I could go back and select at least 3-4 posts where you were just pretty much dumping. I didn't respond to to the first few but maybe I should have. And I'll clue you. I'm probably old enough to be your parent. We're both lucky I'm not.
And it is my usual habit to read the board after the game is over.
Welcome to LGW by the way.
The place where "true wings fans" dump on their team through the tough times and the non-cup winning years, and then take credit as true fans when they win. You sound surprised when you see this behavior. Hell, its commonplace around here.
Sounds to me like you need to quit confusing legitimate complaints about the team right now (and they do exist) and people who no longer have any interest in the Red Wings, or never had any to begin with. Who the hell died and left you the authority on who is and who is not a fan? I don't recall Matt or any of the other modmins bestowing you with that ability. It's rude and it's presumptuous. So knock it off.
Legit complaints I have no issue with. Declaring the team dead and buried is bandwagon talk. Just my .02 cents.
Obviously, I forgot the sarcasm tags for people who are slow. Excuse that oversight.
Well put, Nightfall. I totally agree with you but that's the way it is unfortunately. When the sun's shining, there is really no better team or organization to root for. And I think that's where people fail to see how utterly ridiculous they sound when they sit there and blast out hyperbole and expect for others to read it with any credibility.
Just stop, please. This team hasn't looked hungry enough, I'll grant all of you that. Opinions are obviously something that this forum and site are all about, and for the most part you are all the most knowledgeable and passionate Red Wings fans I have heard from. You are all better than most that seem to lead you on and make it seem like the "cool thing" to do to just unload idiotic statements in regards to this team. I realize the "realists" in here are playing it safe because they can simply say "I told you so" when the time comes for the Wings to get axed in the playoffs and they can rejoice if we advance. Nothing changes, just keep in mind that supporting a team might be tough sometimes but being a bandwagoner, well, that's reserved for crap fanbases like Chicago. Don't liken yourselves to that.
I believe that the bandwagon fans will leave this forum and go somewhere else. I believe that those that are counting us out of the season should just cancel their accounts and go somewhere else. What a bunch of pansies. Seriously, one bad game and everyone is hitting the panic button? Oh, and one last thing....
I believe in the Red Wings. Always have, always will.
Why does everyone say that a game will be 3 hours longer if the officiating is fixed? That's such an overreaction to a very modest statement.
Nowhere did I say that every single play should be reviewable, so please don't put words in my mouth to make my comments sound absurd. All I said was that the replay system as it is now is very flawed. There is a very vague line as to what is reviewable, and what isn't. It is so flawed that sometimes simple plays take 10 minutes to review, instead of 30 seconds. Fixing the review system should make it faster, not longer. I never said every single play should be reviewable.
Ref homers like you love to jump to the argument that games will be hours longer if the review system is fixed, which is ridiculous. If anything, review improvements will speed up the game while also functioning as it should - to get the call correct.
Calm down cowboy.
I asked you to make some recommendations as to what you would change. I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth. So what changes would you make to the system to make it better and faster? You spoke a good line there, but offered no specifics. I am eagerly awaiting your reply.
Speaking of putting words in peoples mouths, I said it would be 30 minutes longer (total of 3 hours if you would have taken the opportunity to read what I wrote) not "hours longer" like you said. Also, calling me out to be a ref homer because I am looking to improve the game as well? Come on man. So I guess in the "putting words in your mouth" statement applies to you as well. Not that you will apologize for it....
Lets discuss how we can make reffing better here. At least I brought ideas to the table with specifics.
I have watched that Zetterberg play over and over, zero hook. None.
You have the benefit of slow motion and instant replay. If you really want to put yourself in a position of being a ref, follow these situations.
You are on the ice and see something happen. You have an instant to make a call or not make one. You have no benefit from instant replay. What do you do? Its all about perception. Odds are, if anyone is put in that situation, there are going to be good calls and bad calls. The Wings have benefitted and gotten screwed a couple times this season from both sides.
As a ref, there are sometimes I wish I had the ability to slow time down and rewind plays in my head. Then I would be the best ref in the game.
I have been a USA hockey referee for a few years now. Back when I first got my start, I can tell you that it was not as easy as I thought. I really enjoy it which is why I continue to do it. Perception is everything, and you won't catch everything that happens in the course of a game. Some things you do call will be totally wrong. Even the best referees in the world don't get every call right.
All these things being said, I have also found in my travels that the team that wins doesn't complain about the reffing as much as the team that loses. Sure, they both complain, but the one that gets the short end of the stick always complains. This is never going to change.
There are many calls the Wings have gotten where nothing has happened. All wings fans praise and love these calls. Others go against the Wings for nothing, and the fans ***** about the reffing and how its a conspiracy. So, let me get this straight. If a call goes for the Wings where the Wings didn't get tripped or just fall on accident, its ok. If a call goes against the Wings where someone fell and the Wings weren't involved, its reffing failure?
I don't subscribe to reffing conspiracy theories. There are going to be missed calls in the progression of the game. There are going to be calls that shouldn't be called in the progression of the game. Human beings are going to perceive things differently. Now that you have television in the mix where you can slow down and really analyze the play, every call can be questioned.
I believe the NHL has the best professional hockey refs. At the same time though, they perform like any other ref would perform. When the game is played at that high of a level, mistakes are going to happen. If the NHL was hell bent on fixing those mistakes, they would change the reffing system. For instance, one of the things they tried at the combine this year was one ref on the ice while the other ref is standing on a platform overlooking the glass. Both refs can call penalties. What they found was that the ref up high caught more legit penalties than the ref on the ice. I am all for a system like this to be honest with you, but the hockey purists would not be happy.
In closing, there are a couple things I want to point out....
1. I firmly believe before you get upset with the refs, you should put the stripes on and ref. It really opens your eyes to the world of refereeing and you will see, even at the rec league level, that it isn't as easy as you thought it would be. Even you will make mistakes, even after years of reffing.
2. I also firmly believe that the best team always wins in the end. The refs didn't screw the Wings out of the game last night. The Wings defense went to sleep on the two goals that Chicago scored in the game. The Wings were lucky to get to OT last night thanks to the bank shot off of the defenseman's skate.
3. As for the playoffs, I also believe that the best team wins a 7 game series. The refs may make a bad call which results in one team winning a game, but things always seem to work out. A team down 2-0 in a series will turn it on to make it a series if they want it bad enough. The refs don't decide 7 game series, the players do.
It's more like proof that posts can be easily dismissed by some people.
Goaltending is always going to be a question mark to people in Detroit. You name any goalie in our last 4 cup championship teams, and all of them have been under the magnifying glass. Even after they win a cup, no respect is given to them. This is the way it is always going to be in Detroit. Even last year when Howard was solid in net and helping us get into the playoffs, people here and other Wings fans I know never gave him any credit. Today, its no different. If Howard plays amazing, it is what he is supposed to do. Anything less, and its horrible. Being as that no goalie plays at that high of a level every game, there is no goalie who is good enough to goaltend in Detroit.
You should change your user name to Howard He Don't Do It.
Although the defense has been subpar, I don't think they're leaving him out to dry anymore than other teams are with their netminders. He's near last in the league in GAA and save % for starting goalies. I don't think our defense is the "worst" in hockey, to deserve those numbers. Last year there wasn't much pressure on him, so he did well. However, this season, he's shown that he can't handle the pressure of being the goalie in Hockeytown.
This post is just further proof that according to some Wings fans no goalie is good enough to goaltend in Detroit.
the wings have been outscoring teams to win cause howard has been horribly inconsistent and not dependable. 2.79 GAA and .908 save % is nothing to get excited about. less than 2 GAA and 92% is something to get excited about. i hope McCollum finishes strong and pushes for the starter job next year. my faith in howard is expended. i'd feel better having joey mac finish the better part of the season and playoffs at this point.
Its apparent you haven't paid attention to the goaltenders in the farm team this year. McCollum has been crap. Pearce has been much better, but I don't think he is even close to Howard.
As for your faith in Howard, I can't fix that. You can point to numbers and scoff. I can point to the lazy defense and team play, as apparent to last night, and say they need to be motivated. In the end, who is right? Maybe a bit of both? Not that you will blame the lazy ass players in front of him. As I also said before, the Wings could have the best goalie in the league and people would still *****. There is no human being good enough to play for the Wings.
I have faith in him because I am a Wings fan. I back my team 100%, no exceptions. The management of the Wings has delivered 4 cups in the last 14 years. That alone should be enough to give you faith. If not, well, the Vancouver Canucks could use you as a bandwagon fan.
As for Howard, it's not irrational. The guy is more inconsistent than Osgood ever was. It's true that Detroit fans are notoriously hard on their goalies, but Howard has yet to do anything to really prove himself to us. Osgood may occasionally be a whipping boy, but he's earned his stripes and most fans love the guy for it. Howard has done a few things so far (carried the depleted team in 09-10, getting chippy with some opposing players, that save without his helmet) but until he wins when it matters most his inconsistency will necessarily be the focus.
Sorry, but I disagree. He has yet to be tested. He had two playoff rounds and this year he will get another opportunity. I figure that the Wings will give him his due in the next couple years. If he can't cut it, they will find someone else. You really can't judge Howard's career because of how young he is. Even great goalies have had horrible seasons when they were young. Hell, Tim Thomas had a crap season last season, and then he rebounded and has had his best season to date.
You and other fans want to talk about consistency? He is tied with the most wins in the league. I would rather his playoff performances be the judge of his consistency though. Last season was a learning experience. This season the stakes are higher, especially with a squad that will place 2nd or 3rd in the NHL. "What matters most" is the playoffs.
Until then, I do think its irrational to expect perfection from any human being in net. If he starts 60 games and wins 66% of them, thats a 40 win season which is great for any goalie.
As I already touched on, Howard was HORRIBLE last night, but his overall body of work has been very good and people blame him WAY too much...
As for CuJo, the people you know are the minority then... all you had to do was listen to sports talk radio at the time and the sheer idiocy spewing from people's mouths in regards to the goaltending situation was enough to drive a logical person insane... he was a MAJOR scapegoat those years and many were basically calling for his head, and that was the main reason that the whole Hasek 2.0 project happened when his groin was still ailing and we already had a goalie... that situation was one of the few black marks on an otherwise pristine Red Wings front office over the last 20 years...
I agree. Cujo was unceremoniously run out of town for the playoff losses. This from a guy who really was a class act in the organization. Yes, he got hurt. He went down for a conditioning stint and then came back and really played out of his mind. The contract was a bigger stigma than Cujo ever could bear. Many people hated him for that contract alone.
As I have said before, if you want to goaltend in Detroit, you had better be ready to get a lot of blame for the losses and little to no credit for the wins. Any rebound you give up is going to be analyzed and blamed upon you. God forbid you let in a weak goal. Deflections, defensive breakdowns, and the team in front of you that doesn't hustle is no excuse. Look at Manny Legace for instance. The guy got no goal support in the playoffs when they were beat by a hungry Edmonton squad. He was chased out of town after losing in the playoffs, and it wasn't all his fault. Not as bad as the Cujo situation, but still bad.
The Red Wing fan mentality is really out of whack here, and needs to be changed. I am a firm believer that fans who actually play the game are much more educated on the game of hockey than those armchair fans who sit on their asses and think they are experts because they watch one team 82-100 games in a season plus playoffs. From my standpoint, I became a much more realistic and understanding fan after I started playing back in 1998.
Too true. Happens to every goal that comes through here though. It's not going to change anytime soon. Even if (big if) Jimmy makes every save all the time and lets the occasional goal in, people on these boards, in the arena, or anywhere else will bash him for it. What have you done for me lately? is mantra around here. Won't ever change and I can't say I blame anyone for that mentality.
Which is why Osgood continues to be a whipping boy here after he helped deliver 3 cups to Detroit.