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#2624530 Franzen back on ice

Posted by haroldsnepsts on Yesterday, 03:24 PM

But, but, but, he's had 1000 concussions! His family clearly doesn't have his best interests at heart. What about the fans? Doesn't he care about what we think? I'M concerned for his well being! And I am not fully supportive of his decision! Ya know, cause I care about him so much...
Anyway we definitely should have gone with Hossa back in 09. Kenny sucks.
These reports are making Franzen sound far from lazy...

The sarcasm and straw man fallacies from the Franzen police are getting old.

Switch out Cleary for Franzen in these discussions. Cleary still thinks he can contribute to the Red Wings. He likely has the full support of his family too, so I guess we shouldn't express any hesitation or criticism of his wishes. After all, he and the team know better than we do. And he's been training hard this off season after all.

Heaven forbid someone state an opinion about a player on a Red Wings fan forum, even if it contradicts the wishes of the player himself or his family.

Okay I don't know what beef you guys had in 2009 about Hossa/Franzen, since I didn't join here till 2013 but apparently this is some deep seeded stuff. 
S*** must have gone down bad in these forums the last half decade or so. 
Can we stick to the matter at hand please.
Do we know of any athlete who has done this similar type of approach? It sounds like he's not cleared but he's pushing himself. What I'd like to know is, if this has worked in the past. 

And I mean specific to traumatic brain injury, not "I hurt my back" or "my knee is bad"

I've not heard of any athlete who's done this kind of approach, not to say it hasn't happened.

Though honestly it seems pretty stupid on Franzen's part if he's not working closely with a neurologist throughout his rehab. I understand the reasoning he's using but is it based on any evidence or sound medical reasoning? He may be delaying his recovery instead of accelerating it.

#2624448 Franzen back on ice

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 02 September 2015 - 02:08 PM

Here's the mlive article with the video interview.

Someone needs to start a kickstarter campaign or something so mlive can buy a decent microphone. The reporter's questions are loud and clear but Mule sounds like he's answering from a bathroom down the hallway.


#2624435 Franzen back on ice

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 02 September 2015 - 12:56 PM

To add some levity to this discussion, note Franzen's comment about himself on instagram.


#2624223 Curtis Glencross regrets taking hometown discount

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 31 August 2015 - 09:40 AM

No he did'nt say he's struggling, but why say those things? Pretty pointless. Does he expect sympathy because he left money on the table and now he regrets it because teams aren't throwing big contracts at him and he's still a UFA with training camps looming? He got paid $10 million dollars to play hockey for four seasons. He should just keep his mouth shut.


Because he was being interviewed? 


If people are so bitter that these athletes are paid so much money for playing hockey, why even watch the sport?  You're the ones ultimately paying their salaries.


Hockey is entertainment.  And entertainment is big business.  These guys come from an elite talent pool and are paid accordingly.  Technically they're actually underpaid because their salaries are artificially restricted by the cap.

#2624192 Curtis Glencross regrets taking hometown discount

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 30 August 2015 - 05:40 PM

Well, he's essentially saying the same thing you are. He thinks he made a mistake and regrets it 


He point totals are actually not on a straight "downward progression":

10-11: 43 pts.

11-12: 48 pts.

12-13: 26 pts. (38 GP) lockout shortened

13-14: 24 pts. (40 GP)

14-15: 35 pts


He's been pretty steady for points even though he's played for some pretty awful Flames teams and was injured half of 13-14. He's 32. A guy like him should be able to get a 2-3 year deal. This year teams just seem to up against the cap this year and have been hugging the check book a little tighter.


Edit: I just hope Helm and Abdelkader don't read these articles.




It's not like he literally didn't understand it was a business.  If a player doesn't take a hometown discount as fans we call him greedy. Then a player expresses regret for taking a hometown discount and now he's greedy AND stupid.  


It's not like Glencross literally didn't understand the NHL is a business.  During contract negotiations I'm sure management lobbies for him to be a "team player" and take a hometown discount.  He got traded after a bad stretch and now feels his loyalty to them was not returned.


It is a business, but I get why he regrets it.  He didn't capitalize when the conditions were tilted more in his favor.  Most players just don't talk about it that openly. 

#2624179 Curtis Glencross regrets taking hometown discount

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 30 August 2015 - 03:56 PM

Again, Glencross isn't saying anything about struggling to live on the millions he's made.  


He's talking about leaving money on the table.  Now that he's been traded after taking a hometown discount he realizes that this is first and foremost a business and regrets his decision.  

#2624080 Hall of Fame Coach Al Arbour Dies at 82

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 29 August 2015 - 11:00 AM

No team in sports will ever win 19 consecutive playoff series again.  Too much parity now.  


Those Islander teams are probably my favorite dynasty in NHL history.  


Considering what they achieved the Islanders seem like the most overlooked dynasty in NHL history. 



4 Stanley Cups in a row (Montreal is the only other team to better that feat and it was in the original 6 years)

Won 19 consecutive playoff series (a completely untouchable record) and posted a 60-18 post season record


They accomplished all this only 8 years after their creation as an expansion team. 

#2624079 Free agents this off season

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 29 August 2015 - 10:51 AM

I forgot Matt Cooke was bought out by the Wild. 


I'm guessing some team will pick him up for cheap, but I hold out hope this will be the year that POS is finally out of the league. 



#2624016 Hall of Fame Coach Al Arbour Dies at 82

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 28 August 2015 - 03:48 PM

A couple more short pieces on Arbour if any of the youngin's here who may not know who he was are interested.  


Definitely one of the greatest coaches of all time. 






#2623911 Franzen back on ice

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 26 August 2015 - 09:23 PM

I'm sure your heart is bleeding for the future of Johan and the rest of the Franzen family.  I mean, sometimes you have to save people from themselves. 


It seems pretty clear he wants to play.  It seems a little less clear, but still reasonably clear, that he'll be allowed to try.  And it seems mostly clear that he'll make this team better.  So I honestly don't see what the problem is.  Why not get on board the bandwagon and wish him luck, for all the good agonizing over it will do you?


I'm not trying to save Franzen from himself.  Obviously it's Mule's decision. It's between him and the Red Wings organization.  I don't think anyone has argued otherwise.  


As for speculating on his health, we're talking about a guy who's had at least 5 concussions and will have taken half a year to come back from the last one.   No one is saying he'll be a vegetable after another hit.  He could play out his career and be fine or he could take a puck to the head in practice and suffer post concussion syndrome for the rest of his life without ever playing another game.  No one knows. That's kinda the point.


But he is clearly at higher risk than most NHL players.   To me it's not exactly a bold stance to be concerned about the future of his career after his concussion history.


Which is why I don't get why people expressing concern is so upsetting.  People shouldn't criticize Franzen as a player, and now when they express concern for him that's not okay either?  What exactly is ok to say about Mule?


You joke about people thinking they know better than Franzen how his health is, but is that any more ridiculous than thinking you can tell people's true motives for expressing concern, and that they're faking it?

Your quotes are more manipulated than Kip's, though. they're not what Franzen is currently or recently saying.


Franzen "couldn't get out of bed" a quite a while ago. He's said he never thought he wouldn't return and said he thought he'd play in round 2. 


He's not cleared yet, but has there been an earlier time to be cleared? If he said he'd be ready for round 2, I think adding a full summer of recouping time makes it pretty likely he'll clear. He's been training and skating without set backs (or reported setbacks, at least). GM says they expect him to be ready at the beginning of camp. Everything points to him playing the beginning of the season so I don't think people are ignore the facts by including him in rosters.


I like the Monty Python references, though. She turned me into a newt!!!...................I got better.


Honestly it's more that I botched the Python reference than anything.   I should've had Franzen saying the lines I didn't put in quotes.  But my (hopefully) clearer thoughts are above.

#2623905 Franzen back on ice

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 26 August 2015 - 08:23 PM

Anybody remember that old guy in Monty Pythons Holy Grail who keeps assuring his son he's fine, but the son's adament that the geezer will be "stone dead in a minute"? That's how I'm beginning to see this Franzen thing. Half the folks around here seem more sure of the peril than franzen, his doctors, or the organization.

"I'd probably have player if we had beaten Tampa."

"No, no. Your career and life are in jeopardy."

" I'm practicing again."

"Wrong, you're minutes away from being a vegetable."


Anybody remember that guy in Monty Python who had his limbs hacked off but kept insisting it was a flesh wound? Half the folks around here seem awful certain he's not at risk for permanent damage as a result of his multiple concussions.


"I didn't get out of bed for a month" 


Can't wait to get you back in the lineup Mule.


"I'm not medically cleared yet." 


I'm thinking you'll play on the second line. 


"I've had at least 5 documented concussions.  The last two being less than a year apart" 


Should be good for 50ish points.  



Straw men are fun.

#2623895 Franzen back on ice

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 26 August 2015 - 02:05 PM

I didn't see anybody talking about "quality of life" when Yzerman could barely skate (or walk).  I'd imagine that affected his ability to play with his kids, or hell, even get out of bed.  Yet he was gutsy, team first, leader for hanging on long past his prime, even as his contract, production, and presence became increasingly prohibitive.  His best seasons in the latter years were only as good as what Franzen is doing now, mostly for more money. 


I had considered that regarding Yzerman and other players willingly sacrificing their body but to me it's different when it's your brain. 


With your knee there's so much more that's known about what your quality of life will be and what the treatment options will be, like a knee replacement.  With CTE and post concussion syndrome it's literally your entire world that could be affected.  


I'd take chronic knee pain any day over potentially years of migraines, memory loss, noise and light sensitivity, depression, nausea, and personality changes. 


I can't speak for others but for me it's truly not about wanting Franzen off the team.  It's more about me remembering these guys are people with lives and not just hockey players I root for and/or criticize.  In the craziness that comes with fandom, it's easy for me to forget that sometimes.

#2623881 Franzen back on ice

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 26 August 2015 - 09:28 AM

I understand the concern for his health, but I just don't understand why there's this level of concern this time when it hasn't been around before. In his other numerous times away did we have this debate? I don't think so. Why would other players just target him now? His history of cuncussions has been around for a while and he hasn't been especially targeted imo.


He's said that he thinks he would have played if we made it to the 2nd round. That makes it sound less career threatening to me. I think that soundbite about his kids just caught people, but we don't really know the severity of the injury and how long the worst effects lasted. 


I think it's extremely unlikely he would've played if the Wings made it to the second round.  It sounds like he still isn't even medically cleared.


Has he had a concussion that took him out this long?  I'm sure the soundbite about not being able to play with his kids is part of it, but he also said he basically didn't get out of bed for a month because the migraines were so bad.  


So say it takes him 6 months to get back to feeling 100% again.  How long will it take next time?  


And I don't think the hit from Klinkhammer that caused this concussion even contacted his head.  It was an unexpected hit (and I think opportunistic cheapshot) that rattled him enough to cause it.  It's not like he only has to beware of Matt Cooke flying elbows to the noggin.  


I've definitely railed on Franzen for his lack of competitiveness but when healthy he's still a 55 point player the Wings could use.  I still just can't bring myself to be excited about the comeback of a guy who seems so prone to concussions and is suffering the kind of symptoms he has the last 6 months. 

#2623817 Dan Cleary re-signing still possible?

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 24 August 2015 - 08:11 PM

Wow. Even from Toronto that dastardly Babcock is somehow forcing Holland to sign Cleary again.

I knew Babcock was good, but I didn't know he was that good.

#2623713 Darryl Sydor Charged Drunken Driving

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 22 August 2015 - 11:39 AM

His blood alcohol level was .30 at 5:15pm on a Thursday and he was driving that drunk with his son in the car.

The next move should probably be rehab.