HOCKEY MATTERS

Okey doke, here's a few observations from last night (both good and bad) which I think bear heavily of the effectiveness of this team.  I'm not going to talk about personnel moves because that's purely speculative at this point, and it's also beaten to death.  So...

 

1.  Pavel Datsyuk should never EVER play on the wing.  Arguably the best playmaking center in the game, and without doubt the best stickhandler in the history of the game, needs to be carrying the puck.  Period. 

 

2.  After Babs shook up the line combos there was a couple of quick scoring chances, and I generally liked the makeup of the first line after the change.  Prior to the first game when the lines were announced, I thought putting Pav,Z, and Brunner was a mistake.  No net front presence, two guys that need the puck to be effective, nobody that can power the puck into the zone, or hang onto it against big defensemen.  That has born out in reality.  From here on out I'd like to see Pav, Brunner, Franzen together and Zetterberg, Flip (on the wing), and Sammy/Bert.  Nyquist and Flip should NEVER EVER play on a line together if it can be helped.  Watching them overpass last night instead of take it to the net was infuriating.

 

3.  The fourth line is super effective, and once Abby (who's also looking good) gets on it they are going to wreck shop.  Expect bigger minutes from these guys in the future and eventually a lot more scoring.  Also, Tootoo is awesome as hell.

 

4.  Brian Lashoff, after another safe, effective, and poised game does not come out of this lineup any time soon.  This kid's game translates well to the NHL because he's a good decision maker who doesn't try to do too much in terms of generating offense.  He plays defense, gets the puck safely to the forwards, and his job is done.  I like it, and we need more of it. 

 

5.  All in all the defense looked better last night, across the board.  Quincey wasn't as bad as the last two games.  Everyone played better.  But thank god for Jimmy Howard, who's been a hero all three games.

 

6.  Special teams:  The PK looked better, but again, thank god for Howard.  The PK will continue to improve as Helm, Eaves, and Ericsson get into the lineup/get playing optimally.  The PP on the other hand, looks lost.  It's as if they believe if they continue to pass it around enough, Lidstrom will magically appear and take the point shot for them.  They need a lot more coaching to learn this new system, which is the one thing they haven't had so far this season.  As they get a little time to learn it the system will work, but we have to remember that we've got four guys on the first PP who have always run a PP the same way for their whole careers.  The change is necessary, but hard won.  I like the new look though, with Brunner and Kronwall rotating between the point and the half boards, that movement is going to pay off.  Almost did for Brunner against Columbus, had he one timed the puck.  Once he learns his shooting angles he'll improve on the PP as well.

Please no. Let's try to continue not doing anything that resembles the Nashville fan base.

I deleted more posts because they went from discussing the lockout to making personal comments about the person they're quoting.

Want your posts to live in this thread? Stay on topic and discuss the lockout.

Want them to disappear?  Keep making personal accusations about each other.

If you haven't noticed, the rules are being enforced tightly in this thread because of all the crap that's gone on and multiple warnings being ignored.

I actually forget which Cup it was (nice problem to have), I think it was 2002 when the crowd at the Joe kept chanting LOUDLY "SHOOT THE PUCK" and they actually did,. maybe, I don't know, a little pressure from the home crowd if they can win this next one

I was at the game last night and on several occasions, I heard various parts of the crowd yelling "Shoot!  Shoot it!" myself included.  They eventually would but always too late.

The crowd looks/sounds as narcoleptic as the team on the ice.  I'd love for the fans to get into the game, maybe light a fire under their asses, but the fans would have to attend the game, and then stay the whole game in order for that effect to take place.

Last night there were quite a few times, especially in the third where the fans were booing (and not just for Weber).  Every time another PP failed, and especially at the end of the game.  The team has stated that they did not like being booed off the ice at the end of last season, and that was part of the reason they wanted to up their game at home this year.  After the streak, that seemed to go out the window.  You would think that hearing it during the last regular season games and during the playoffs would be enough of a trigger to get them going.  And not many people left until about the last minute and especially after the third goal last night.  In fact, from about 2:47 on in the third, EVERYONE was on their feet for the remaining minutes.  That was when they had showed the video montage they always do at the end to "make noise" with clips from different movies.

If Detroit can pull out of this, they need to remember that "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."  Rinne is good but not infallible.  If all the shots you are putting on this goalie are from the right and left point, he is going to see it and stop it.  In games 1-3, they had some really good chances when all three forwards came in hot and heavy, but stupid things like Hudler never being able to catch a pass on his stick and one time it, prevented that from going any further.  That and this damn hold onto the puck and skate the whole perimeter of the offensive zone s*** has to stop.  Get traffic in front of Rinne, storm the crease, be there for the rebounds when they come.  Their star players need to start pulling their weight and showing why they have these hefty contracts (Franzen, Datsyuk, Filppula).  And for God's sake, hustle!  Don't stare at the puck when it's two feet in front of you and wait for the Pred player to get and come to you.  Get some jump in your step and show that you actually want to be a playoff contender instead of just coasting into the playoffs to add another tick to the tally of consecutive years in the playoffs and then not caring what happens after that.  /rant.

Dave Strader (who many of us remember well) is covering the series for NBCSports.  He reports that after the morning skate today the Preds were using the ping pong tables outside the dressing rooms to relax.  Big Bert stepped out, told them that if they wanted to play ping-pong, they'd have to bring their own table; then he folded the table up and wheeled it into the Wings room.   CLASSIC!
follow Dave Strader on Twitter if thats your thing.  @TheVoiceDS

GO WINGS

I know we've won two games but man were they good ones.  This is a thread of Pre-Playoff relief now that we have most of our guys back and we are playing like the team we know and  love. Repaired, dialed in and finally tearing it up..  our Boys are back in town!!

GO WINGS!!

Good to see one of our top players become the whipping boy. All the years of idiots bitching about scrubs of marginal impact was getting stale.

I thought about interjecting some rationality, but decided it would be pointless. Those who want to hate Franzen will do so regardless. They'll overstate his flaws, downplay or outright dismiss his strengths. Once he goes on another hot streak you'll all go back to jerking off to his picture while burning Ericsson in effigy.

Goal and assist tonight. On pace for 30+ goals, and career highs in assists and points. Yeah, such awful depreciation.

I'm starting to realize how retarded you really are each and every time you post here. Please, spare us the extra stress on our eyes and just be quiet. You ensure us that we're not all crazy and Vancouver fans really are that dumb.

I've come down on Monster a couple times in the past but to criticize Monster (and me by proxy) so heavily is a little unfair. He may be wrong about the timing of the GDT but he's certainly correct in saying this is a big game that's getting a lot of attention from fans (and the media). It's the two western conference powerhouses meeting for a game that could determine first place overall in the NHL - plus that whole streak thing you guys got going. It's one thing to criticize when there's a valid reason, but to criticize like you have based on a statement that is at least partially correct seems to me to be more reflective of how you feel about the Canucks and their fans rather than anything particularly shameful that Monster said.

But to the game - whenever I see the GDT's here and the "Projected Starters" and "Injury Report" banners I assume those are hot-linked to another page but that never seems to happen. Maybe that's a FireFox issue though.

Vancouver Canucks' Starting Lineup:

D. Sedin - H. Sedin - Burrows
Booth - Kesler - Raymond
Hansen - Hodgson - Higgins
Weise - Malhotra - Lapierre

Hamhuis - Bieksa
Edler - Salo
Rome - Tanev

Tanev is a good young defenceman and is expected to crack the top four within a year or so.

Luongo is expected to start but I don't think that's been officially announced yet. Canucks play the Devils the next night so Schneider will most certainly get at least one of those games. He has been trusted to play big games against big teams but I'd expect Luongo to get the Wings game. The wild card in this is that I'm sure both Luongo and Coach Vig would like to see Luongo go head to head against Brodeur.

Higgins missed practice yesterday.

Murphy @sportsnetmurph
#canucks Higgins blocked a shot in 3rd period (against Nashville) and needed stitches to close a cut. His finger is not broken and he expects to play in DET.

Canuck Killers:
Pavel Datsyuk - 34GP, 9G, 15A, 24Pts
Henrik Zetterberg - 33GP, 10G, 13A, 23Pts
Nicklas Lidstrom - 76GP, 13G, 42A, 55Pts

Wing Killers:
Daniel Sedin - 41GP, 14G, 24A, 38Pts
Henrik Sedin - 43GP, 8G, 30A, 38Pts
Ryan Kesler - 25GP, 7G, 12A, 19Pts

The Canucks have a decided advantage on special teams but that means nothing come game time today. The fact that their powerplay is still first in the league only speaks to how dominant it was early in the season. It has struggled for a couple months now as has the entire team with the exception of the goaltending tandem which has managed to pull out the wins. The team struggles appear to have ended recently though.

I'm expecting a potential game of the year with a playoff atmosphere. Good luck guys and girls.

Before anyone else even chimes in with the thought too - Marchand didn't NEED to do this to protect himself, but if Salo wasn't so determined in creaming him, he could have moved or gotten low as well... He only got "clipped" because he was trying and determined to make a high hit...

why is everyone giving you minuses?  marchand is short, salo is tall, and yes, salo was gonna try to hit marchand high so he took the low road.  he only got suspended cause salo got a concussion.  if ALL of the canucks weren't such assholes, people wouldn't go after them like they do.  hasn't anyone heard lately that no one in the league has any respect for the ****** bag canucks team?  they're dirty, yet they dive like no team you've ever seen.  the canucks are a mockery to the NHL.

Sorry Esquire, I agree with Barrie.
If a historic hockey event like 21 straight home wins in the NHL is listed below the three stories you mentioned, then it's hardly an example of Canada knowing hockey.
Sorry, I just don't see it.

Their 20th straight home win - a historic hockey event - was top billing on TSN when they tied the record. A number of their recent wins leading up to that 20th have also made top headlines. Everybody who knows hockey was already aware of the implications of the game, and you can only write about the streak so many times before you start just recycling the same thing over and over. People ***** and moan about the hockey media constantly reporting on Crosby's concussion despite a lack of new material to write upon yet are up in arms about this?

You guys really need to get the collective stick out of your ass and find SOMEthing else to do with yourselves other than whine. The history books will hold up a lot longer than TSN's headlines, trust me.

I usually attempt to steer away from this thread for certain reasons.  I have commented and been negged frequently, and even banned from lgw for a full seven days for comments.  In turn I took a lengthy break from this site, I think over a year.  I still have issues with certain mods and posters.   Its obvious from my location, I am in Arizona.  I actually live within walking distance to Westgate, which is the huge complex, that is full of retail stores, cinemas, restaurants, bars, University of Phoenix stadium, where the Arizona Cardinals play, as well as Jobing.com Arena.  This area of Glendale is very nice, no crime, no tagged walls, and no trash.

The Cardinals are the backbone of this area.  It's the NFL, so of course its a huge money maker.  But losing the Coyotes, would be huge, and it would be hard on the area.   I know that most of hockey nation, believes Arizona, Georgia,  and Florida are jokes for hockey markets.  And to be honest, its a legitimate belief.   When Carolina, Dallas, and Anaheim got their teams, the hockey world rolled their eyes, with a big wtf!  Obviously the differences are the ownership that was in place early on.  That and they achieved success with a Cup.  Aside from recent issues of the past few seasons in Dallas, those markets are viable.  Maybe not 'traditional hockey market' viable, but none the less.  If ownership here at some time prior to the BK filing fiasco, stepped up and grew a pair, this wouldn't even be a conversation.   Ownership, with Gretzky did a nice job of getting a team in place and getting people excited early on, but at a very high price.  

I think a move is inevitable.  I think the league is growing tired of this burden out here.  I think Bettman is still orgasming over the quickness of the poor situation in Atlanta, and how everything was done and moved.  And somehow was able to not look like a total dips*** in the process.  That situation was quickly turning into another Phoenix debacle.  As a true Red Wing fan of 30 years, a native of Detroit, and a man who suffers from an 'emotionally abusive relationship' with his hockey team, and a resident of Glendale, Arizona, I live and die with this team, just like all of you.  The Coyotes have helped fill a void for me and my kids over the years.  We love the game.  I love talking to them about it, the discipline it takes, and how it relates to real life success.  You know, it's obvious when the Blue Jackets are in town, the majority of the filled seats are Phoenix season ticket holders, and the remainder pretty open.   When Detroit, Chicago, NY, and other marquee teams are in the building, the building is full, and almost embarrassing for the home team.  Which is not the sign of a viable, money making organization.  But make no mistake, Coyotes GM Maloney is a hell of a GM, and is the glue that has kept this team winning and making the playoffs.  He is still making deals, and refuses to acknowledge the ' could bee's'.   So when this team leaves this transient state, of snowbirds, retirees, and transplants, we as true hockey fans suffer.  This is my connection with my boys.  Its an opportunity to see Stamkos, AO, Malkin, Jagr, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Lidstrom, the Kronwall Krunch, and the rest.  I see my team twice a year, and four playoff games the last two seasons.  I know no one here is concerned with Glendale, or Arizona, or their off the collar politics.  So I hope for all of you die hards wanting a team in QC or KC, Seattle, or wherever, because this situation here is draining all of your hockey happiness, I wish you good luck!  But I am not looking forward to it, nor would I support it.

Everyone wants to see all 30 teams pulling their weight.  Coyotes fans included.  They just want it resolved already.  The true Coyote fans are good, loyal, and somewhat hockey educated.  Unfortunately there just isn't a lot of them.  Though there has been substantial talk of a minor league affiliate, being a tenant, if the Coyotes left.  Which is optimistic.  Yes there would be hockey, but no Wings!  

I always have believed, and still do, that you don't need cold snowy weather to love hockey.  You just need people running it, who know what the f*** they are doing!

So keep negging my posts and giving me s***, and personal insults.   It truly doesn't matter to me.

Here's my stance, I can go on for hours so i'll try to make it brief.

The problem with study and research in fields like this is that everything is left to interpretation and there's so much hoaxing and tampered "evidence" that it's made a mockery of it as a whole. 99.9% of video and audio evidence is faked, which has made trudging through everything available very non-credible.

With that said, when I was younger I grew up in a house in Pennsylvania, the basement was partially remains of the underground railroad during the slave movement. It extended nearly a half mile underground until a point where it was either closed off or it had collapsed. My closest neighbors were over a mile away, and there really was no path that connected this railroad to another home. On dozens of occasions I heard muffled voices that used to terrify me when I was a child, but it grew more into curiosity as I got older. I could never make out words but I could distinguish male from female voices. It was never conversations, but more two or three word phrases that would occur anywhere from five minutes to an hour apart.

So were these ghosts? I really don't have an answer for it, but I would consider it paranormal as it went unexplained without a logical reason behind it. There are caverns in New Mexico that are a major tourist attraction, you can walk through these rock caverns and hear the cries and chants of native americans. Does this make it a paranormal event? Not necessarily. Limestone deposits can act as a battery, and points in time under the right conditions can be recorded and replayed, or cause a residual audio effect. Is it more likely that during a thunderstorm with the right amount of electricity and the correct combination of minerals recorded events from the past and continues to replay it like an audio recorder? Yeah I believe it is very likely, and it could offer an explaination from what I experienced.

Carl Sagan wrote that there are more stars in the sky than there are grains of sand on every beach on our planet. If you can even wrap your head around a number like that, it's literally billions upon billions of stars. This entire universe with all those stars and we are the only planet that can harbor life? It's really doubtful. Intelligent beings? Who knows, the universe is endless, and it's very possible that we may never know in this lifetime. Single celled organisms, plants, even fish or animals, yeah I gotta say that it's more possible than not. Again, with all recorded evidence being faked or hoaxed, no I don't think any UFO sightings outside of the Phoenix Lights have any kind of validity. But let's be real here, say we DID have the technology to visit another planet, we would explore right? So has something come here to observe and study us? Probably not, but it may be possible. Nothing I have seen has convinced me though.

I think Bigfoot is pretty much blown out of proportion at this point, there's been sightings around the world, all continents, most of all countries. My gripe with this, NO species of animal makes it's home across all of the continents. It just doesn't happen that way and the overabundance of sightings worldwide has pretty much eliminated the possibility of something like this existing. Sightings limited to one region of the world are more logical, but not necessarily true. Loch Ness? I know i've seen the great lakes and they look like the ocean. Are there species that live in the furthest depths that man still hasn't seen by man? I think absolutely there is. Are there "sea creatures"? More likely not. I believe most cases are misidentified, as most video footage is always blurry.

So that's about my general opinion, i'm open minded, but logical and skeptical. I have had strange instances in my life that brought me to open the page I run so there is a level of belief on my end, but i'm not going to post footage from Ghost Hunters and call it legitimate.

His shoulder very cleary hits the guy in the facemask. Doesn't make it a dirty hit or even a penalty, but there was contact with the head. I don't know the college rule, and going by NHL rules I wouldn't call it a penalty. I wouldn't say the head was targetted or the principle point of contact.

Just saying that with all the attention on head hits and concussions, I can understand why a call was made.


There's a reason slippery slope arguments are considered fallacious. Refs are probably a little over-zealous when calling headshots. That doesn't mean it won't improve as refs and players adapt to the new rules, and certainly doesn't mean that refs will become over-zealous in calling other types of hits.


No one is trying to get rid of body checks. They are trying to reduce head injuries. I would think that head injuries are more 'universally undesireable' than tapping a guy on the hip or mitts with a stick.

A good arm tackle used to be considered "defense". Used to be fine (sometimes still is) to rub a guy out along the boards after he chips the puck past you. Used to be fine to try to take a guys head off if he didn't see you coming.

Yes, there are inherent risks to the game. However, exaclty what those risks are hasn't been known for long, and I'd bet are still not widely understood by the players. Head injuries can have permanent debilitating effects on people. Players have been getting bigger and faster. Equipment gives better protection so players feel the need to more agressive. As the game becomes more violent, and the risks better understood, you'll get adaptations like this to minimize those risks.

Yeah, maybe you'll see people pulling up on these hits more often. And really, so what? Hits like that happen maybe once a game. If that's all hockey is to you then I'd have to say you're no more a fan of hockey than the guy who tunes into NASCAR for the crashes is a fan of racing. There are big hits that don't involve head contact, and they very rarely result in injury. If anything, I'd expect players to become more adept at laying a big hit without hitting the head.

People always say they don't want to see someone get injured, but it seems to me that is exactly what they want. Maybe not a lasting injury, but you all sure cheer loud enough when someone gets knocked senseless. Well, guess what. That's a brain injury. Maybe not severe, maybe not one that will cause any lasting harm, but an injury just the same. We still do not really understand how those little injuries can add up.

Much better to err on the side of caution. Worst-case we see fewer big hits and fewer injuries. Players are always going to push the envelope; try to get away with as much as possible without crossing the line (or getting caught doing so at least). If you're too lax with the rules, the worst-case is you see a lot more frequent and more severe head injuries. I'd certainly prefer the former.

Well said.  Question: do you ever get tired of being reasonable and considerate when you respond to this stuff?  Seems like having to sift through ten tons of reactionary bulls*** everyday would begin to take it's toll.  Either way, keep up the good work.

Not sure how you see Ramage's shoulder going into the Oliver's face, looks clearly to be hitting him in the shoulder on all the replays. Major point of impact is low causing the guy's stick to snap like a twig. Ramage doesn't leave his feet at all or charge leading up to the hit in any way. The check couldn't have been any cleaner. When I saw Ramage getting a penalty I was shaking my head in disbelief. Then, after a 5 minute discussion by the officials, they tossed him. It was absolutely jaw dropping.
...

His shoulder very cleary hits the guy in the facemask. Doesn't make it a dirty hit or even a penalty, but there was contact with the head. I don't know the college rule, and going by NHL rules I wouldn't call it a penalty. I wouldn't say the head was targetted or the principle point of contact.

Just saying that with all the attention on head hits and concussions, I can understand why a call was made.

...Like Newfy commented, hockey used to be a contact sport. Anyone that played hockey from Bantam level on needed to learn that if you come through the neutral zone with your head down like Oliver did you had a good chance of getting flattened. These type of calls you feel are "questionable" are on the rise. The more calls made like this, the more players will pull up from making a body check to avoid a possible penalty, and the more players with feel comfortable skating through the middle with their heads down. The sport of hockey, just like anything in life, adapts to the constructs of the environment it is in.
...

Hockey is always changing. It's never the same as we "knew it". Apparently it is changing for the better in your opinion, which is cool. I like how someone like Kronwall plays and don't want to have to worry if every big check he makes will end up in a suspension along with a 5 on 5 scrum. Personally I enjoy a nice solid body check as part of the game and don't think it should be legislated out of the sport. How many of these "bad calls" would we have seen 10 years ago? Buppy said he would have given the hitter a pass. No s***, because it was clearly a horrible call. One that no ref would have even contemplated anytime before 2 years ago. That is the entire point.......

There's a reason slippery slope arguments are considered fallacious. Refs are probably a little over-zealous when calling headshots. That doesn't mean it won't improve as refs and players adapt to the new rules, and certainly doesn't mean that refs will become over-zealous in calling other types of hits.

I get where you're coming from Harold, but I think you're comparing a bit of apples to oranges here.

(Apples)Clutching, grabbing, and hooking are considered universaly to be undesirable aspects in a hockey game. Dats shouldn't have to fight through hooks, and neither should have Gretzky. To call that tighter opens up the game making it better. You're right that the players did adapt and we see less of that god-awful clutching & grabbing now because of the rules being enforced.

(Oranges)Bodychecks on the other hand are a desirable aspect of the game(IMHO). No one wants to see someone get injured obviously, but the game of hockey comes with inherent risks. Concussions being one of them. When calls like this are even in the refs conciousness because of the current climate, it is going to cause that same adaptation we saw with clutching & grabbing occur with hitting.

I think the game should err on the side of no call in these instances. Kronner's type of hits I see as OK. He is always North-South and isn't taking 10 steps(Pronger) before laying into someone. If they don't want to get hit they need to keep their head up(I'm looking at you Havlat). Making the call of feet being on ice before or after contact being made is way to difficult in game speed for refs to determine so shouldn't be a factor IMO. Again, err on the side of the hitter.

No one is trying to get rid of body checks. They are trying to reduce head injuries. I would think that head injuries are more 'universally undesireable' than tapping a guy on the hip or mitts with a stick.

A good arm tackle used to be considered "defense". Used to be fine (sometimes still is) to rub a guy out along the boards after he chips the puck past you. Used to be fine to try to take a guys head off if he didn't see you coming.

Yes, there are inherent risks to the game. However, exaclty what those risks are hasn't been known for long, and I'd bet are still not widely understood by the players. Head injuries can have permanent debilitating effects on people. Players have been getting bigger and faster. Equipment gives better protection so players feel the need to more agressive. As the game becomes more violent, and the risks better understood, you'll get adaptations like this to minimize those risks.

Yeah, maybe you'll see people pulling up on these hits more often. And really, so what? Hits like that happen maybe once a game. If that's all hockey is to you then I'd have to say you're no more a fan of hockey than the guy who tunes into NASCAR for the crashes is a fan of racing. There are big hits that don't involve head contact, and they very rarely result in injury. If anything, I'd expect players to become more adept at laying a big hit without hitting the head.

People always say they don't want to see someone get injured, but it seems to me that is exactly what they want. Maybe not a lasting injury, but you all sure cheer loud enough when someone gets knocked senseless. Well, guess what. That's a brain injury. Maybe not severe, maybe not one that will cause any lasting harm, but an injury just the same. We still do not really understand how those little injuries can add up.

Much better to err on the side of caution. Worst-case we see fewer big hits and fewer injuries. Players are always going to push the envelope; try to get away with as much as possible without crossing the line (or getting caught doing so at least). If you're too lax with the rules, the worst-case is you see a lot more frequent and more severe head injuries. I'd certainly prefer the former.

Bad calls don't spell the end of hockey as we knew it.

Quit being melodramatic.

Hockey is always changing. It's never the same as we "knew it". Apparently it is changing for the better in your opinion, which is cool. I like how someone like Kronwall plays and don't want to have to worry if every big check he makes will end up in a suspension along with a 5 on 5 scrum. Personally I enjoy a nice solid body check as part of the game and don't think it should be legislated out of the sport. How many of these "bad calls" would we have seen 10 years ago? Buppy said he would have given the hitter a pass. No s***, because it was clearly a horrible call. One that no ref would have even contemplated anytime before 2 years ago. That is the entire point.......