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Member Since 18 Dec 2003
Online Last Active Today, 03:08 PM

#2436361 Cleary re-signs with Detroit, 1 year, $1.75m deal

Posted by gcom007 on 12 September 2013 - 07:31 PM

Again, I don't know if this is a good deal yet for the team, as we're yet to see who it affects. If it means moving promising young guys or alienating them (further in some cases...), then I think it's a very bad move. But purely from the standpoint of the kind of player we got for the money, it's a very good, solid deal. I wouldn't say great. Hossa for life at $5 million is great. Cleary for a year at $1.75 is just a good deal. He took a lot less money to stay, and given his age, may've risked a lot of money given that he could've signed a 3-year deal if he made the Flyers. That's all impressive in this day and age, and I think it's a testament to who Dan Cleary is and what he means to this team.


And that said, I think we might be undervaluing him in that regard, as now you have a mid-level vet in the locker room who turned down the chance at a lot more money to be a part of this team, because this team is special. I've said for awhile that we need more of that kind of attitude on the Wings again and less of the paying older floaters like Samuellson $3 million a year or career underachievers like Flip anything close to the $5 million or whatever it is he wanted. Given that there's no going back now, I can only hope this attitude rubs off on more guys in the dressing room. Hopefully our younger guys that will undoubtedly see less ice time because of this will be mature enough to look at the situation with some perspective and consider why Cleary did what he did.


And again, to be clear, if he signed for a penny more than $2 million, I'd be livid about this. And if we end up losing one of our better prospects over this, I'll likely get livid then. But for now, I'm focusing on the upside of it, and hoping that things work out for the best. If they can smooth out the roster and cap issues without hurting the future of this roster, it'll continue to be a very good signing for the Wings. Hopefully he's motivated to prove that this wasn't a mistake either and earn an extension and silence the doubters. Time will tell.


One thing for sure though is that it's going to make for a hell of an interesting pre-season...

#2436118 Cleary re-signs with Detroit, 1 year, $1.75m deal

Posted by gcom007 on 12 September 2013 - 11:02 AM

Good price, I'm fine with that. But whether this is a good deal or not boils down to who else it affects.

#2435918 Report: Cleary to sign with PHI, 3 yrs, $2.75m/yr, NTC

Posted by gcom007 on 11 September 2013 - 07:52 PM

This is bizarre.


If they do end up losing Tatar over this, my mind is going to be blown, but I don't even know if I'll have the emotional energy to get angry. s*** like this is just not surprising anymore, and that's sad. I've defended and criticized Cleary in the past and in this thread, and while I think he still has value at the right price, I think it'd be nuts to end up losing someone like Tatar so you can get Cleary in his last few years when he's already been on a serious decline. He had a great playoffs, but he's had terrible playoffs in the past too. Again, somewhere in the $1-2 million range is what Cleary should get if he signs with the Wings, and it should only be if it means not losing or further alienating some of your top prospects.


In any event, again, this is just a bizarre situation at this point.

#2431194 Brunner Contract Talks

Posted by gcom007 on 22 July 2013 - 03:46 PM

It just hit me again how colossally insane it was to sign Samuelsson at $3 million a season. I honestly don't remember being angry about it then, as I haven't really been surprised by much the last couple years with Holland. It was just a matter of, "Oh, of course he signed Sameuelsson for $3 million a season!" And you know, I'll defend him in some ways more than some will, at least in terms of his past performance. He came up clutch for us on more than a few occasions. But goodnight, It's unbelievable how bad that deal looks right now.


Like Brunner or not, it'd be better to be able to gamble on him for another year than deal with Sammy, who has and will likely continue to be captain of the press box.


I'd rather have Cleary at $3 million than Sammy, and that's saying so, so, so, so, so much.

#2428207 Wings Attempting to Re-sign Cleary

Posted by gcom007 on 06 July 2013 - 06:28 PM

I don't hate the idea of having Cleary back in general, but $2.6 million is just nuts. The guy is getting too old and while he has had his moments, particularly in the playoffs this year, his body will continue to break down and he'll become more and more inconsistent. And let's face it, consistency has never been his strong point, especially in the playoffs even when he was younger.


This was his best playoff year since the 08/09 run, and the years between were hardly stellar. Seems to me that we're gambling on what was likely a fluke offseason points streak. Again, that's just not going to get any easier for him to come by the older he gets. Given what we've seen and his age, it's a lot more likely that he'll come up empty in the post-season again than he will come up big like he did this year. And let's be honest, does anyone think the Wings would really be as eager to sign him after his regular season if not for the playoff points? I think we'd want him, but I think we'd laugh hysterically at the idea of paying him what we've been paying him.


Again, I don't mind having Cleary around, but at this stage, with the cap, his age, and his inconsistency to consider, if he wants to stay on this team and make a run, he should be taking a team-first contract. We ultimately don't need him, and that really ought to be the bottom line when negotiating with him. 

#2427991 Wings sign Alfredsson to 1-year, $3.5m deal (+$2m bonuses)

Posted by gcom007 on 06 July 2013 - 11:13 AM


That's called "The Brendan Shanahan Effect".


On the Alfie/Bourque comparisons, those we really different situations.  Alfie's leaving as a UFA where Bourque was traded at the deadline by a GM/organization that was trying to get him a Cup specifically.  


Yep, plus it brought a return to Boston. Alfie just walked leaving Ottawa with nothing. I don't know if I blame him, and I do get it. But it's still just very weird.

#2427500 is anyone happy right now?

Posted by gcom007 on 05 July 2013 - 04:32 PM

The fact the Wings decided to sign "a devil that they don't know" instead of Filppula for almost the same amount of money speaks for itself....Weiss >>Filppula


When you have the career you've had thus far with the Wings, including all the disappointments and frustrations, and you demand a long term deal for $5.5 million because you believe you're "worth 1st line center money," I think that's you telling the Wings it's time to move on. Flip was never going to get the role he wanted on this team. The big mistake was not trading him 2-3 years ago when the situation was no different and he was our best trade asset.

#2427492 is anyone happy right now?

Posted by gcom007 on 05 July 2013 - 04:27 PM

I'm somewhat indifferent. I see positives and negatives to what's gone on today.


Alfredsson is a descent pickup for one year, but I think it would've been better to go after Lecavalier.


Weiss at $4.9 is fine in a world where Flip makes $5 million. Even if it's very much a lateral move that could go either way, I think Flip needed a change of scenery, and I think he knew that when he demanded the money he did. He likely knew the Wings wouldn't pay, and he knew he wanted a bigger role, and it wasn't going to happen here. Maybe that's why he struggled. He wasn't going to get that bigger role so long as Dats and Z is here, so it makes sense now to try something new for both sides, and again, Weiss is a totally reasonable replacement that could be an improvement, could be a downgrade, or could end up being pretty much the same. I shrug at this move, but again, I'm glad a hole was plugged for a change, so there's that.


I don't like not going after Brunner hard. I don't know how it all plays out, but my gut reaction is that it's not the smartest of moves. 


If we find a way to sign Cleary for dirt cheap and he takes a lesser role, I think it'll be a move that frustrates many now, but will pay off come spring.


I still think we really need to try to add a solid defenseman somehow, and given our wealth of forwards and need to move some of them, hopefully we can swing something. When your top guy leads the league in penalty minutes for defensemen, you really could use another "top guy" that's a bit more level headed to lead that defense. Doesn't have to be a star, but if we want to make a serious run, having someone reliable that you can instantly plug into your top-4 would be really great to have right now.

#2427466 Dan Cleary Watch

Posted by gcom007 on 05 July 2013 - 04:14 PM

With what cap space? And what space on the roster? As it is they need to sign 3 RFAs and have 16 forwards.


Oh, I didn't say that I think it's a reasonable possibility at this point or I know how it might work. I'm just saying that there are some who are undervaluing what he could bring to the table at the right price. Some seem to regard him as a useless player at this point, and I just don't see that as the case. I wouldn't want him at anything close to what he's making currently, and the older he gets, the more it's a gamble to give him that money. But if he were willing to accept that lesser role I mentioned for a lot less money, he'd be a great asset on a lot of teams, including the Wings.

#2427432 Brunner Contract Talks

Posted by gcom007 on 05 July 2013 - 03:56 PM

Alfredson isn't a bad deal (still think Vinny would've been a much smarter way to go), and Weiss, while mostly lateral, was necessary and it's good to see that a hole was plugged instead of left wide open for a change. But I don't think losing Brunner is a good call. You can blame Sammy all you want with his injury complaint, but someone still signed him to a crazy stupid deal last summer in the first place.

#2427266 Dan Cleary Watch

Posted by gcom007 on 05 July 2013 - 02:40 PM


@Real_ESPNLeBrun: Lots of action on UFA winger Dan Cleary. Wings still in the mix




Maybe they'll leverage him into signing dirt cheap. I'd be fine with keeping him for dirt cheap, but alas, it's highly unlikely to happen. 

#2427256 Wings buy out Colaiacovo, will keep Bertuzzi

Posted by gcom007 on 05 July 2013 - 02:36 PM

Just gotta say, read Colaiacovo's interview with the team website ( http://redwings.nhl....676419&navid=DL|DET|home ) and it's pretty clear that Carlo is a classy guy. I was a little bummed to see him go as I thought he was one of the surprising players in the playoffs relative to missing the whole year. I get why it went down, but it's too bad those injuries follow him around. Might've ended differently for him here.

#2425966 The Overreaction Thread

Posted by gcom007 on 04 July 2013 - 03:44 PM

The Wings can get rid of him. Pay him 100% if necessary. Just get rid of him.


Not going to happen at this point. Their one and only hope at this point is that he spends the year on LTIR. But who cares? What makes anyone think that the same Holland that was dumb enough to sign him last summer would do much better with the cap room this summer? Holland hasn't done jack s*** to prove that he's able to bring in players that make this team even marginally better via free agency or trade in the four years that we actually started to feel the effects of the cap.


Teams like Chicago find a way to seemingly overspend, regroup, and rebuild around their rock solid core. In the process, they've now won two Cups.


Holland, meanwhile, has paid crap players too much, failed to sign or trade for anyone meaningful, lost his top three defensemen over the course of a little over a year while failing to add a player even close to equivalent to the least talented of the three defensemen lost. In the process, our best run came in spite of Holland's free agency efforts last summer when our kids from GR came up to do the work that our injured or sputtering "NHLers" were unable to do either due to injury or simply because they weren't very good at all.


That said, what do you truly expect at this point? While it sounds almost incomprehensible even for Holland that he'd let Brunner and Flip walk without adding at least someone respectable enough to maybe be a second line center, I really wouldn't be shocked if he lost both guys and just signed Cleary. Everyone keeps saying Weiss, but I'll be very surprised if Holland pulls it off. Somehow, he'll end up being too expensive or something. It's always something, and then it's always "trades" or "next summer."


I think I'd rather have Stan Bowman. He's won two Cups maneuvering through the same cap difficulties we've had if not worse, and he was smart enough to sign Hossa at a great cap hit when he had the chance. Plus, then we'd still have Scotty Bowman around. You can't deny the correlation between Bowman leaving the organization and our ability to sign or trade for NHLers that improve our team, nor Chicago's success since Bowman came into the fold and Stan took over as GM there. Obviously we can't say that it's an absolute explanation and Holland was just his puppet, but it's tough to deny that it hasn't played some part in said team's successes and struggles.

#2425352 The Overreaction Thread

Posted by gcom007 on 03 July 2013 - 10:51 AM

We were competitive last season. We were the closest team to beating the Cup Champs in the playoffs. Holland may be too conservative sometimes and too loyal sometimes, but atleast he doesn't do a deal just to do a deal if he is afraid it could handcuff the team down the road. 


The Lecavalier situation is a perfect example. We all would have liked him RIGHT NOW, and so did Holland it seemed. But in 3 years? In 4? 5? He's already declined a lot from what he once was. Philly is known for handing out crazy contracts that put them in terrible situations after a couple of years, it's no surprise they were the ones willing to take that chance. 


Holland isn't the guy that is willing to put everything on one card (like Pittsburgh kinda did this season) and say "we want to win THIS YEAR", but he finds ways to put a decent team out there, even if this last season he got a bit lucky with Dekeyser falling into our laps. 


So Lecavalier at $4.5 million for 5 years is handcuffing the team and whatever absurd contracts Holland was about to give Parise and Suter for far longer at twice the price were...what then?

#2425330 The Overreaction Thread

Posted by gcom007 on 03 July 2013 - 10:21 AM

I don't think anyone's arguing (well, at least...) that Holland wasn't a great GM at one point. What a lot of people are noting is that as we have moved far enough into the new era where we really started feeling the weight of the cap, Holland's struggled to show that he can maneuver well in free agency or with other teams via trade. That is a real problem, right now. It doesn't matter that once upon a time he did this or that; "this or that" from "way back when" have no bearing on "hear and now." Hear and now, he can't figure out how to sign or trade for difference makers, and he's tried plenty.


Holland's let people slip away that he shouldn't. He continues to cling to players he shouldn't. He overpays for mid-level talent based largely it seems on familiarity. He tries to underpay for high-level talent, which ultimately has failed every time. And when he fails, he's the king of revisionists, make no mistake. That guy finds a way to reshape everything that happened as part of some master plan, and it must be working, because there's plenty of non-critical thinkers who keep falling for it and praising Holland because of what he did in another era now long past us.


Oh, I guess it's easy forgetting in an instant that Holland was desperate to throw $9 million plus at both Suter and Parise last summer.


Oh, that's right, I remember now, Holland is so smart for not overpaying for free agents!


Now that we didn't sign them...


"We like our team."


I'm not trying to take anything away from what Holland has done, but if he was as great of a GM as people want to paint him to be in this cap era, he would not be struggling so much in the free agency and trade markets. You can say all you want about what he did in the past, but no one willing to be objective can say that Holland has shown that he has a strong handle, let alone any handle, on helping this team via trade or free agency lately. And like it or not (for the sake of some of ever-shifting argument), trade and free agency are still very important parts of this game.