Wait, you mean our rookie, third string, goalie had a bad game against the best offensive team in the league? What a bum!
In all seriousness, I'm glad to hear it. Obviously, looking at the score it seemed like one of those games where we just looked retarded for 60 minutes. If the team played well, and Peter was just off, oh well. Obviously I'd like to see them win, but over the course of an 82 games season you're going to lose some games. If that's the case, I'd rather they lose because one guy has a bad game than because 20 guys did.
Mind-blowing to me how people could get worked up about this team based on a game when your AHL goalie has a meltdown night and plays terrible. Also mind-blowing how much flack Mrazek is getting for it. This is what I hate about call ups, especially extended ones. There's the upside of them getting some real experience, but it has a tendency of coloring people's perceptions of a player unfairly. I still expect Mrazek to be with the Wings full time next season and to come out of camp in a backup role looking great.
And I'm most certainly not scared of literally any team in this league because of a silly game like this.
You are absolutely correct. That was actually the reason the Wings had to play out the string with Sammy's contract. He was still considered injured during the buyout window.
It's sounding more & more though that Franzen's career could very well be cut short by concussion symptoms. If that's the case, the Wings will get cap relief with the sole exception that they'll need to be at or below the cap with Franzen's salary included for one day at the start of each season which is what Philly & Boston have to do with the Pronger & Savard situations. Well, that is until the trolls in NHL HQ decide to change that rule too eventually.
Has anything from actual sources suggested his career could be cut short or is it just speculation from fans? I haven't followed this closely, but I also haven't heard anything remotely official about this, and I would've thought that'd be a little bit bigger news around here if true.
Take it easy. We're just talking about the other playoff teams in the division. But who cares about beating them, right?
We've gotten points in a lot of those games, so I wouldn't say we're as mismatched as you are trying to suggest. We played a terrible game against Boston the end of December, but other than that, it's been tight. A win and another shootout loss. Islanders beat us once in a 2-1 game. We've been beat by Montreal once good and went to a shootout and lost another time. Tampa Bay tore us up tonight because Mrazek frizted out; the previous game was another shootout loss.
While I'd like to win shootouts, I don't judge the team on their overall hockey game when they lose them. They were tight matches against good teams and we lost in a talent show. Silliness.
We were in this game tonight until Mrazek, a goalie that's supposed to be solidifying his pro-game in the AHL before coming up next year to play in the backup role, lost his ability to stop a shot. It's no big thing to sweat. Mrazek will bounce back and grow from this and the Wings will be fine. I'd like to see some more wins against better teams as the year goes on, but based on what we've seen this team do, I believe without a doubt that we'll rack up some important wins down the stretch.
I dunno. That 5th goal. A non scoring Dman floats one fromt he blueline. No screen. It almost looked like he completely wiffed on catching it. You know its a bad night when your comparing what was the worse goal against.
I think he's clearly letting his head get in the way. Sometimes goals sneak through on even NHL starters, but the guy has had a few rough starts in a row, gets scored on early tonight, and then gives up another weaker goal, and then he really crumbled. It's senseless trying to defend him on the goals; he should be making those saves. But what's more important to me is that we know he's definitely capable of making those saves.
This is a tough test for a 22 year old AHL goalie to be going through, and I think tonight we really saw him hit a low point where everything has clearly gotten to his head and affected his ability to perform. I think last few games, while certainly not great, were significantly better efforts than what we saw from him tonight. Tonight, he fell apart.
Hopefully this is the low point and he starts bouncing back. The coaches and team will be on it, so I'm hoping and expecting him to start picking it up again after tonight.
Oh no, one bad game against another top team and it's time to lose our s*** again!
Not saying the team has been great, but Mrazek has been utterly lousy tonight. That's why this game is so lopsided. What can you do?
We've seen this team play great and find ways to win consistently enough this season to justify the belief that they're a top team this year. They've even found ways to win games where their AHL goalie, who's playing because their 1 and 2 goalies are injured, started skidding out on the learning curve.
So we're really going to s*** on them tonight?
Last few years, I'd get it. It was true. This year, it's not. I know it's been awhile since we've been a legitimate top team, but it's time to learn to roll with a few punches again. Games like this happen to the best of teams once in awhile, even with their starting goalie.
I dont think he really has stepped up. If anything hes taken a step back from how he was playing last season. The offense has been the main reason for the run the last 3 weeks.
He never played consistently last season so it's really tough to compare the two. Guys come up and have a solid game running on adrenaline, but it's almost always a flash in the pan. You can't get too up or down on a guy based on what he does on a random call up.
And I'm not going to suggest that Mrazek has been good the last four games because he hasn't, but I'm not going to hold it against him. He shouldn't be here right now. He should be in the AHL. But as said, I think it's good that he's getting this experience because it's going to push him all the harder.
Next year he's likely going to come in and play backup, and he'll get a lot of opportunities to prove himself. If he keeps growing and keeps pushing and cleans up some of the problem areas in his game, he'll do well in that role. He's got the skill set and potential to go toe and toe with Howard in the next couple years. A rough stretch on this extended call up is not going to change my mind about that.
It's annoying as hell to me that Mrazek is going through this, but as I've said before, long-run, this is a good thing. Like many others, I believe Mrazek has a ton of potential to be a great NHL goalie, but as I've said time and time again about young prospects, your ability to be successful in this league will boil down to your ability to continue growing and continue pushing yourself to work harder and harder, even if you're already playing in the NHL.
Mrazek is young and clearly still has some issues to sort out in his game, but the sooner he sees how hard he's going to have to work and how good he is going to have to be on a consistent basis to be an NHL regular, the better. Mrazek is a confident guy who loves to play, so I believe he'll do what it takes to elevate his game.
This is the kind of opportunity and test that's likely to inspire him to work harder than he would've otherwise this offseason to come into training camp an NHL-level goalie. Rough as it is to watch, I think this is a blessing in disguise for Mrazek.
And thankfully, we've found ways to win despite his struggles. This game's not over yet...
Watching the game last night, it dawned on me Franzen has been gone for 5 or 6 games. It doesn't look like the Wings miss him too much.
Seriously. It doesn't even register that he's missing. I'm not trying to be an over the top ass in saying that. I mean that in the most general way possible. It doesn't even occur to me that he's missing watching the games lately.
I wish I could see these standings in a meme form with the caption having one of the talking head analysts
saying the Red Wings will barely make the playoffs. I know I heard it somewhere.
I think when the guys look and see themselves at the top they're going to be extra motivated to stay there.
8 and 2 in our last 10? What a time to be alive!!!
Barely make the playoffs? We weren't expected to make the playoffs by most if my memory serves me correctly.
But to be fair, we are operating in best case scenario mode right now when it comes to how our young guys are playing. It easily could've gone the other way, and even in the coming years, some of the guys that look like studs now could drop off fast. It's really tough to tell with young players adjusting to the NHL.
But thus far, it's been golden, and they're giving us reason to believe they're the real deal and won't drop off, so I'm prettyf****** excited about this team.
Have you watched the last 6 games? I'm loving the wins. Unfortunately they are not indicitive of our play lately. Can't keep getting 4 goals against and expect to win
I don't disagree, but good teams find ways to win even when they aren't firing on all cylinders. That's what I like most about this team this year. Last year we found ways to lose games like the last few all the time. It was terrible and that's why we barely made the playoffs. The team this year has not always looked stellar, but again, they're still finding ways to win games, and that's the mark of a good team.
I really don't understand the flak Howard gets, or the short, SHORT, leash he's been given.
For some reason, he's been labeled an barely average- average goalie. It almost seems like the fans, or just hockey fans in general, are hypocritical about the guy.
Barely average-average= a .900-.910. .915 on a good year? Maybe 60% at the shootout?
If that's what we expect from Howard, then last season he shouldn't have really been crucified. He played within his talent level, accord to most. You see, to me, Barely average- average goalies do not post .920+ the majority of their career (so far). To me, until his average season last season, an average goalie doesn't post around 75% in the shootout, consistently. To me, that's high end of above average goal tending. Or has he just been overachieving his whole career? And don't tell be it's because of the stout defense we put out on that ice. /sarcasm
Oh, but what about this year's shootout numbers! Statistical anomalies happen. You just don't go from one of the better shootout goalies, to the worst, without a reason. I'm sure it will be fixed.
Mrazek has talent. But he's far from ready. He has had the benefit of an offensive burst from the Wings right now. Sure it's a team game. But had it been Howard it net letting in those very same goals? The man would be on GOAT status, if he isn't there already.
Mrazek can't catch a puck. He can't swallow a puck. Sure Jimmy's rebound control was bad, but not this bad. It was mostly Jimmy's kick saves (as still kind of there) that were the problem. Never a glove issue, or swallowing the puck...to this degree.
I feel like Mrazek supporters are on a high right now because "he's winning". But once there's a stretch where he needs to squeeze points from 5-6 1 goal games in a row. I know Jimmy can do it. Mrazek? I'm not so sure. And as excited as some people are, and as I am, I'm not ready to hand over the reigns to the kid until he's 100% better than Jimmy. And Jimmy is a realllly good goal tender. It won't be an easy take over, no matter how we try to conjure up a scenario.
I don't think as many people are s***ting on Jimmy as you suggest. I think Mrazek has the potential to take over the starting job in the next couple years, but it doesn't mean I think Jimmy as anything short of a very good and at times great goalie, and most certainly well above average at just about all times.
I do think he has flaws working against him, like any player does, though one of his is playoff performance. Thus far, he's yet to play as well in the playoffs as we've seen him play in the regular season, and while not all bad, there have been some rough outings for him in the big show. If he loses the job to Mrazek, my guess is that's going to be why. But he could also solidify his status by having playoff success this year or next. He and the team are capable of it at this point, and thankfully, there are no shootouts in the playoffs. Don't think for a second that I won't be rooting for him.
But also in Mrazek's defense, we've seen a lot more of him at a earlier point in time in his development than we saw of Jimmy. Jimmy was not exactly in the best of shape earlier on, and didn't make the team as a backup until they were out of options for him. And even at that point, three years older than where Mrazek is at now, he had quite a few glaring flaws in his game he still had to work out. And he's never fully worked out his mediocre and at times piss-poor puck handling. And to be fair, Howard, even much further into his career than Mrazek, had a season where 3rd period meltdowns became a semi-regular occurrence just last year. Mrazek clearly has a lot of room for growth and improvement, but there's a lot of potential there and he seems to have the right attitude about it all.
Again, I do think at some point in the near future there will be a battle for that number one spot between Mrazek and Howard, but it's a very good problem to have, as Howard is at the very least a very good goalie, so if Mrazek ends up being better, then we are in a great spot indeed.
You crazy nuts bro ... you, hockeymom1960, gcom007 ... where are the other 47?
Yeah, it's crazy nuts to think Mrazek has the potential to challenge Howard for the starting spot in 1-2 years. That's all I'm saying, and I don't think many here would actually disagree with that timeline too much. You might want to try actually reading what I'm saying.
I think someone forgot to tell DeKeyser that no one wants to sign here.
I can't even believe this discussion is even taking place. What in the Red Wings/Holland's history would give any indication whatsoever that they would trade anyone away to bring up a 22 year old goaltender? Howard spent 4 seasons in the minors and I don't think he became a regular until he was like 25 or 26. Like it or not, the "over ripen" philosophy has been very successful for the most part and I don't see it changing anytime soon, most especially with this situation.
They wanted Howard up earlier, but he kept blowing his chances. He wasn't in good shape at least once if not several times heading into camp, and even when he made the team, it was because they were out of options for him and it was his last chance. His later age of entry into the NHL had nothing to do with wanting him to "over-ripen" and everything to do with the fact that he failed to make the cut earlier.
Bear in mind though that I'm not saying we should promote Mrazek to starter and trade Howard now. As I've said whenever this has come up, this is something that will need to be sorted out in 1-2 years. Mrazek will no doubt make the team next year and I don't doubt that Babcock will give him every opportunity to win the starting job from Howard. If he can do it, well, then we have a good problem, because Howard at the very least is a very good goalie, one of the better ones in the game when he's on. It'll be no small feat, but Mrazek is likely capable of it, and if he does so, something will have to be sorted out. Again, it'll be a good problem to have ultimately.
I couldn't agree more Playmaker. +10
Also, in regards to the Mrazek vs Howard debate... Before last night I wanted to sign Mrazek to a mega deal and trade Howard, but after last nights performance, I think we should probably trade or maybe even waive Mrazek. We probably wouldn't get much in return after last nights performance anyway. I mean 3 goals allowed on 7 shots? That's aaaawful. He will never ever get it done at the NHL level, unless of course he has a bounce back game next game. Then, we should probably trade Howard. I mean, no team wants to have two capable goaltenders at one time, that would be what they call a "goalie controversy", bad news... I'm not sure, am I doing this right?... f***in LGW...
I dreaded coming on here last night due to this. One roughf****** game and people lose their s***. It's absurd. But as noted above, Playmaker's statements are a bit off-base and don't account for certain realities of the Howard situation specifically.
Correct. I was using NHL Numbers, and they cut off at the at 16-17 season. My mistake.
Even with the extra year, I really don't see Howard being moved out, at least not until that very last season. Perhaps if they had a competent back-up in the system, or if there are issues with the cap coming back down. As it stands, I think they'd feel much safer letting Howard kind of mentor Mrazek into the role. I agree with Howard having trade value, but I can't see Holland moving him unless he gets a fantastic offer for him. I don't think Mrazek takes over as starter next year, which means he's getting back-up money on his next contract. Even if he's getting somewhere around 2 million per, you're paying around 7-7.5 million on goaltending, which is what a good chunk of teams are paying for the position.
IMO, It really only becomes an issue if Petr signs on for 2 years, then gets paid well going into the 17-18 season.
That's also operating under the assumption that Howard will be okay taking a reduced role, which he might not be, and the Wings might feel more open to moving him just for the fact that he should be a starter somewhere.
But you bring up another interesting wrinkle about how and contracts will get structured. I wonder who Mrazek's agent is and if he's been known to play hardball in the past with other guys. You've got to imagine that he won't make it easy on the Wings. Mrazek and especially his agent, whoever that may be, are not going to be oblivious to his value. Two years at backup prices seems very reasonable on the next deal, but they'll want to clean up after that if he becomes the goalie a lot of people believe he will be.
And again, the whole reason I can't see them moving Howard in his last year or two even is the age thing, unless he attains some serious playoff credentials by then. I just don't know if any teams are going to want to trade for a 34-35 year old goalie with a $5.3 million cap hit who hasn't even made it to the 3rd round of the playoffs. That's why I think he either has a lot of playoff success here in this year or next, or he gets moved. It gets a lot harder to trade him the longer it goes on, and even if his deal doesn't spell cap doom immediately, there could be enough factors at play to make a trade make sense sometime after next season that I think it's likely to happen.