on Steen when he got tangled up with Kronwall behind the net should have been a penalty.  That probably should have been called.  No question.

I have no problem with letting teams play and not calling minor stuff or incidental stuff...especially in a game like last night's.  AS LONG AS THEY ARE CONSISTENT.

The Franzen play was unusual and anything but minor or incidental.  It was malicious and intentional.  Franzen cross checks Backes in the face, drawing blood, then punches him in the head when he is down.  I'm not sure why you think Backes dove.  I just watched the replay a few times...didn't look like a dive to me.  And even if he did...does it matter?  It's still a major penalty on Franzen and 2 minutes on Backes.
Maybe if Backes had laid on the ice, face down, and writing in pain like Stuart did...then maybe a penalty is called.  Who knows.

I think if you are calling penalties on Steen and Reaves for ticky tack stuff (especially pushing Bertuzzi down at the side of the net), then you HAVE TO call Franzen for what he did.  My God.  Even if the refs missed the cross check to the face, one ref was right there and saw the punch to the head while he was down.

I'm sure every one of you guys thought the 3rd would be starting with the Blues on the PP.

That looks like 5 minutes and a game misconduct for Franzen if you ask me.  Just my opinion.

First...
Great game.  I think both teams played very well.  It was a playoff-like game and it was a good one.  The Blues definitely showed up to play...I was wondering how they would approach this game and they brought it.

Second...
The reffing was pretty bad.
How do they make those two calls on Steen and the overreaction call on Reaves (maybe two minutes for that, but 5 and a game??  Really?) and then not make a call on Franzen's cheap shot?  If you are going to make the calls like those on the Blues, you have to make the call on Franzen.  It was a dirty, cheap shot to the face that draws blood after the period is over.  How does that not get called?  Even the NBC guys were dumbfounded as to why there wasn't a call.  It should have been a major, it was intentional and it drew blood...it wasn't an accidental high stick that drew blood.
Anway...

Third...
Goaltending was very good.  All of the goals scored were good ones.  Nothing weak or "he should have had that one" type of goals.

I knew Bertuzzi was going to score.  I could just feel it.  I can't stand him, but that was a heck of a shot.

I thought the Blues had it...but Detroit did what they always seem to do against us...make a huge push late and tie it up/go ahead.  Kudos to them.  I want to say in 4 of the 6 games, the Blues had the lead in the 3rd four times...?  Not sure...I'd have to look it up.

I'd love to see the Blues and Wings in the playoffs.

No, but he's the one that gets shoved down our throats and treated like he's the second coming.

In all fairness, he is the best the NHL has seen since Lemieux and/or Gretzky...and has a chance if he stays healthy to have one of the best careers ever.

I can understand Detroit fans not liking him, as he is outspoken, is very good and has beaten Detroit in the finals recently...but as a Blues fan, there hasn't been anything on the ice in a Blues-Pens game to cause me to hate him.

Well if the Blues have been playing bad the last few games, then this game is even more important to them.  With only 3 games heading into the playoffs, another loss, especially to a team they so adamantly admit to be superior to themselves, beats them, it could severely mess with their psyche.  We all know Detroit can turn it on in the playoffs with the experience they have.  St. Louis, on the other hand, is a young team.  Young teams are more apt to getting down on themselves when they lose.  I think the last thing I would want as a blues fan is to see them enter the playoffs on a losing streak.

I agree with you.  You want to be playing well going into the playoffs.
I'm sure they've discussed that, and I'm sure the Blues really want to win the game, and the fans really want the Blues to win this game, but on the other hand, it shouldn't shock anyone if Detroit is the better team tonight if only for the mere fact that more is at stake for them.

The Blues have been playing each game this year like it was a playoff game. Pedal to the medal every night. They are the team that is playing like they have something to prove. That's why they're first in the central (it's pretty obvious the Wings have taken AT LEAST a dozen games off as a team this year). Now you're going to suggest that the savvy, veteran Wings team who, in the grand scheme of things, have little to prove to themselves or the league, are going to bust a nut tonight with the real hockey season just around the corner? While the young, exhuberant, Blues team will lay back for a game for the first time thes year? Talk about a spin. This s*** may fly on HF message boards, but not here. Give me a F#cking break.

I have news for you my friend...the Blues have NOT played pedal to the metal every night, especially not recently.  For most of the season, yes, they have been outstanding since Hitchcock took over and they deserve their spot in the standings.  But those who are paying attention (ahem...me, me, me.) have seen them struggle a bit off an on over the past couple weeks and they didn't look very good at all in their last 2 games.  They have also slipped from 1st overall to 3rd overall in that time.
I'm not sure if it's because they are already thinking about the playoffs, or if when they got all of their guys back and healthy it changed the lineup a bit and they need to adjust, or if it's just a regular old bump in the road that they'll turn around.

And I'm sure the savvy, veteran Wings team, who in the grand scheme of things, have little to prove to themselves or the league, still REALLY want home ice advantage in the first round and could quite possibly come with their "A game"...while the Blues, whom essentially have nothing to play for unless Vancouver blows their 3 pt. lead with two games left, may not have the same fire to win this game that Detroit does.

I'm not sure why that perfectly plausible scenerio is so difficult for you to understand.

If it makes you feel any better, I'll say the Blues win this game 3-1.

Ya but if St. Louis loses this game it doesn't matter but if the Red Wings lose than I would be really concerned... St. Louis fans watching hockey for the first time past February

You are a new NHL fan, aren't you?

Sounds like posturing to me.  Like, if the Wings win then it doesn't mean anything because the Boos don't have anything to play for.  Shenanigans.  Why would this game not be huge to the Blues as well?  They may have the division locked up but not the season-series against the Wings.  The Blues have won 2 games against the Wings this year and lost 3.  Neither team has lost on home ice in this series and I don't think the Blues want to start now.  The Blues still have a lot to prove.

Call it whatever you want.  But I doubt evening up the season series is much of a concern for St. Louis right now.  With where they are in the standings, why would they care that much about that?

There is a slim chance the Blues can still win the conference, so I guess they do have that to play for, but that probably won't happen.  The most important things for the Blues right now are to get some of the guys back from injury into playoff shape and to of course to stay healthy.

Sure, it would be nice to win this game, and believe me, I love a Blues victory over the Wings whenever we can get it, and I'd love to win this game for a couple reasons...but in the end, this game has no bearing on where the Blues will finish, so it would not shock me if the Red Wings come out and take this game...however, that would still piss me off.  

Honestly, if the Blues come out and take it to Detroit, I'd be concerned if I were a Wings fan.  Detroit SHOULD want this game a whole lot more than St. Louis.  But I guess that's why they play the games.

The Blues have slipped a little in their last two games.  They didn't play that well in either game.
St. Louis is pretty much locked into the #2 seed in the West, so this game doesn't mean a whole lot, aside from trying to turn around their recent two game skid.

Glad Elliott is in net...he currently has a 3 game shutout streak going...188 minutes straight or something like that.

We'll see how this game goes since it obviously means a whole lot more to the Wings than the Blues.

take it easy. I laready hate your team going to the playoffs and this is a goood sign. Blues are good and stimulate to write me more garbage aboute them.

Take it easy?

Uh...ok?

My point is the Wings were on perfect pace to surpass the Blues and ended up having multiple injuries at the same time to key players in the lineup (three of those being more important than any of those you listed) which allowed for the Blues to sneak past with relative ease.

You're saying that the Wings were going to surpass the Blues had they not had injury issues?  Might I remind you that the Blues have gone 9-1-1 over their last 11. Were the Wings going to go 11-0-0 over that stretch?  Where were the extra points going to come from?

And FYI...
Perron & McDonald were out at the same time.
Steen & D'Agostini are out at the same time (still out).  Other players are still out as well.
We've had significant members of this team out at the same time too.  No, they aren't at Datsyuk's level, but Steen was our best player when he went down and was a huge part of this team on the PP, PK and 5 on 5.

To act like the injuries to a team that relies on top talent don't make any difference (especially when the entire success of the Blues can be traced to the man behind the players and not the ability of one or two players themselves) is asinine.

I didn't say injuries to players don't make a difference.  I don't feel that way at all.

What I am saying is, don't act like the Blues injuries to Steen, Perron, McDonald, Langenbrunner, etc. are insignificant compared to the Wings injuries.

The Wings injuries say you are welcome, btw.

I'd still root for a Wings roster over the Blues.  Sue me.

McDonald
Steen
Perron
Langenbrunner
D'Agostini
Arnott

All missed significant time this season due to injury (there are a couple others who missed time as well, but I don't feel like looking it up).  Steen, whom at the time he got hurt, was the Blues best player.  He's been out for a long time and he's still out, and it's looking more and more like he is done for the season.  D'Agostini is still out as well, and probably won't be back either.
We've been hit with injury issues too.

I'll have my lawyer call your lawyer.

The Blues have had better teams than this in the past, and amounted to jack s***.

That's an opinion...and you are welcome to it.
But one could easily argue that from top to bottom, this is the best Blues team ever assembled.
From coaching, to goaltending, to defense, to offensive depth.  The only thing they don't have is an explosive offense with a superstar or two up front...yet they have been scoring at a higher clip lately, so that's promising.

But again, good/great Blues teams of the past have nothing to do with this team except for playing in the same city and being called the Blues.  I'm not sure why some like to bring that up.  Kind of stinks of desperation during a discussion.  The Blues President's trophy team from 12 years ago has nothing at all to do with how well the 2012 team will do.

I'm not predicting anything, because anything can happen, and it often does.
I'm just enjoying the return to respectability, being cautiously optimistic, and hoping for the best.

It also doesn't mean the Blues can't fall flat on their ass and be bounced in the 1st round.  It's just gibberish really.

Uhhh....usually when someone says so and so team is playing "playoff type hockey", they aren't implying that they could lose in the first round.

I'm not saying they can't lose, it f'ing happened to them the last time they won the President's trophy.
But I appreciate the attempt at making a smart-ass comment.  Nice effort.

Alright. After keeping a close eye on this thread and only ringing in to poke at Blues fans here and there, I'm going to throw down my two cents for real.

St.Louis have been the most consistent team in the NHL since Hitch's arrival. THIS is why they are 6 up in the central. They don't have any stinker games. They just play well every night. If Detroit doesn't take nights off against NYI, Montreal, Coulmbus, etc. they'd be even.

My main concern (if I was a Blues fan) is whether or not there is any room left in their game to elevate their play. Because I think Detroit, Chicago (for sure), Nashville, Vancouver (not as much) and San Jose (big time) can and most likely will crank it up a notch.

Say all you want about physical play and goaltending and defence. Measuring this against, say, regular season Chicago might not be reflective of how the wall holds up against post-season Chicago. Know what I mean?

When folks say, "The Blues are playing playoff style hockey", that doesn't mean anything other than they are playing very well.  It doesn't mean they can't find a higher gear or can't play any better.  It's just gibberish really.