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#2531612 Wings re-sign Cleary $1.5 mill + $1mill in game bonuses

Posted by gcom007 on 11 July 2014 - 03:10 PM

CapGeek ‏@capgeek 52s

Dan Cleary's bonus is $1 million for 10 games played. #RedWings


This s*** just gets more and more comical, Dano is going to make 2.5 million next year :lol:


If I don't read that this is a joke in a few posts, I'm literally going to get a headache.


This signing is nothing short of shameful. Dan Cleary should be absolutely ashamed to be making that kind of money while taking a spot away from a more deserving player.


And for the love, if he's really such a team-first guy, why in the ever living f*** did he sign this deal?

#2531444 Wings re-sign Cleary $1.5 mill + $1mill in game bonuses

Posted by gcom007 on 11 July 2014 - 01:00 AM


Getting upset over the NTC is just looking for an excuse to complain. We all agree it is not a good signing. We get it. The NTC is a minor detail that Cleary asked for to prevent ending up somewhere like Buffalo. It isn't a big deal. He wouldn't get traded regardless. 


I do think calling for Holland to be fired over this is overreacting. You'd think he traded Hank and Dats for a 5th round pick with what's being said about him. If Cleary has a bounce back year, then great. If not, no big deal. His career as a Wing would come to an end. No harm done. But some are acting as if Holland blatantly passed on guys like Vanek or Richards just so he can sign Cleary instead. Doesn't work that way, folks. 


This is just the Cleary (couldn't resist) on top of a 5-year in the making s*** Sunday.

#2531442 Wings re-sign Cleary $1.5 mill + $1mill in game bonuses

Posted by gcom007 on 11 July 2014 - 12:45 AM

Malik Report's open letter to Kenny: http://kuklaskorner...._medium=twitter


A little long, but pretty much sums up how we all feel right now. 


I actually think he went a little easy on him.


I mean, seriously, outside of drafting, over the last five years, Ken Holland's management system or style or whatever it may be is a complete mess and an utter failure. He's completely failed to adapt to the cap era since the cap actually started weighing down on the team. He got lucky early on with superstars playing for RFA money and the salary rollback, but since 2009 when he's had to actually deal with legitimate cap issues, he's done nothing but flounder. At this point, when you look at the last five off-seasons, you've got a steady stream of disasters.


Everyone in the media seems hesitant to want to be too hard on the guy based on his reputation, but it's getting too hard to ignore that he seems completely lost as a GM of this team in the cap era. Even if you give him more credit than he could possibly deserve for drafting well, there's far too many other failures and terrible moves to continue to give him the benefit of the doubt. That he ends up looking more lost and ineffective as more major people from his management team leave is also quite telling. I'm not saying that the other management team members were the true geniuses necessarily, but clearly Holland has been less effective since losing them as resources; first with Scotty, then with Yzerman, and then Nill.


However much credit you want to give to anyone though for the past, the fact remains that we have five straight years of Holland failing to help this team slow the decline, let alone actually improve, in any way other than drafting. But he's made so many bad moves outside of drafting that it's begun to nullify the benefits afforded to a team that drafts well, because he fails to build teams that have room for young guys to come up when they're ready.


It's just all so absurd at this point, and it's all been said too many times.


The bottom line is that if there was any doubt beforehand, I think today it's become abundantly clear, enough is enough. It's time for a new GM.

#2531321 Who has been Ken Holland's worst recent free agent signing?

Posted by gcom007 on 10 July 2014 - 07:24 PM

I liked Modano, it's a shame it didn't work out/freak injury. You take a chance on a future hall of famer. Tootoo was an interesting idea, but the rest were garbage from the beginning.


The whole Modano situation could've played out completely differently if not for a freak injury. It's silly that people knock it given what happened. That one ought to be disqualified if you ask me.

all of them minus Colaiacovo


What kills me is that once the guy was healthy, he wasn't so bad for us. I was actually surprised we bought him out given our lack of depth on defense and that once healthy, he played relatively well, considering he was cheap and coming off of injury. At the very least, it didn't seem like he was the first salary problem that needed addressing, that's for damn sure. 

#2531241 Wings re-sign Cleary $1.5 mill + $1mill in game bonuses

Posted by gcom007 on 10 July 2014 - 05:25 PM


Once again, I am NOT defending this signing. I dislike it as much as anybody. But it happened. I'm not going to lose my mind over it because it isn't going to make it go away. All there is left to hope for is that he gets very well acquainted with the pressbox. 


Well, that's wonderful for you.


I agree, that generally there's a time and a place for such restraint and perspective.


And then there's the day that Ken Holland signed Dan Cleary again.


If ever there was a day to blow off some steam, it's today...

#2531230 Wings re-sign Cleary $1.5 mill + $1mill in game bonuses

Posted by gcom007 on 10 July 2014 - 05:15 PM


In the end just look at last season. We often had guys like Sammy and Bert sitting in the press box while they were passed over and kids got the call up. I see this season being no different. Cleary's competition is with being scratched, not with the kids who can play in GR. If/when Cleary stinks it up, and a roster spot needs to be filled for a game, I would bet money that Jurco would get the call up over him. 


Once again, I don't like the signing. But every team needs bench warmers. 


There are cheaper and/or better bench warmers. And we have cap space. We talk about not wanting to overpay anyone, but we piss money away on overpriced s*** that rots in the press box. It's an utter and complete joke at this point. I don't know how he still has his job right now, I really don't. It literally is starting to feel like he's trying to get himself fired.

#2531213 Wings re-sign Cleary $1.5 mill + $1mill in game bonuses

Posted by gcom007 on 10 July 2014 - 05:02 PM

Do you really believe that Holland will release or demote Cleary over a youngster that can be sent down even if the youngster completely outplays Cleary?? What message does it send to the young players in the organization? They preach to them to work hard and youll earn your spot but all they end up seeing is those spots theyve earned given to players that should have been put out to pasture years ago.

This is why I cut Tatar a lot of slack when those comments were coming out about his frustration being stuck in GR. It's one thing to not rush guys, but we're not in an era where it makes sense to let everyone get "overripe" as Holland puts it. We need their skill and their speed and their price points in the NHL far more than we need to be signing oldsters that can't contribute.

#2530931 Kane & Toews Sign Identical 8-year, $10.5M AAV Extensions

Posted by gcom007 on 09 July 2014 - 09:17 PM

Can we trade a bag of pucks for Hossa now and rectify the terrible 2009 mistake?


Silly dreams...

#2529248 Quincey re-signed by DET. 2 yr s $4.25 mill AAV

Posted by gcom007 on 01 July 2014 - 11:43 PM

Really. Because last time I checked, the “cap era” began in 2006 right?
2006 - President’s trophy
2007 - WCF
2008 - Stanley Cup champions
2009 - SCF
Anyway, you can credit Lidstrom, Bowman, Nill, Captain America, Marion Illitch’s hairdresser, whoever the f***. Doesn’t matter. The results above speak for themselves and they all most definitely happened in the cap era.
I know it seems like I’m defending Holland but really I’m not. I’d never dream of it today. I’m just saying there has to be a line of sensible thought drawn through all of this mess, and maybe that starts by toning down the hyperbole.

But you have to admit, those years were unique for the Wings, and the team that had the most success was primarily a team built before the cap. When they got back to playing, they had the benefit of a salary rollback and they were able to buyout some deals that weren't close to reasonable with a cap and keep the core of the team together. Not only that, you had the unexpected rise of Franzen, who had his most success when he was making very little money. Zetterberg wasn't making star money until 2009 I believe despite being a bonafide superstar; wasn't his deal before his current contract for less than $3 million? I want to say $2.2 or $2.8. Either one was well below the value he brought to the team at the time.

But I'm not really trying to take anything away from him so much as not given him too much credit for actually building a cap team, because I don't think he had to start building a legitimate cap team until 2009. You have to admit, he was lucky to have Franzen breakout while making next to no money, and getting away with paying Z less than $3 million throughout that period was of tremendous benefit. With that kind of luck and those RFA deals, there are likely a lot of GMs who could've done less than Holland had to and still had a tremendous amount of success.

I mean, seriously, despite the salary cap and despite having a ton of talent up front, those lingering RFA deals allowed him to sign Hossa to a big 1 year deal in the summer of 2008. That's no small or ordinary thing, especially with no cap hit trickery from a longer deal to lessen the blow. For the team to be as loaded with talent as they were in the cap era and still be able to pull that off seems utterly laughable now, but again, we were lucky to have those lingering RFA deals and Franzen became a beast seemingly out of nowhere for a couple years.

When tougher decisions started having to be made in 2009, that is when the reality of the salary cap started weighing down on how this team would be built, and it's been all downhill since. Every summer since the summer of 2009, he's been caught flat footed and unprepared. Even he has flat out admitted that at times, earlier on though more than in recent years.

So sure, he had great success early on in the cap era, but how much that success had to do with him having to build a team in the cap era and how much it had to do with pure luck, rollbacks and outlandishly amazing value on some RFA deals is debatable. Again, I'm not trying to take anything away from his success at that time, but I also don't think that era represents Holland's ability to build a true cap era team, and I don't think it serves as justification to continue to give him more chances after five years of him failing to address needs and countless flat out bad signings.

#2529213 2014 Offseason League Signings and Trades

Posted by gcom007 on 01 July 2014 - 09:57 PM

Not sure where else to post this. Article sums up much of what has been said and speculated here.




Brutal, but pretty dead on across the board. I hate to admit it, but this is literally the first time in all my years of being a Red Wings fan that I feel like our team is a joke in the sight of the league. I know people have disliked us for years, and I know that many are just jealous while many others it was just competitiveness, and they still clearly had respect for us. But right now, I feel like this team has become the butt of a league-wide joke, and there's enough people with long memories that are no doubt relishing in our fate.


It's really sad.


It doesn't make me feel any less love for this team, and if anything, it affirms how much I do love this team, because I hate what's happening right now, and yet I still feel as passionately as I ever have about them as a fan. All I can hope for at this point is that someone in the Illitch family steps in to make the call to reassign or fire Holland and we get someone in the GM position that's willing to make some serious changes to shake things up. As I said in another post, it may turn out good though it might turn out horribly, but we've got to try something to turn it around. Worst case scenario, we end up getting in a position to draft the talent we'll need for a real rebuild. Either way, the days of the Holland descent into mediocrity need to end, as soon as they possibly can. He's failed for too long to do what everyone including himself says they need to do, and he's gone on to sign too many players to bad deals. Enough is enough.

#2529198 Quincey re-signed by DET. 2 yr s $4.25 mill AAV

Posted by gcom007 on 01 July 2014 - 09:46 PM


He gave up. I can see the "lack of drive" argument.  He could've waited all summer to find a deal somewhere else.  Maybe Europe?  Instead, he signed our worst defensemen who actually cost us at least 16 games last season, gave him a raise, and closed up a roster spot.  So basically...we're done on defense.  A kid needs to get a chance.  Maybe we add someone like Vrbata, but we're basically done up front, too.


So on day one of free agency...Holland has already given up.  Sure, we discarded some chaff, but not enough, and we didn't actually get any better.  We can only hope we're good enough to get a higher seed in the playoffs and maybe get a more favorable matchup until we run into a team like the Bruins who are built to beat our team.


I think a lot of people realize how terrible this Quincey signing is, but I don't think as many have a grasp of how much it means in the big picture. It's just utterly horrendous. Even if the guy wasn't as bad as he is, it's just such a terrible thing to go and do when our image already in the toilet. You do nothing and you can at least go on trying to minimize what happened today, but signing Quincey to that deal was a grand acknowledgement of the fact that this off-season is already an epic disaster for the Detroit Red Wings.

#2529162 Quincey re-signed by DET. 2 yr s $4.25 mill AAV

Posted by gcom007 on 01 July 2014 - 08:56 PM

Let's not overlook the possibility of a trade or two. This was a notoriously weak free agent class yesterday and it didn't improve much by today. The prevailing attitude from most was that the Amazing Kenzini shouldn't overpay for crap. To that end until the Quincey signing he'd done a good job neither paying someone too much nor signing empty calories. But the Quincey thing. I threw up in my mouth a little.


We as Red Wing nation need to decide if we're more upset we didn't sign a player or two who could put us over the top from this crop or are we more upset some free agents may have snubbed Detroit. If it's the former then maybe a big trade might help move the team forward ala Shanahan. If it's the latter then yeah, that sucks. Though I'm sure Niskanen and Dorpik were sold on the Crapitals the moment they got to the Verizon Center and looked up at all those championship banners in the rafters. Perhaps other forces are at work beyond the Red Wings reach ie the status of the city in receivership. They can however build the new stadium YESTERDAY. 


I'm hoping a trade can be worked before I start losing faith. 


There were more FA options this year than there's been in awhile. Even Holland had the gall to say that when he was feeling pretty confident yesterday. It wasn't rich with superstars, but there were a lot of options that could've helped our defense improve a lot.


And we just gave Quincey a big raise.


And if Holland planned on making a trade, if he had any real confidence in that, why is he overpaying for Quincey now? We're not going to trade other defensemen to acquire a defenseman because we don't have anyone we could trade that would improve the situation. It doesn't make much sense, and even if a trade happens, it doesn't minimize how utterly horrific of a deal this is.


Kyle Quincey is going to make over $4 million from the Red Wings for the next two years.


Say that out loud.


I will be a hardcore Red Wings fan until the day I die. I'm not abandoning the ship. But this is nothing short of af****** joke.


I lost faith in Holland awhile ago, but if he's not replaced soon, I'm going to be losing hope in the ownership, which I haven't wanted to do, especially in light of Mr. I's current state of health. It's a hard and unfortunate situation, but someone in that family needs to step up and do something now. He's had far too many chances to do something, anything, to prove he still has a handle on getting this team going in the right direction, and he continues to come up empty when it comes to addressing the needs we have, and he continues to sign terrible players to terrible deals after the fact.


It's not even worth arguing about at this point: the Red Wings absolutely need a new GM, as soon as possible.

#2529092 Quincey re-signed by DET. 2 yr s $4.25 mill AAV

Posted by gcom007 on 01 July 2014 - 08:02 PM

Is there anyone that still believes that Ken Holland should continue on as the GM of this team?

Do we have to really hit rock bottom for people to wake up?

Isn't this bad enough?

#2528047 2014 Offseason League Signings and Trades

Posted by gcom007 on 01 July 2014 - 12:58 PM

Who knows, but I don't think we're getting NIskanen. At this point, someone, Tampa or otherwise, is going to give him a huge offer, and it's next to impossible to imagine Holland matching let alone beating. And again, should we be upset about that specifically? I'm not so sure, because again, we're talking one big year on a great team. He hasn't proven that much, and that's a lot of money and years to throw at a guy who might not keep it up. The bigger concern is whether we let lower-priced targets go because we were chasing Niskanen. I don't like the way this day is shaping up right now at all. 

#2528029 2014 Offseason League Signings and Trades

Posted by gcom007 on 01 July 2014 - 12:50 PM

Honestly, it might not be the worst thing ever to get Quincey back. 



Big E-Dekeyser



Anything would be better than a Lashoff-Kindl/Quincey pairing. 


I hate how appealing that is starting to sound...pure depression.