cprice12

He got punched in the face. What else would he have done? And what could the players on the ice have done differently? There were 6 Blues forwards one the ice and all of them had a Wing tied up, leaving the 6th guy on Howard.

I don't like that those were the players out there, but what exactly is Howard supposed to do differently when he gets suckere punched in the face?

Just analyzed the replay.
Petro didn't look like he made contact with Howard when he took a swing, if he did he just grazed his shoulder, maybe the side of his mask...but he wasn't sucker punched.  And it looked like the puck came up, Howard had it on his chest, may have been fluttering a bit, Petro took a swing that goes over Howard's shoulder...maybe he's swinging at the puck trying to punch it in, not sure what he was doing because you lose sight of the puck from that camera angle.
Honestly, if he wanted to sucker punch him, he could have easily done so.

Either that, or he is a horrible fighter with terrible aim.

<br /><br /><br />

You're on the wrong forum.

You've been here almost 2 months.

I've been here almost 10 years.

Good enough?

K THANKS BYE.

There is so much crying going on over at the Blues board. They are convinced that the NBC announcers are in love with the Red Wings, that Stuart should be suspended for his hit, and that Howard instigated the fight at the end.
Also that Helm should have had a penalty when Carlo got called, and that Franzen's goal should have been discounted.

To be fair, Helm SHOULD have gotten an interference penalty.
Stuart's hit on Petro was a good hit, nothing illegal about it...but Stewart was right in defending his teammate.  Helm's hit on Petro would have been good except for the fact Petro didn't have the puck on the last one.  Carlo reacted poorly...either stand up for your teammate or don't...don't just put the guy in a headlock, what does that do?
Howard didn't instigate the fight, but he got off easy with only 2 minutes.  He was throwing punches at everyone.  He should have gotten a lot more, but it didn't matter...game was over.

Overall Detroit was the better team tonight.  They deserved to win.

With that said...I had some issues with a couple things.
Detroit's two power play goals probably shouldn't have happened...I'll explain.

1)  I don't think Stewart should have gotten an instigator penalty.  Yes, he approached Stuart and wanted to fight...that's obvious...but Stuart dropped his gloves first.  Stuart was a willing participant.  Stewart didn't drop his gloves and jump on Stuart.  I disagreed with that call.  You see fights start all of the time where one guy goes over to another guy and gives him a shot and says let's go, and the other guy agrees and the gloves come off.  That's the way I saw this...Stewart just went a long way to fight Stuart.

2)  Helm's hit on Pietrangelo late in the 3rd was textbook interference.  Petro was skating for the puck and he seemed to be a good 5 or 6 feet from the puck, hadn't touched it yet, and Helm destroys him.  If Petro would have had the puck, it would have been a great hit...but the only problem was he didn't have the puck.  Assuming Carlo still retaliates, it should have been 2 minutes on Helm and 2 minutes on Carlo.  It should have been 4 on 4 with 3 1/2 minutes left instead of a Detroit PP.

My first point is debatable.  I'm sure you can make a case that Stewart should have gotten the instigator and argue that...we could debate that all day since it comes down to rule interpretation.  But I don't see the 2nd point being debatable at all.  It's clearly interference on Helm, and just not called.

Congrats on the win.  Like I said, Detroit was the better team in this game.
Maybe we can even up the season series on the next game in St. Louis...and hopefully we beat Pittsburgh tomorrow to get right back to within 1 pt. of the Wings.

May the better team win.

Good luck fellas (but not too much).

I wonder which Blues player Shanny will decide to suspend for sneezing on a Wing player this time?  

The Blues, as good as they have been, probably need to see a slight increase in goal scoring if they are to keep pace and challenge for the Central Division or Western Conference crown.
Getting Steen and Andy Mac back soon should help, and it would be nice if Stewart or Berglund would get on track, which they have yet to do.
They seem to be able to score goals when they need them, and they had a nice outburst in early January, but the biggest concern Blues fans have is goal scoring...but it's hard to complain too much when they are winning.

You'll be looking for a new starting goalie next season...mark those words down....BUDDY.

I'd love to hear why you think this is the case.
Right now, the Blues have the best goaltending in the NHL (a team 1.91 GAA) and essentially have two #1's.  Enlighten me as to why you think they will all of a sudden need a new #1 to start next season.

Price, this isn't about "what's fair for everybody else".  This is a business an the entire goal is to make money.

If some teams who aren't as notable don't get into it, they need to focus on being a better franchise so the NHL can't afford not to put them in.  In Toronto's case, they are the hockey mecha of the entire world and their only real crime was being based in Canada.

The Blues have JUST started to gain relevancy and they are a secondary rival to other teams in the central (they don't have the original six luster or recent Stanley Cup championships or years of playoff dominance to hang their hat on), so I'm not sure what you expect.

I'm not upset the Blues aren't in it.  I don't expect them to be, and I never said they should be.
Sure, I'd like them to be in it, but I understand why they aren't...but that isn't my point...never has been.  I'm not sure why that keeps being brought up.  The Blues may get in in the future if they continue to play well, make the playoffs and it would help to acquire a superstar to market.  It's hard to market balanced scoring and a team game unless you are orginal six or have had recent success, even though they are fun to watch this year.

Anyway, my point is (for the fifth time) after next year, the NHL will have used recycled teams three times in a row in only the 6th year of the event.

I understand why they are doing it, I get it...that's not rocket surgery.  But I don't have to like it, and it's perfectly understandable why fans of other teams wouldn't like it.

I like the Winter Classic, I'll watch it no matter who is in it...but it would be nice to see new teams in it every year.

He's right guys. The Blues are a very good NHL team and will be a dominating force for years to come. St. Louis is a beautiful city that deserves to host winter classics and All-Star games.  Detroit's style of play is old and they shouldn't be in the spotlight so much more than St. Louis, a very proud NHL franchise.

Aside from the Blues being a good team right know, show me where I inferred anything close to what you are saying.

You don't like posting here, or reading on a...uh, last time I checked, A Detroit Red Wings Forum, then well, I don't need to show you where the door is. You can go to the only place in cyberworld bitching that the Blues aren't in the WC...I am sure you know the address...

So, first you ***** about all the Wings fans on a Wings forum (go figure) and now you wanna come in a bash our city? You aren't playing with a full deck of cards are you?

Yep, sure is! It will also be nice when we are in the SCF again, before the Blues.  Keep holding on to your dream that this is you best Blues team ever. You'll be looking for a new starting goalie next season...mark those words down....BUDDY.

Oh, and hey look, I too can neg for no reason...

What??
First off, most of what you commented on was me joking around.  You need to get a sense of humor.
Second, the rest of your comments don't even accurately reflect what I have said.

Congrats for completely misreading and misinterpreting my posts.

False....maybe do they research before you post something this dumb.

I was off by a year in my first comment, sue me.  That doesn't change my point.  After next year, there will have been recycled teams 3 years in a row in only six total years of the WC.

Thanks for the attack btw.

Surely you understand why other fans would be annoyed by this?  If not, I don't know what else to say.

Don't count your chickens buddy.

I'm not your buddy, friend.

Your team has been WAY better than this and didn't even get a sniff of the SCF, due mostly by the Detroit Red Wings, which explains your utter hatred for everything Red & White. Which is blatantly obvious by everything you post. And BTW, if the Blues had a decent enough following outside of St. Louis, there wouldn't be talks of Western Conference treason if the Wings headed East. They are the money maker in the West...that is why they are in the Classic...again. Odds are, they will be there a third time before St. Louis gets in once.

The Blues are on pace for 109 pts...which would be their 2nd best finish in team history behind the 114 pt. President's trophy team in '99-'00...and a better finish than the Conference Finals team of '00-'01.  Offensively, yes, there have been far better Blues teams...but overall, few have been better...so far.  There is a lot of hockey left to play yet though.  I'm not banking on anything yet...too much can happen.

Something tells me that if it were the Blues in it twice in four years, we wouldn't be reading your rants.

Well isn't that the obvious statement of the day.    

I doubt I'd complain.  But I would completely understand if other fans did.  From a fan's point of view, the NHL shouldn't recycle teams so quickly.

Or if they have actually won anything....ever.

Not sure what that has to do with anything...  But wait...oh yeah...I forgot where I was posting for a moment.

Ya, if they are playing in Detroit/Boston/New York/Chicago etc...

These blues fans make me laugh, they have so much jealousy and hatred for anything Detroit that everything they try to say objectively comes off smelling like rotten tomatoes or sour grapes. It's pretty nauseating.

Woah...hold on... "anything Detroit"??
Hmmm...
Why don't you put together a list for me?  Seriously.
I assume there are a few good places to eat?
I guess the Lions were fun to watch this year.
And hey, you can see Canada.  What else ya got?

Look this isn't about the Wings and it's not about Blues fans, so don't make it out to be that.  It's about the last 2 years of the WC and next year's WC all having recycled teams when the WC has only been around for 6 years after next year.  I'm not saying anything that a LOT of other fans aren't already thinking.

But hey, congrats on being in the WC again.  Must be nice.

2008 - Buffalo vs Pittsburgh
2009 - Chicago vs Detroit
2010 - Philadelphia vs Boston

I was off by a year.
My point is, after next year:
- Detroit:  Twice
- Pittsburgh:  Twice
- Philadelphia:  Twice

After the next WC, the last three will have had recycled teams.
In six years of the WC, three teams have been in it twice already.  That's a little ridiculous.
Granted, I understand why...ratings.  It's just getting old.

As for "recycling teams," there will have been four years between the Wings` two WC appearances, and 2013 will mark the first time that a Canadian team has partaken in it.

That's just spin.  I'm not really focusing on the Wings, just the constant appearance of the same teams over the past few years.
In each game after the first two, there has been one new team and one team that has been recycled.

Also, note that the nature of the event is such that small-market teams are disqualified. The Winter Classic is a prestige event for the NHL, and it's meant to draw a lot of viewers. The number of people who care about such teams as Dallas, Phoenix, Florida, Carolina etc. is vastly smaller than the group that will turn out to watch New York, Detroit, Boston etc. on TV. It is also necessary that the teams participating have been at least moderately successful over the prior seasons.

I am well aware of that.  And it makes sense.  I've made that comment before.
The Blues do have a decent following and traditionally get very good ratings when on national television.
The success part has alluded them in previous seasons, but it seems they have the ship righted...finally.  This was supposed to happen last year, but better late than never.

That said, I know that your rant reflects two things: one, your wish that the Blues would get the opportunity to participate in a WC; and two, your inferiority complex with respect to the Red Wings, established over the last 15 years of watching the Red Wings be vastly more successful and vastly more touted than your team.

First, I do not have an inferiority complex towards the Wings.  It's simply a sports rivalry-hatred kind of thing.  Don't read too much into it.  And that has nothing to do with my rant on the Winter Classic.  It's all about recycling teams so quickly.  Obviously Detroit deserves to be in it...I was surprised they didn't get in the first one, but whatever.  But being in it twice in four years?  Come on.  It's annoying.
Second... I don't have a second.

If the Blues manage to take their success thus far this season and continue it for a couple more seasons, and if they manage to do well in the playoffs, then perhaps you'll see them get one.

My thoughts exactly.  

Fans of southwestern and pacific teams will likely never see a Winter Classic, for obvious reasons.

I wouldn't say that.  I can easily see San Jose or LA getting in.

Obviously, the most glaring aspect is the climate. And in retrospect, when Pittsburgh was a major stretch/logistic nightmare to host a game, you'd have to wonder if a St. Louis or a Washington market will host a game anytime soon. That significantly reduces the amount of teams that can host an event.

Not true.
Back in the 90's, the NHL held a preseason outdoor game in Las Vegas, and the ice was fine.
It doesn't need to be below freezing to sustain ice.  And it's not actually ice, it has an additive in it that helps it stay frozen at higher temperatures.
Besides, the avg. temp for St. Louis on Jan. 1st is in the upper 30's.  So even if weather was an issue (which it isn't), chances are it would be ok temp-wise in St. Louis.
Now, with that said...I am sure the NHL wants the cold climate and possibility for snow...it just adds to the atmosphere of being a Winter event.  So I can see the event not being held in a warm climate for that reason.

Obviously you guys are excited, and you should be.

But speaking as a fan of another team, it's pretty irritating that the NHL keeps putting the same damn teams in the Winter Classic every couple years.  I'm sure you'd feel the same way if Detroit hadn't been in it yet and three other teams had been in it twice already in 5 years.

Obviously Wings and Leafs fans are happy, but I'm not so sure about most other fans.  I hear a lot of grumbling about recycled teams and how people are losing interest because of that (maybe just talk...I'm sure they'd still watch it).
Yes, the original six match up is cool, it's an old rivalry between Toronto and Detroit, I get it...but the NHL needs to get some new teams in there.

You know Chicago will get it again in a year or two (hopefully against St. Louis, in St. Louis)...and surely if Crosby ever comes back, Pittsburgh will get it again in a 2-3 years.  So I fully expect the trend of recycling teams to continue.  I just hope the Blues get in before the NHL decides to scrap the Winter Classic due to falling ratings or the novelty wearing off, or whatever.

Not sure what you think I get....

I won't go as far to question why Cole gets suspended on not Datsyuk...completely different plays.  I can understand questionning whether Datsyuk's hit was clean or not though...that could potentially be debatable, but whether it is suspension worthy or not isn't debatable in my opinion.

Somebody doesn't get it.  

But seriously, I agreed with everything I quoted you on above.
And I've said that I don't have a problem with Cole getting suspended, just the length of suspension.

But I am afraid you are wrong about Datsyuk's hit not being debatable on if it is or isn't suspension worthy...we've been debating it for few pages now.

A lot of Wings fans think it's not suspension worthy.  A lot of Blues fans think it could be and wanted it reviewed.
I've heard mixed reviews from other folks who comment after videos and articles.
Not surprising really.

However, to reference an earlier portion of this thread...on the Datsyuk-Jackman hit, I think it's very interesting that the Red Wings blogger at kuklaskorner said, "...a problem that still seems to exist for the NHL is a lack of consistency in terms of dealing with such hits. For instance, Pavel Datsyuk appeared to get away entirely with a hit to Barret Jackman’s head during the same game."
Again, thanks to Leftwinger for requesting that I find "just one" non-Blues fan article that said Datsyuk got away with one...and the first one I find is from none other than an actual Red Wings blogger on a pretty prominent hockey commentary/reporting site.  I find that hilarious.  

My point... it's not just Blues fans.

Anyone tired of this debate yet?  I am.

I never said Datsyuk's shoulder never hit his face, but he did flop his back like he was ready to go down on Pete North. He tried to embellish it and the refs weren't biting. Not only did he flop his head back, he also decided he should violently bounce off the glass to make it seem even worse. That is a 10 on the Crosby scale of diving. Yes, Dats made contact with his head (not the principle contact though) and Jackman decided that he would try to get the refs attention by embellishing to play.



I would say that could even be a Bill Laimbeer flop...

Wow...and I'm the one who was accused of "spinning"?  Well done.