I have no problem with us signing Daniel Alfredsson.
I don't think we would've made the playoffs without him last year. I think he ran out of gas for awhile after the Olympics, but Kronwall wasn't firing on all cylinders either and he's a good deal younger. It was a long run for the Swedes. If the rest of the team can stay healthier and we can give him some calculated rest now and again this year, and with no Olympics to further muddle things up, I think Alfie stands to have a more impressive year this year, and I say that as someone who thought highly of his contribution last season. He was still an effective player most of the time, he put up points, and provided strong leadership when our big leaders went down.
While it would've been a different story had Dats and Z not been injured, the fact of the matter remains that even at his older age, even given his own injury issues that hampered him throughout the season, even given that he missed 14 games, and even given that he had an extended cold-streak when he was running on empty after the Olympics, he still ended up being our points leader last year while going on to become a locker room leader in the second half that all those kids that exploded pointed to again and again for stepping up when Dats and Z went down.
If we're going to be signing older players, Alfie is the kind we should be signing. When people talk about wanting Ken Holland to stop signing older scrubs, I generally am very much in agreement. But the thing is, Alfredsson never has been and never will be an old scrub. Signing him should never be compared to signing someone like Cleary. It's genuinely irritating to me that anyone would even try to suggest that we're dealing with the same type of player and circumstance here when by any objective measure there's clearly a night and day difference. Alfie isn't as effective as he was ten years ago, most obviously, but he is still an effective player who contributes on the scoresheet and leads, all while providing the kind of veteran presence that you absolutely do want to have around on a team that's getting younger.
Just because Holland made a mistake in signing Dan Cleary again doesn't mean he should make another mistake and not sign Alfie if Alfie decides that he can play.
Again, I have no problem with Alfie coming back, and while I'm certainly not holding my breath, I hope that somehow this ragtag team can pull off a miracle for him. He's a class act and nothing would make me happier next season than seeing him win his first Cup so he can go out on top. Never lose hope, right?
I just watched the 96 Wings Fedorov 5 goal game on NHL network the other day. The Russian five had that amazing highlight real bing bang cycle play you see on all the highlights of them. I pretty much love any game from that era. Does anybody know where I can buy DVDs of the 96-98 team? Maybe like the playoff runs or something. I know I can find them online but I want them to keep
That game was incredible.
Try as I might to come up with something more original, it has to be June 7th, 1997 for me. Nothing has come close to matching the feeling and emotions of that game and the celebration after.
But we got there largely because of games like March 26th, 1997, too, so...that whole season was just special. From the game in which Shanahan debuted, after rushing to Detroit after the trade was completed earlier in the afternoon, through to June 7th, it was just a magical season.
Oh but Holland DOES give out overpriced UFA contracts....see Quincey and Cleary...BOTH overpriced. Waste of money, whether he has $1M in cap space or $100M...they are BOTH grossly overpaid.
It kills me when posters cite Holland not signing all these UFAs to big deals as a good thing, and that's why we want him, when in fact, he is out there pitching the same huge deals to the UFAs as everyone else, he just keeps getting rejected. How do they conveniently ignore that? And it's not just this year! The stupidity of some of the statements in light of the facts is mind-blowing to me. Holland offers a guy the same deal or a bigger deal, guy signs with other team, and somehow we're lucky to have a GM that doesn't sign UFAs to huge deals? Seriously? I just don't even know where to start when people are so loyal that they can't begin to be even remotely objective about the realities of the situation.
I'll make it short: The good (drafting, prospects) far outweighs the bad (arguably the missed FAs, signing of washed up Vets).
And, maybe most important for me, the Organisation is a classy one and Holland is a huge reason for that. I don't want to win a cup if we deal with things like Vancouver or Montreal or with having players who behave like assholes on the ice like Lucic.
Since getting a new GM automatically means we become a scummy, bottom-feeding team full of assholes...
Getting upset over the NTC is just looking for an excuse to complain. We all agree it is not a good signing. We get it. The NTC is a minor detail that Cleary asked for to prevent ending up somewhere like Buffalo. It isn't a big deal. He wouldn't get traded regardless.
I do think calling for Holland to be fired over this is overreacting. You'd think he traded Hank and Dats for a 5th round pick with what's being said about him. If Cleary has a bounce back year, then great. If not, no big deal. His career as a Wing would come to an end. No harm done. But some are acting as if Holland blatantly passed on guys like Vanek or Richards just so he can sign Cleary instead. Doesn't work that way, folks.
This is just the Cleary (couldn't resist) on top of a 5-year in the making s*** Sunday.
A little long, but pretty much sums up how we all feel right now.
I actually think he went a little easy on him.
I mean, seriously, outside of drafting, over the last five years, Ken Holland's management system or style or whatever it may be is a complete mess and an utter failure. He's completely failed to adapt to the cap era since the cap actually started weighing down on the team. He got lucky early on with superstars playing for RFA money and the salary rollback, but since 2009 when he's had to actually deal with legitimate cap issues, he's done nothing but flounder. At this point, when you look at the last five off-seasons, you've got a steady stream of disasters.
Everyone in the media seems hesitant to want to be too hard on the guy based on his reputation, but it's getting too hard to ignore that he seems completely lost as a GM of this team in the cap era. Even if you give him more credit than he could possibly deserve for drafting well, there's far too many other failures and terrible moves to continue to give him the benefit of the doubt. That he ends up looking more lost and ineffective as more major people from his management team leave is also quite telling. I'm not saying that the other management team members were the true geniuses necessarily, but clearly Holland has been less effective since losing them as resources; first with Scotty, then with Yzerman, and then Nill.
However much credit you want to give to anyone though for the past, the fact remains that we have five straight years of Holland failing to help this team slow the decline, let alone actually improve, in any way other than drafting. But he's made so many bad moves outside of drafting that it's begun to nullify the benefits afforded to a team that drafts well, because he fails to build teams that have room for young guys to come up when they're ready.
It's just all so absurd at this point, and it's all been said too many times.
The bottom line is that if there was any doubt beforehand, I think today it's become abundantly clear, enough is enough. It's time for a new GM.
I liked Modano, it's a shame it didn't work out/freak injury. You take a chance on a future hall of famer. Tootoo was an interesting idea, but the rest were garbage from the beginning.
The whole Modano situation could've played out completely differently if not for a freak injury. It's silly that people knock it given what happened. That one ought to be disqualified if you ask me.
all of them minus Colaiacovo
What kills me is that once the guy was healthy, he wasn't so bad for us. I was actually surprised we bought him out given our lack of depth on defense and that once healthy, he played relatively well, considering he was cheap and coming off of injury. At the very least, it didn't seem like he was the first salary problem that needed addressing, that's for damn sure.
Once again, I am NOT defending this signing. I dislike it as much as anybody. But it happened. I'm not going to lose my mind over it because it isn't going to make it go away. All there is left to hope for is that he gets very well acquainted with the pressbox.
Well, that's wonderful for you.
I agree, that generally there's a time and a place for such restraint and perspective.
And then there's the day that Ken Holland signed Dan Cleary again.
If ever there was a day to blow off some steam, it's today...
In the end just look at last season. We often had guys like Sammy and Bert sitting in the press box while they were passed over and kids got the call up. I see this season being no different. Cleary's competition is with being scratched, not with the kids who can play in GR. If/when Cleary stinks it up, and a roster spot needs to be filled for a game, I would bet money that Jurco would get the call up over him.
Once again, I don't like the signing. But every team needs bench warmers.
There are cheaper and/or better bench warmers. And we have cap space. We talk about not wanting to overpay anyone, but we piss money away on overpriced s*** that rots in the press box. It's an utter and complete joke at this point. I don't know how he still has his job right now, I really don't. It literally is starting to feel like he's trying to get himself fired.
Do you really believe that Holland will release or demote Cleary over a youngster that can be sent down even if the youngster completely outplays Cleary?? What message does it send to the young players in the organization? They preach to them to work hard and youll earn your spot but all they end up seeing is those spots theyve earned given to players that should have been put out to pasture years ago.
This is why I cut Tatar a lot of slack when those comments were coming out about his frustration being stuck in GR. It's one thing to not rush guys, but we're not in an era where it makes sense to let everyone get "overripe" as Holland puts it. We need their skill and their speed and their price points in the NHL far more than we need to be signing oldsters that can't contribute.
Really. Because last time I checked, the “cap era” began in 2006 right?
2006 - President’s trophy
2007 - WCF
2008 - Stanley Cup champions
2009 - SCF
Anyway, you can credit Lidstrom, Bowman, Nill, Captain America, Marion Illitch’s hairdresser, whoever the f***. Doesn’t matter. The results above speak for themselves and they all most definitely happened in the cap era.
I know it seems like I’m defending Holland but really I’m not. I’d never dream of it today. I’m just saying there has to be a line of sensible thought drawn through all of this mess, and maybe that starts by toning down the hyperbole.
But you have to admit, those years were unique for the Wings, and the team that had the most success was primarily a team built before the cap. When they got back to playing, they had the benefit of a salary rollback and they were able to buyout some deals that weren't close to reasonable with a cap and keep the core of the team together. Not only that, you had the unexpected rise of Franzen, who had his most success when he was making very little money. Zetterberg wasn't making star money until 2009 I believe despite being a bonafide superstar; wasn't his deal before his current contract for less than $3 million? I want to say $2.2 or $2.8. Either one was well below the value he brought to the team at the time.
But I'm not really trying to take anything away from him so much as not given him too much credit for actually building a cap team, because I don't think he had to start building a legitimate cap team until 2009. You have to admit, he was lucky to have Franzen breakout while making next to no money, and getting away with paying Z less than $3 million throughout that period was of tremendous benefit. With that kind of luck and those RFA deals, there are likely a lot of GMs who could've done less than Holland had to and still had a tremendous amount of success.
I mean, seriously, despite the salary cap and despite having a ton of talent up front, those lingering RFA deals allowed him to sign Hossa to a big 1 year deal in the summer of 2008. That's no small or ordinary thing, especially with no cap hit trickery from a longer deal to lessen the blow. For the team to be as loaded with talent as they were in the cap era and still be able to pull that off seems utterly laughable now, but again, we were lucky to have those lingering RFA deals and Franzen became a beast seemingly out of nowhere for a couple years.
When tougher decisions started having to be made in 2009, that is when the reality of the salary cap started weighing down on how this team would be built, and it's been all downhill since. Every summer since the summer of 2009, he's been caught flat footed and unprepared. Even he has flat out admitted that at times, earlier on though more than in recent years.
So sure, he had great success early on in the cap era, but how much that success had to do with him having to build a team in the cap era and how much it had to do with pure luck, rollbacks and outlandishly amazing value on some RFA deals is debatable. Again, I'm not trying to take anything away from his success at that time, but I also don't think that era represents Holland's ability to build a true cap era team, and I don't think it serves as justification to continue to give him more chances after five years of him failing to address needs and countless flat out bad signings.