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gcom007Member Since 18 Dec 2003
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Posted by gcom007 on 02 May 2010 - 07:30 PM
Posted by gcom007 on 27 April 2010 - 11:07 PM
As far as the next round, I'm really excited, but realistically, we're going to have to play a whole lot better and more consistently to win. San Jose's got a lot more firepower than Phoenix and Phoenix still lit us up in 4 of the 7 games. We got lucky when we pulled out game 2 despite a sloppy effort, as in the end, it was the difference most likely. But if we give San Jose four sloppy efforts, they'll win four games and the series. I'm not trying to be pessimistic, and I'm pumped, but this series was not comforting to me considering it's only going to get harder from here on out.
Then again, can the Sharks really win? That'd put them in the semi's...that can't really happen, can it? It's the Sharks, they always blow it...
Well, yeah, I'm pumped...can't wait for Thursday!!!
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Posted by gcom007 on 19 April 2010 - 12:31 AM
I don't mind your posts to be honest, it's just when people start talking like this.
And then saying Osgood could not play any worse. Which no one knows.
Concur. Very much so. I think Osgood's own "supporters" you could say are preparing for the worst as opposed to thinking with some perspective. I think they're thinking that we very well might see Osgood soon, which is I think far closer to a reality than some think. But in recognizing that rust is there, they're preparing their arguments of defense already. I'm not going to do that, because year after year, people think of all new ways to count the guy out, and somehow he always finds a way to come through. Sure, he may not (but I'm not going to go into defense mode now after all I've seen from him through the years), and Howard may get a shut-out in the next game, but If****** don't give a s*** either way so long as we start winning ASAP.
I don't really care how.
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Posted by gcom007 on 19 April 2010 - 12:15 AM
Wait, wait. Howard is supposed to stop a one on one by himself?
It's not like the defense is supposed to play well enough that there should be no one on zeros or anything, right?
It's not just Howard's fault when the defense doesn't give him any help. If he has rebound control, the defense should be ready to sweep pucks out of the slot.
And heaven forbid a simple, easy wrist shot that goes right into a goalies glove stay in a goalies glove less than 30 seconds in to a game as opposed to becoming a big rebound leading to another shot that leads to yet another rebound that leads to the goalie getting out of position, missing the guys coming in on the wraparound and allowing a goal, again, less than 30 seconds into a game...
"The team plays better in front of Howard."
I'm not throwing the kids career under the bus, but I've always been one to call a spade a spade. Howard's given this team anything but a rock to build on. The first was his best game, but not a good game, the second game was worse, this game was awful. So to go on with analogies, Howard's giving the team "sinking sand" you might say to build their playoff "house" on.
I mean, it was fair for everyone to say that Howard's strong play made the team play better in the regular season...
I just don't see how his weak post-season play wouldn't insinuate some sort of correlation with the teams weak post-season play. That is if we're not biased, utterly-subjective fans...
Again, I'm not a Howard hater. I like the kid a lot, and I don't blame him for this mess. Babcock f***ed up in my mind, and I've been saying it (and pretty much calling this...) since November. I'm not out to pick on anyone, especially Howard, who again, I REALLY LIKE AND SUPPORT.
But he's a damn rookie, and rookie's usually don't have what it takes to be great playoff goalies. It takes experience more often than not to be a great playoff goalie. The one thing rookies by definition don't have much of is EXPERIENCE.
What's sad is, many will probably call me a Howard-hater now, but if he blows this series, when the masses of sheep start hating him over the course of this off-season into next season and declaring that we're screwed in goal, I'll likely be one of the few people defending him...
((Then again, some crazy people with small animal brains (I'm sorry, I love you all, tough love...) still try to defend Legace too, so maybe (and almost hopefully in this case as I really think Jimmy's a good kid with a lot of potential) I'll be wrong on that...))
(Legace was and is a s***ty-ass goaltender. Jimmy Howard has a lot of potential to not be a s***ty-ass goaltender.)
Again, can't say it enough, I really like Jimmy Howard, and I feel bad for him. I hope people don't hold this series against him as time goes on but instead, keep it all in perspective and remember that he's a rookie. I want to see them go to Osgood if he s***s the bed again in game 4, but I want to remind everyone, despite Osgood winning us 2 Cups on his own and carrying a battered team to game 7 of the Finals last year, Osgood had to pay his dues on the bench too in his early years in the NHL. It's what made him the strong, big-game goalie he is today. I don't give a s*** about the last couple regular seasons. I can't explain it objectively, and I don't like thinking about it. All I know is that the guy knows how to turn it on in the playoffs, and he has for a long time. If Howard can't do it in game 4, let him learn firsthand from watching Osgood do what he does, so in time we might have another guy who may s*** the bed in the regular season, but kick ass in the playoffs when it really counts.
I'm sorry, but the opposite doesn't mean s***, and Jimmy Howard and Chris Osgood will tell you that. If you can't win in the playoffs, regular season records and stats don't mean s*** (Manny Legace will likely be toof****** insane to admit it).
I'll be rooting for Howard who will most-likely be starting game 4, but if he f***s up, I hope to be rooting for Osgood down the stretch.
But I'll still be rooting for Howard next season.
Posted by gcom007 on 18 April 2010 - 11:51 PM
I say Howard even if we go down. The only way I'd agree to pull Howard is if he gets absolutely annhilated and you can honestly look and say "he's done", much like Legace. He had that 'deer in the headlights' look and you knew he was cooked. Howard hasn't shown that to me at all. The first goal took 4 chances to score and the defense allowed that one. The second goal was a total lack of effort by the wings. The third goal makes me think Lidstrom WILL retire after this year. I can't say I've ever seen Lidstrom get totally owned on a play like that one. The fourth goal is a bad goal by Howard, no denying that. Still not enough in my mind to pull him.
The wings are not playing 60 minutes. Even in game 2 there were lapses. Game 1 was ridiculous, and Game 3 was even worse.
What I don't understand is, WHY? Why can't the wings find the effort for a full game? What the hell? They were pulling this in the late stages of last playoff. It's like they think because of what they accomplished that it will all work out, but they forget to put the effort in.
I think we will win on Tuesday, but we won't if we don't play with desperation.
Howard gave up a huge rebound that lead to multiple shots, and the initial shot went right into his glove. That's on Howard, no way around it, and it's a back-breaker of a goal to give up 30 seconds in. The second goal wasn't a horrible goal, but it was utterly terrible timing, and it wasn't far removed from soft. The 3rd goal was not his fault at all. The 4th goal was soft. Howard even admitted that 3 of the goals were blatantly his fault.
All year long, people have been saying that Howard's strong play gives the team confidence. What do you think this weak play from Howard has done to the teams confidence?
Again, how do you think the team feels when the goalie gives up a crap rebound leading to a goal 30 seconds in to game 3 after 2 shaky games that make up the entirety of Howard's playoff experience? If you can say that the team plays better in front of Howard because of his strong play in the regular season, how is it not reasonable to suggest that the team is looking less confident as Howard has looked less confident?
And don't get me wrong, I am absolutely not a Howard hater, and the damn writers were writing this about the Wings and Howard after he struggled to hold a lead in game 2, let alone today's mess.
At the end of the day, I see a rookie goalie who's learning the hard way what it takes to win in the playoffs. He's shown thus far that he hasn't learned what it takes to make it happen yet in the playoffs. That's okay. I wasn't one of the people feeling like he had to be a superstar hero in his rookie year, and I don't like the kid any less or think any less of him for this. I think he's still got plenty of potential to come out of this in the coming seasons and develop into a strong playoff goalie.
But I'll be damned if I care so little about losing that I'd be willing to watch Howard blow this series just because he "got us here." I don't give a s*** who "got us here." I care about winning. I think Howard would agree with me. I think it's one of the stupidestf****** things in the world to say "we win or lose with Howard." I'm sorry, but I'm a Red Wings fan more than I'm a fan of any individual player, and if a guys not getting it done, you've got to do what it takes to see if the next guy can.
Sometimes you've got to shake things up to get a teams attention, especially after a goalie throws things off. Everyone involved with the team knows that Howard's been huge for us this year, and everyone knows he's a rookie and it takes time for most guys to develop. Just as Osgood had to sit in the regular season, Howard may need to sit in the playoffs to let the veteran who knows how to handle the pressure of the big games do his thing. And Howard might learn a thing or two in the process.
If Howard can't give this team a chance to win (he hasn't thus far), they need to see if Osgood can pull off another "miracle," or just continue to be the strong playoff goalie that he's always been. It's no knock on Howard, it's no grudge and there's most certainly no bias to it. I like Jimmy Howard a lot.
But more than anything, I just want to win.
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Posted by gcom007 on 18 April 2010 - 08:13 PM
No, No and 1000 times No. I was was at the game and only 1 goal could have been considered Jimmy's fault. The team stopped playing after the 1st period. The left him out to dry like they they said.
I certainly hope to see a lot better effort on Tuesday.
No one was stopping the 3rd goal on skill alone; it would've taken a hell of a lot of luck to get that one. All the other goals were stoppable. The first and forth were brutal, and the timing on the 2nd was gut-wrenching as well. In the playoffs, oftentimes when you give up goals means far more than how, and he gave up 3 goals in this game at the absolute worst times possible. There's no way around that one.
And in some ways, objectively we have to say that Howard giving up a goal right off the bat and generally not looking solid thus far in the playoffs is not going to help the confidence of the team.
All year long the argument has been that Howard's strong play gave the team confidence. That has been anything but the case in the playoffs, so why shouldn't we hold him to the same standards used to defend him all year?
I really like Jimmy Howard and I think he'll be fine down the stretch in his career, but this is his rookie year and he's simply not getting the job done thus far. If he gets another chance, he needs to turn it around fast or we have to see if Osgood can help in righting the ship.
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Posted by gcom007 on 18 April 2010 - 08:08 PM
You CANNOT blame Babs for not playing Ozzie this year he had NO choice, to say that is ridiculous.. We needed the points just to get here and you were not going to get them by throwing OZZIE out there this season just to get "warmed" up for the playoffs... But in saying that its because of that we unfortunately can't go with anyone else but Howie right now... Its just been a weird year overall Howie really needs to come up big Tuesday GO WINGS!!!
Osgood wasn't playing as bad as many have come to believe. Howard came in and played great when Osgood got sick, and after that Osgood never once got a decent shot to get going again. This goes all the way back to November when there was plenty of time to sort things out.
Granted, I do believe Osgood brought this on himself to some extent as well by mouthing off, in my mind, it never should have been made to be an issue. I said this WAY back when. There was no point in even creating the possibility for a goaltending issue. There's no drama on this team and these guys support each other. Keep them both warm and see how it goes down the stretch because after all, the playoffs are a different beast. I'm not saying I'm so smart. This is simple s***...really, really simple s***.
This is how simple, and seriously, think back to November when this all started...contemplate:
Don't utterly and completely ostracize a guy who went to the Cup Finals two years in a row, winning in '08 and carrying a battered team to game 7 in '09: good idea/bad idea?
Again, I am absolutely not saying that Osgood made a wise move in running his mouth, but Babcock should not have let it ever get to the point where Osgood would be so upset to uncharacteristically run his mouth to the press. His lack of foresight on the matter was wholly and completely lacking.
And also, don't forget, aside from simply not giving Osgood any sense of consistent starts, he did little to nothing to support Osgood at all in the press in continually saying that Howard gives the team the best chance to win when asked about Osgood. True or not at the time, it's just not going to help Osgood's state of mind when he's already stewing about not getting starts. And again, not saying Osgood was right to respond, but he was responding to fairly blatant criticisms of him that Babcock initially made in the press. And the bottom line is that Babcock didn't need to be saying what he was saying. I've been saying it for a long time, Babcock was creating a mess, and that mess is really starting to look like a mistake.
And to respond to what will likely be the first rebuttal...
Sorry, I don't buy for a second that Osgood wouldn't have been able to be a part of getting this team to the playoffs if given consistent starts throughout the season. He had some rough starts, but I have no doubt that he would've gotten things together especially down the stretch when things became more critical. Osgood's a big game goalie and he lives for the playoffs; there's no way he wouldn't give all he had to get there if it was on the line. I have complete faith in that.
Posted by gcom007 on 18 April 2010 - 07:46 PM
Phoenix isn't a bad team. We are right now. On paper it's a different story but currently on ice they haven't showed all year except some post olympic games that they can be a contender. Taking out Howard now only robs him of valuable playoff experience. He has let in a couple bad ones but like was mentioned earlier not everyone can be a Ken Dryden or a Patrick Roy in their rookie year.
We made the playoffs with lackluster play and great play from a young goaltender. If we make it to the 2nd round then great. If not there is always next year. The more games Howard gets now the more prepared he will be come future playoffs.
We need to think about the future more now then we do about getting out of the 1st round of the playoffs this year. Ya I would like to see it but not at the expense of Howard losing experience.
I didn't mean to suggest that Phoenix is a bad team, but they are anything but an offensive powerhouse. They were 24th in the league for the regular season in goals scored at 211. Compared that to San Jose in 4th at 257, Chicago at 3rd with 262, Vancouver at 2nd at 268, and Washington at 1st with 313...if they were playing those teams and they were lighting Jimmy up to the tune of a GAA of close to 4 now, it'd be one thing, but this is Phoenix. They are not a powerful offensive team. That's what scares me about Jimmy Howard going forward at this point.
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Posted by gcom007 on 18 April 2010 - 06:29 PM
Osgood was NOT playing well, so he played howard. That is not poor goalie managment. Dont just have a blind love for osgood because he is a your favorite and give me negative feedback because you dont agree with me. Howard got us to the playoffs and he is playing well enough to keep his starting job. Until he gets a loss when our d is playing up to there full potential you leave him in. Neither of the losses where a result of howard playing bad.
You really should go back and review the first half of the season. In October, Osgood was getting no help but still many were saying he was the only reason we weren't getting blown out in many games. It wasn't so much that Osgood was bad so much as Howard got hot as hell for awhile and Babcock rode him. Then Osgood got pissed and ran his mouth (while his point, now more than ever, was probably valid, it was still a dumb move) and Babcock benches him even longer. Again, before Howard got going after the Toronto game in which Osgood was sick (leading to his being out a week and Howard getting a chance) and the team was horrible, Osgood had a shutout and 3 outstanding games (.950+ sv.% I believe).
Osgood getting benched had to do with Howard playing like a madman and then Osgood running his mouth. He absolutely was not playing nearly as bad as he did in the 2008/09 regular season leading up to it. I was one of the one's saying we needed to give Osgood more of a chance, and i still stand by that, but I'm also not ready to count Osgood out if we need him.
To me, it's really this simple: if Osgood's "bad" in the regular season was enough to bench him, Howard's "bad" thus far in the playoffs is just about enough to bench him.
I say start Howard in game 4 like most, and I'll certainly be cheering for him, but if he lets in 3 goals that aren't absolutely rock solid goals, in my mind, it's time to go to Osgood. The regular season is a different beast than the playoffs, and thus far, Howard has done nothing to prove that he's ready for it.
Again, I'm not saying he's done, and I don't think he's pulling a Manny Legace. I think he's a rookie learning a s***ty lesson. Maybe he'll get it together in game 4, but if not, it's time for him to start learning by watching again.
Posted by gcom007 on 18 April 2010 - 05:57 PM
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Posted by gcom007 on 18 April 2010 - 05:49 PM
To watch Osgood do just as bad? This team has one option in goal and his name is Jimmy Howard. It's glaringly obvious and it doesn't matter who you have allegiances to.
Two Cups while playing, one while watching.
You know that I'm not any sort of a Howard hater. But you know, this is Phoenix and he's looked rough. Can you imagine if we were playing Chicago? Like I said, Osgood very well may be too rusty to pull it off again, but if Howard can't get it together in game 4, you might as well give Osgood a chance. It's not as if he's been injured. He's been practicing. He's not wholly cold. I think in the context of his long career, but especially the last couple years, that Osgood has earned a chance if Howard continues to struggle.
And just as I said earlier, you still learn from the bench. Osgood learned plenty watching Vernon win that first Cup. Sure, he played for only two rings, but that doesn't minimize being a part of winning that 3rd ring. That's why I have no problem with Howard watching. He's still going to learn, and to me, you can "earn your ring" as well as the next guy by watching and learning from the bench.
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Posted by gcom007 on 18 April 2010 - 05:32 PM
Howard would have to let in several Legace-like backbreaking goals before they should yank him to put in Ozzy.
And even then it would be a desperate move. The Wings would probably get a delay of game penalty as they waited for Ozzy to get all the dust off his pads.
How about a goal 20 seconds into the game?
Then how about another with 30 seconds left in the 2nd to surrender a 2-1 lead?
Then how about another 1:30 after we regained momentum and cut their lead to 1 with 10 minutes left in the 3rd?
I'm not saying they were all the softest goals the world has seen, but they were all brutal goals to surrender, if at times not utterly soft and backbreaking as well.
I like Howard and i think he's got a future here, but I want to see them go to Osgood if Howard doesn't come out ready and on fire Tuesday. I'd go so far as to say that if he let's in 3 goals, it's time to go to Osgood. Osgood very well may be too rusty, but I'm not about to count him out either.
And if anything, Howard needs to learn now what it takes. He needs to know the stakes. Getting pulled could end up being a good thing for him as he can still learn from it. And it's a simple lesson: the only way to win in the playoffs is to give your best effort every game. We have yet to see anything close to Howard's best in this post-season.
And I think he has only one more chance to prove otherwise...
Posted by gcom007 on 18 April 2010 - 05:16 PM
Howard doesn't get to 74 playoff wins if you give up on him now. Ozzie wasn't always Mr. Playoff's you know. Not every goalie is going to pull a Ken Dryden in their rookie season. Extreme overreaction.
There's a difference between trading him ASAP and sitting our rookie goalie on the bench to watch in exchange for the best playoff goalie of the last two years with 3 Cups to his name.
Posted by gcom007 on 18 April 2010 - 05:08 PM
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