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gcom007

Member Since 18 Dec 2003
Offline Last Active Dec 18 2014 07:18 PM
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#2315387 Has the Detroit diamond lost it's shine?

Posted by gcom007 on 04 July 2012 - 10:51 PM

To everyone trashing Holland for that one, some questions.

1. What would you have done differently?
Don't give me the excuses like "he should have" its about what you would have done in order to improve this Hockeyclub.

2. How would you have the handled the Suter & Parise situation?
Keep in mind before you answer, they both wanted to play together and in front of their families. They passesd up on an Original Six franchise and also on the chance of playing alongside Malkin, Crosby and Suter being paired with Letang. So this has nothing to do with Detroit's Diamond losing it's shine.

3. Would you be confident with overpaying for at best class B players in order to squeeze into the playoffs and getting our asses handed to us by Vancouver, LA or Nashville?
or maybe just maybe we should pack it in for this season, see what we have in our young-guns, load capspace and offer the world to Getzlaf and Weber next year?

4. What would you have done to prepare for Lidströms retirement?
Save for Burns who went to the Sharks there was absolutely no one outthere, to improve this defense last year!

5. How much more money would you have offered?
Please notice, it wasn't about money for them.

Aside from the obvious questions some of you should ask themselves if you are truely RedWingsFans or fans of winning? Money and tradition aside, you can't win it every year and sometimes you have to go through a reload/tool episode and personally I can't wait seeing our young-guns learning from their mistakes and becoming better players.

Sorry I know I am the new guy here, but some people are acting like the wolrd is coming to an end just because two elite UFAs decided to go elsewhere.


1) I would have signed or traded for a top-tier defensemen the summer after we won our last Cup, despite likely having to give up some of our own young talent via trade or due to lack of cap space to do so. Our stock was never higher as a team so we were as much of a destination for top-tier talent as ever, and shaking things up after winning it all isn't necessarily a bad thing even in the short term, let alone the fact that allowing Lidstrom's replacement to have time to actually play with Lidstrom and LEARN would certainly be the wisest long term move I could make, knowing that sometime soon, Lidstrom would retire.

2) I wouldn't have had to worry about it! I would've signed Hossa after '09 who I'd rather have than Parise anyways for a far better cap hit and let Flip and Hudler go. And I would have already moved mountains to bring in Lidstrom's replacement so signing Suter wouldn't be a necessity. And chances are, these moves might have made Detroit a more attractive destination to both Parise and Suter anyways! Suter wouldn't have to come in and deal with all the pressure of filling Lidstrom's hole and Parise would have 3 legitimate superstars to complement him up front. But again, I don't think I would've put myself in a position to have to pay these guys this much money because I was desperate and had no better option.

3) At this point, you've got to get in bed with the decisions you've made and realize that you set yourself up to have to pay guys like Parise and Suter that much money. That is the NHL today, like it or not. Are they really overpaid if so many teams were willing to pay it? The $8 million difference between our offers is negligible, as I'm sure we'd have matched it if it came to that. We didn't lose these guys because of money. We didn't have the team to sell them on that would've made them look away from what is more like "home" them.

4) See answer 1. This should've happened 3-4 years ago. Really.

5) See 3. If it was the money, we would've matched, and that's simply not the issue. It isn't exactly Holland's fault that we didn't sign Parise and Suter, but it's absolutely his fault that we're in the desperate situation we're in. He's been coasting for far too long playing it cautious. I hate to feel vindicated over arguments about this matter I've been making for years now, because right now, this really does suck, but I've been pissed at Holland's management of this team for quite a while now. I've never felt less bad about my opinion of Holland being at least at this point an overrated, ineffective GM. Maybe he was as good as everyone said he was 10 years ago, but he hasn't been close to anything one might call "good" for 3-4 years now.


#2315363 Holland comments on Suter & Parise going to Wild

Posted by gcom007 on 04 July 2012 - 10:24 PM

What I have to say to Holland: I hope Yzerman likes your office, I have a feeling he will be occupying it soon.


I said it last week and I'll say it again, if Holland doesn't land Parise and/or Suter, it's going to be viewed as a failure no matter the reason, and it's going to be yet another off-season failure in a string of off-season failures. These were less his fault than '09's for example, but it's no matter, because he's had enough failures that were entirely his fault at this point.

Everyone wants to defend the guy because we've been so successful, but for the last 3-4 years, the guy has dropped the ball again and again and failed to set us up to be in a good position when Lidstrom retired. You can say that it's a different league now and we're not the draw to free agents we were 3-4 years ago, but that was all the more reason why he should've been making the deals then to set us up for this particularily dramatic off-season. But he's made too many emotional decisions in keeping guys (and gambling on guys...) we developed over pursuing better, proven talent at the expense of home-grown guys that had yet to live up to potential or do so consistently. He's played it too cautious and sat on the sidelines while our value as a destination team to players diminished.

You know, everyone's pissed about losing Suter now, but he should've made a deal to bring in a guy like Suter 3 years ago so he could sit next to Lidstrom and LEARN so we'd his replacement in place and more ready than ever to take over Lidstrom's role. The fact that it didn't happen was a supremely regrettable and in my mind inexcusable lack of foresight.

I don't claim to be an expert and I know Ken Holland knows a lot more about the game than I do, but too much of this was obvious even to me and it's been obvious to me since we were winning our last Cup, when things were good. I started to see it and started to worry then. And if a casual fan can start to pick up on this, then there's little doubt that Ken Holland was probably aware of it as well, but again, he failed to act. Why that was is still anyone's guess, but again, I think he simply was too close to the situation and made too many moves for emotional reasons that didn't serve the team well in the long run. That is why in my mind he has failed, and failed quite enough to get many if any more chances to manage this team heading into another off-season.


#2314589 We Need to Trade

Posted by gcom007 on 04 July 2012 - 11:56 AM

I don't think it matters at this point. I don't think we will have a very competitive team next year. Missing out on both Parise and Suter hurts too much. To get lesser quality options now, we'll have to weaken out team through trades first. I'm not trying to be dramatic, but I don't think you can underestimate just how much it hurts the Wings to lose out on Suter in particular.


#2313119 Parise Watch [update x2]: Red Wings OUT of Running

Posted by gcom007 on 02 July 2012 - 05:17 PM

This is pathetic, if I'm a free agent I would all ready have an idea where I would want to go play.


He probably does. That's why there aren't still 20 teams in the running. But have you considered that there are many places he might like to play for a variety of reasons, each with pros and cons? And that despite playing it through your head, you have no real idea what you're dealing with exactly until teams can actually call and send over their offers, and they couldn't do that before 30 hours ago, and they likely couldn't reasonably start sorting through it until about 24 hours ago.

So the guy and his agent have had about 30 hours to deal with concrete choices and actually have discussions with teams about those choices and your upset because he wants another 12-24 hours?

You're sitting on a message board. He's debating a decision that will have an enormous affect on the next 12 years of his life. Take a step back and think about that for a minute.

And for the record, his agent was quoted as saying a decision could still come tonight if made early enough about an hour ago, so again, try to have a little patience and empathy for the guy.


#2313106 Parise Watch [update x2]: Red Wings OUT of Running

Posted by gcom007 on 02 July 2012 - 05:04 PM

You know where you can stick your definition?

esteef


Womp womp.


"Mark Masters @markhmasters Parise on taking his time: 'It's such a long-term, important decision, you have to make sure you look at everything'"

"Pierre LeBrun @Real_ESPNLeBrun Agree RT @CraigCustance: Why are people mad at Parise? He's one of the most conscientious players . He's earned right to take his time."


#2313099 Parise Watch [update x2]: Red Wings OUT of Running

Posted by gcom007 on 02 July 2012 - 04:53 PM

Aww, I feel so bad for the little gazillionairre having to decide which city he wants to eat out of his hand for the next umpteen years. Boy he's sure got it rough. :thumbdown:

esteef


No one's saying he's got it rough. They're saying give the guy a few days to sort through his options now that his options are concrete. There's nothing wrong with that, at all.

Entitlement


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



An entitlement is a guarantee of access to benefits based on established rights or by legislation. A "right" is itself an entitlement associated with a moral or social principle, such that an "entitlement" is a provision made in accordance with legal framework of a society. Typically, entitlements are laws based on concepts of principle ("rights") which are themselves based in concepts of social equality or enfranchisement.
In a casual sense, the term "entitlement" refers to a notion or belief that one (or oneself) is deserving of some particular reward or benefit[1]—if given without deeper legal or principled cause, the term is often given with pejorative connotation (e.g. a "sense of entitlement").




Who has a bigger entitlement issue right now?

Guy A, who wants a few days to decide where to work for the next 10-12+ years and where he'll start his family or Guy B, who is posting on a message board pissed off at Guy A for not making an instant decision.


#2313089 Parise Watch [update x2]: Red Wings OUT of Running

Posted by gcom007 on 02 July 2012 - 04:38 PM

Oh no, I can't make up my mind. It's all so hard. On one hand I want to play with my BFF Sidney. Sure is a lot of upside to playing on that line. Marty Brodeur won't STOP calling me since he re-signed. I like New Jersey buuuuuuuut I"m from Minnesota and boy would it be dandy to go back home. Yes, back home would be nice.

ENOUGH! Jesus Zach, you saw this coming, you had to. You knew 20 teams would line up and you had to know enormous amounts would be discussed. Didn't you discuss this with your agent? This smells to me as of now no matter who gets him he's going to have a rough transition if he's still this conflicted.


You don't think things get more complicated when the reality of the decision starts to set in?

You don't think given New Jersey's complicated ownership situation that it's not adding another layer of complication for him? He likely does want to stay in NJ in many ways, which is totally fair and reasonable, but he likely has some very fair and reasonable concerns that are hard to sort through. He'd be taking less money to play on a team that likely will not be able to stay competitive in the coming years.

Then you have the other teams likely in the mix: Detroit, Minnesota, Pittsburgh, Chicago, Philadelphia...

Minnesota is going "home" for him, and from what the Wild brass has said, they're certainly willing to pay him more than enough money to make it worth his while to come "home." But the Wild aren't exactly a contender now, are they? Difficult decision.

Pittsburgh has the Crosby angle working for them. Sid and Parise have history and Sid's arguably the face of the game right now. Pittsburgh also has the Crosby angle working against them. Crosby's a hard check away from retirement and given his recent contract and the Pens overall financial situation, I'd bet that the Pens offer is for significantly less money than any other team in the mix.

Then you've got Chicago, Detroit and Philadelphia. All teams are capable of being contenders; two of them have won the Cup in the last five years and one has made it to the Semi's and Finals in the same span. All teams have likely thrown big money at him, and all are attractive destinations in many ways. All three have positives and negatives though as well.

Bottom line, I don't think this is an easy decision for him, and no matter how many times you play it in your head, until you have to face the reality and actually sort through the deals and talk to the teams (which you cannot do before July 1, it's all merely informed conjecture/speculation/fantasy/darts...give the guy time. I expect he'll make a decision by tomorrow at 6 PM, just two days and change past the start of free agency.

Two days in which he must decide what the next 10-12 or more years of his life will look like. I think we fans can manage for another 24 hours.

And hell, it's better news than him signing in Pittsburgh, isn't it? Count your blessings, there's still hope!

As if this is the only time he's had to consider this? It ain't like he's suddenly been put on the f***in spot to decide the rest of his future. Pick a team ****** and make it snappy!

esteef


See above.

And this is why, in the new CBA, the NHL really needs to institute a week or two for teams to negotiate with UFAs before they're allowed to sign.


Concur. I started adding this to my previous long post but cut it as it was already getting long. It's silly that we put so much added pressure on these guys to decide their futures just because Twitter exists and no one knows how to wait for anything anymore.

I'd like to see anyone here have to make a major life decision of comparable weight as swiftly as they'd like to see Parise make his decision.


#2313074 Parise Watch [update x2]: Red Wings OUT of Running

Posted by gcom007 on 02 July 2012 - 04:16 PM

So he made a big deal about speaking to reporters to tell us that he hasn't made a decision yet? Drama queen.


I don't blame the guy at all. In fact, I respect him for taking his time and heading home to speak to his family about the matter. It's a huge decision that none of us here truly understand. Don't get me wrong, I'm as anxious to know as anyone, but unless this drags on for over a week, I don't think the guy is doing anything wrong.

The only thing wrong here in my book is people giving these guys s*** for taking their time to decide where they want to call home for the rest of their careers in the NHL, as if that's such an insignificant decision.


#2312967 Jiri Hudler signs with Calgary, 4 years, $4m/year

Posted by gcom007 on 02 July 2012 - 07:59 PM

Tootoo and $3M for Sammy seem long forgotten thoughts on this joyous day!


#2312536 Wings may trade Johan Franzen for Rick Nash?

Posted by gcom007 on 02 July 2012 - 01:35 AM

Los Pollos Hermanos, where something delicious is always cooking!


#2312090 Ilitch, Chelios to fly to Suter, Holland to fly to Parise

Posted by gcom007 on 01 July 2012 - 05:33 PM

I also just read on Twitter/McKenzie that Parise has narrowed it down to the Wild, Flyers, Penguins, and Devils. Yeah, welll....... :angry2:


McKenzie never said that. Eklund and someone else misquoted him and McKenzie actually pointed it out.


#2312064 Red Wings Sign Jordin Tootoo to 3-yr deal, $1.9M/yr

Posted by gcom007 on 01 July 2012 - 05:30 PM

Wow. Interesting to see how people around here respond to him now that he's on our side.


#2309525 Ken Holland

Posted by gcom007 on 24 June 2012 - 04:28 PM

If Holland can't make some serious stuff happen this offseason to put a good team on the ice come October, it'll likely be the start of a multi-year skid where we struggle to make the playoffs and/or exit early. If that happens after he also blatantly sat on his hands the last few offseasons likely because he didn't want to make moves for emotional reasons as opposed to hockey reasons, his legacy will be hurt, no doubt about it.

Let's be honest, Scotty Bowman had more say than Holland in putting together the '97 and '98 Cups, in '02 we had the Yankees on ice in the non-cap era and Scotty Bowman influence, and then in 2008, we still had the Scotty Bowman influence and many of the original guys that Scotty Bowman helped bring along. And I can't say that it's not interesting that we haven't done as well in the offseason at signings or during the season with trades since Bowman left the organization. Maybe he had nothing much to do with it at that point, but it's none the less intriguing to me. He goes to Chicago the following season, they sign Hossa long-term (which Holland should've and could've done) and they win the Cup in 2010. (Yes, I know the Chicago argument is a stretch...)

But in any event, Holland is clearly setting up his own legacy at this point and has been since the shadow of Scotty Bowman left for good prior to the summer of 2009 I believe. That was a terrible offseason for us, much like every one since. We've not gotten past the 2nd round since then either. We lost in the 1st round last season! The signing of Franzen long-term (especially considering the Hossa angle) is looking more and more questionable. He has to basically replace the core of our defense, no longer building around one of the greatest players in history, but around Kronwall, who's a good to great player at times no doubt, but he's no Lidstrom. Howard had a great year last year up until injuries (and likely made the skaters look a lot better than they were for much of the season) and he never fully got back to form, but if he struggles this year (you never know with goalies...) coming off that funk hanging around all summer, he's suddenly got a starting goalie issue on his hands too.

Bottom line, he's got a lot to prove this summer, and if he fails to put a competitive team on the ice, we're likely going to be stuck in a rut for awhile. Dats and Z aren't getting any younger either and our young forwards aren't goal scorers. Given the huge likelihood for struggles on D, the mild uncertainty surrounding a younger goalie who still hasn't fully proven himself and an offense that struggled to score goals when it counts most last year, Holland is going to need a miracle to come out looking clean. And if the legend is worth it's while, maybe he'll pull one out of his pocket. But at this point, it's likely that anything less than signing Suter and Parise is going to be viewed as a failure, because you need both of them to come close to making up for losing a guy like Lidstrom at both ends, and Lids only played D! And even if he secures them both, he still needs another 2/3 defensemen and a solid backup goalie with more NHL experience so Jimmy can get some breaks and stay healthy and positive.

I'm hoping for the best, but I wouldn't be shocked if this was an ugly offseason. I also wouldn't be shocked if Ken Holland wasn't the Wings GM in 1-2 years. If he blows it and we don't make the playoffs, I could see him being done. If it happens again the year after, he better be fired.

It's time for Holland to prove he can do more than be the first guy to sign superstars to long-term creative contracts that circumvent the cap. We'll know a lot more by next Monday.


#2306353 Message to Ken Holland...

Posted by gcom007 on 10 June 2012 - 03:18 PM

Unless we could pull off something crazy to get Weber via trade, he's not worth it. But, I would love for that to happen. I don't give a s*** what happened to Z, and I doubt Z does either. Weber's a tough player who wants to win, and he got carried away. That's hardly his typical style. I said the same thing the night it happened, but I'd love to have Weber on our team pushing someone's head into the glass because he was that intense in the moment. It wasn't a great move and I'm not condoning it, but the level of intensity he had that lead to him making an uncharacteristic move like that was the difference between the Wings and the Preds. He's hungry. He's all in. I'd love to have him on our team at some point. If we can't work out a miracle trade this year, I say we go after him hard when he's a UFA.

Again, for the love, Chris Chelios ended up playing longer in Detroit than any other city! Chris Chelios! If you don't realize how big of a deal that is, you don't know your Wings history too well.

All I'm saying is that I think we can handle Weber just fine.


#2306349 Brad Stuart's rights traded to San Jose

Posted by gcom007 on 10 June 2012 - 03:12 PM

Stuart leaving is a bigger loss than most realize. He takes a lot of crap around here from some who fail to see just how good he was overall for four years here. Sure, he wasn't perfect, but there aren't many who come even close to great, let alone very good, and Stuart was without a doubt very, very, very good and a very important part of the Wings defensive puzzle over the last four years. Losing him and Nick in one fell swoop is rough.

If Holland can't make some big things happen, we're likely to have a rough season ahead of us. Thankfully, for once, I think Holland knows he has to be more pro-active and aggressive than he's had to be at any point in his career. If ever there was a sink or swim time for the Wings management, it's now.

Also, not expecting this pick to hang around for long. Whenever Holland trades for the rights of one of his big targets, this will be in the package no doubt.