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Member Since 11 Feb 2004
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#2533084 Favorite Dan Cleary Moment or Play

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 27 July 2014 - 04:02 PM

Best part of that is he doesnt seem to have been pushed and the puck is on the other side of the ice lol

Never trust a gif.
He was crosschecked in the back prior to running into the crossbar.  Part of the reason he reacts the way he does is it looks like he hits his face on the crossbar.
And he was going hard to the net to get open for a pass or rebound.   It probably looks unfamiliar because he's one of the few Wings players who does it.  


#2532503 Babcock Interview on 105.1 this morning

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 18 July 2014 - 04:55 PM


That's legit, but nobody is remembering how Quenneville nearly did the exact same thing to us with those Blues teams in the late 90's that were significantly less talented than our Cup teams.  And he was coaching against Bowman. 


One of the reasons that I think Quenneville is a great coach?  Of the 15 times he's made the playoffs he's won the Cup twice and lost to the eventual Cup winner 7 times including three times to the Bowman Wings (widely considered some of the greatest teams EVER to play hockey) of the late 90's and early 2000's.  The best teams Babs has lost to?  Quenneville's Hawks a year ago. 


Before he hooked up with the Hawks though, he made it out of the 2nd round of the playoffs once in 10 years as a head coach.  Losing to the eventual cup winner in a first round series doesn't really count for much to me. 


Babcock took out the 2003 Red Wings in 4 games with a Ducks roster that wasn't exactly stacked with stars and got them to game 7 of the Finals.

in 2007 he took the Wings to the Conference finals, losing to a great team and eventual Cup winner in the Ducks . 

In 2008 he won the Cup

In 2009 he went through the Ducks, still a very good team, and beat Quenneville's Blackhawks (the next year's Cup winner), then took the Pens (who people here don't like to admit but were a great team) to 7 games.

In 2013 he took the Blackhawks to game 7 OT with a lineup that had no business hanging with the Hawks.


I think Quenneville is a good coach, but I still put Babcock a notch above him.  

#2532498 Babcock Interview on 105.1 this morning

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 18 July 2014 - 02:37 PM


Babcock is ONE OF the best coaches.  I agree.  We just happen to disagree on him being THE BEST coach, which is what you said initially.  And it's not like he came on to a bad team either.  Any argument made in his favor is equally valid for Sutter or Quenneville who, nevertheless, have more Cups. 


It's obviously opinion at this point but there's no way I'd want Quenneville over Babcock.  Sutter maybe.  I think Sutter outcoached and exposed the Hawks this playoffs, and Babcock almost did it the previous year with a helluva lot less talent. 

Here's part of the reason I think Babs is a great coach. 



"The way I look at it here, if you don't want to be coached, don't come here," Bacock said via Detroit Sports 105.1. "If you want to be pushed to be the best that you can be, that's what we do here. You know what? The proof is in the pudding.

"If [the Wings] are concerned about [free agents not liking me], then I should coach somewhere else."


Am I warm and cuddly every day? I am with my family. I think I care a lot about my players. When you care about people, you make them do it right. When you don't, and there's lots of coaches that don't, then their teams don't do it right and they don't have success. We just have the hard meetings. We get it out front. Does it piss people off once in a while? Absolutely. But it also leads to behavioral changes and getting things better. So you know what, I'm not apologizing for that stuff at all.




#2532387 Babcock Interview on 105.1 this morning

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 17 July 2014 - 05:36 PM

The Wing's front office obviously realizes that fans are upset, because this is pretty clearly Babcock doing damage control for Holland. 


Here's an article also referencing the interview.  


"Last year, he didn't bring anything," Babcock said. "But the year before, he was a key, key component leadership-wise, forechecking-wise, heavy on the puck-wise, just being a heck of a player for us."

He added that the investment was made after receiving a vote of confidence from the team's trainer regarding the status of Cleary's troublesome knee. 

"We've been told that his knee’s really come on. If he’s on one leg like he was last year, he can’t play on our team. 

"If he’s on two legs, he can help us win."





I guess we'll just wait and see what the future and Cleary's knee holds. I'm also not sure how much confidence I should give their trainer given the Wing's extensive injuries last season. 

#2532298 Ex-NHL Referee Paul Stewart Blog

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 16 July 2014 - 07:14 PM

I was never a huge fan of Stewart when he was a ref and things like this affirm it.  Not as bad as McGeough but Stewart seemed to have a big ego and it affected how he managed games. 


Regarding Lindros, if those stories are true it sounds like Lindros was being a hothead rookie, but never talking to the guy again and admitting that it affected how you called penalties on him for the rest of his career??  


 I did NOT go out of my way to "invent" penalties on Lindros -- or any player -- but I wasn't going to give that guy a break on anything borderline that I might have let slide with a player who had gained acceptability with me.




And then he has another grudge with Ferraro? He basically admits to playing favorites. It sounds like he took it all way too personally for an NHL ref.


As for Yzerman being a whiner, I don't remember him doing much of it early in his career but as he got into the later years he definitely didn't hesitate to give refs an earful.  

#2531994 Forum Rules Refresher. PLEASE READ

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 14 July 2014 - 09:46 AM

An update:


I know people are unhappy about the signing, but enough with the Cleary jokes in every single thread on the forum.  


For starters, they're usually not that funny as it gets old very fast.  Second, it makes it difficult to carry on a conversation about the actual topic. 


Thank you. 

#2531956 Wings re-sign Cleary $1.5 mill + $1mill in game bonuses

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 13 July 2014 - 06:22 PM

ok folks, let's please get back on topic about this great off season acquisition by Holland.  

#2531852 Wings re-sign Cleary $1.5 mill + $1mill in game bonuses

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 12 July 2014 - 03:12 PM

Of course you missed the point about extrapolation and it not being baseless. Besides, speculation is part of being a fan. It's what happens after the GM puts out cryptic messages.


And Harold you really aren't sure whether Cleary's agent would bring that up?

After Holland indicates that he kinda sorta didn't really want to sign him, but loyalty yadda yadda...That's you're honest opinion?


There probably isn't a sports agent who wouldn't at the very least try and use that if their client wanted another deal (I know more 'speculation')



I just don't see why you're creating things to get mad at Cleary about.  There's plenty enough to be mad about as a Red Wings fan right now that is factually known. 

#2531824 Confused on the direction of this team going forward

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 12 July 2014 - 12:09 PM

Him being lazy, floating, being streaky. He is basically their franzen but he puts up slightly higher point totals.


What??  Hossa is streaky maybe, but he isn't lazy or a floater.  The guy goes all out even when he's not putting up points. 


The biggest downside of Hossa is his increasing list of nagging injuries.  

#2531822 Tom Renney could be leaving, too.

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 12 July 2014 - 12:03 PM

Calling Professor Larionov, Professor Larionov, please report to human resources...


I'm not sure he'd be the best PP coach. 


"Just make a perfect pass to the spot where you know Kozlov will be.  He'll make a couple nice moves in the corner and throw a no look pass to where Konstantinov will be, who is cutting back door from the point.  If Vladdy doesn't have a high percentage scoring chance then Fedorov will have already moved into position by the far post for an outlet.  Simple."

#2531809 Wings re-sign Cleary $1.5 mill + $1mill in game bonuses

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 12 July 2014 - 11:31 AM

"Of course I can explain what's wrong with this, I just don't want to! I'll just say it's made up cuz i'm a mod" Well done harold, well done.

It came off as maybe more blunt than intended because I didn't elaborate, but my point stands that you are making all this conjecture about things we have no real idea about.

Sure it's speculation. But it isn't baseless. It's called extrapolation and its amazing the amount of info you can get by it. You should try it sometime!
Answer me this:
Do you really think he turned down a 3 year deal from Detroit because his heart was in Detroit? Does that make sense to you?
        - doesn't make sense to me


I have no idea and neither do you.  He may not have realized how much he liked playing on the Wings until he was confronted with the reality of playing on another team.  Who knows.

Did he turn down multi-year offers from multiple teams (or even 1 team) to come back? Or was it a tryout with one team with no guarantees?
        -Indications are it was the latter (I'll admit I'm not positive as its been claimed both ways, still alot of confusion about this)


Holland has said (who you're using as a source so let's say he's reliable) that Cleary had multiple offers from other teams.

“He had three-year offers from some teams last year,” Holland said. “We said at the time we would talk at the end of the season.”


Do you think this handshake deal has nothing to do with this signing?
        -Quotes from Holland strongly indicate it does


I never said it doesn't. As you point out, Holland said it does.

Do you really think his agent was just going to forget about said deal?
        -Wouldn't be much of an agent if he did. Of course he's going to reach out to the GM about it.


Probably. who knows. But you're stating it as fact and it's speculation on your part.

And please tell me what kind of positive leadership the guy is bringing to the table and (if there is any) how that outweighs his on ice performances.
        -If they need his locker room presence so bad then they could pay him to sit in the locker room. Pay him a million buck for a few years to be 'President of Team Morale'. No need to sign him to a playing contract.

I don't need to tell you any of that. If you read any of my posts in this thread, I'm not in favor of bringing Cleary back.



I just pointed out that you're hating him for invented reasons. That he only came back because no one else wanted him.  That he thinks he deserves special treatment.  That his agent keeps bringing up this handshake deal.
Nothing you've quoted confirms any of that.  It's all just your speculation, which you admit.  Which means it is not factual, it is made up based on your opinion.  

#2531740 Wings re-sign Cleary $1.5 mill + $1mill in game bonuses

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 12 July 2014 - 12:56 AM

Last time was almost totally on Cleary. He was offered a 3-year deal by Ken, turned it down....and then came crawling back cuz his heart was still in Detroit? If that was the case he would have signed the first deal. It was only when he found out that every other team thinks he is worthless that he came back cuz his 'heart' was here.


And this time around he won't give it up because of some 'handshake' deal that was made last time. He actually thinks he deserves special treatment after that god-awful season he had because of that 'handshake'.


As much as I blame Holland for signing him (and I do quite a bit, for he has total power to just walk away and not sign him), even he knows what a bad deal this is. Already he's trying to pawn it off on players/coach & good/bad loyalty quotes.


I can't be certain who initiated these talks but I'm sure his agent wasn't going to stop letting Holland know about that 'handshake'. And Holland to his greatest fault went for it.


I know monetary wise it'd be stupid to turn it down, but all this talk of his 'leadership' is bulls*** because the guy isn't a leader. He's a hound chasing a squirrel. One of your 'team leaders' shouldn't be dragging the team down, especially if that is literally the only supposed thing he brings to the table. If he was truly a team leader he would be doing what is best for the team, and whats best for the team is him off of it.


For simplicity's sake, I bolded the parts you're making up. 

#2531719 Wings re-sign Cleary $1.5 mill + $1mill in game bonuses

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 11 July 2014 - 11:10 PM



Lidstrom was a competitor, hell all pro athletes are. You don't get to that level without being one. Knowing when to walk away is one thing he definitely didn't learn from Nick. I don't blame him completely, but he can't be so blind to think he can still hack it on this team.


The Perfect Human is a tough example for anyone to follow.  Lidstrom went out a step slower but still near the top of his game. 


For all we know Cleary may want to come back because he knows he was terrible last season and doesn't want to go out that way. 


Like I said, it's not Cleary's job to decide whether or not he should be on the team.  

#2531716 Wings re-sign Cleary $1.5 mill + $1mill in game bonuses

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 11 July 2014 - 10:53 PM

Remember after the '13 playoffs, and even though we had just dropped a 3-1 series lead against the hawks, thinking "well at least next year we can improve by not having Cleary on the team"....


Does Cleary not realize that he is making everybody hate him? He could have retired after that season and been remember as a warrior and contributor for his time with the Wings.


Now the only thing main thing people are are going to remember about him is this f***in debacle two years in a row.

He'll be remembered as the guy who made the wings worse because he was too selfish to just hang them up.

He better hope like hell that this isn't the year they miss the playoffs because he will be the scapegoat for a LONG time (as well as Holland, he hasn't thought about his impending legacy as the guy who f***ed up the great Red Wings either)


Cleary is a competitor.  What made him great for those years is the same thing that makes him not want to quit now.  I can't fault a guy for wanting to play for the Red Wings for another year.  


If Cleary makes the team it's because the GM who gave him this contract and his coach decided he should have a spot over younger players.  That's not Cleary's fault.  It's not his responsibility to decline a job with the Red Wings because the GM can no longer evaluate talent effectively. 


I don't think he should've been offered a contract but if the Wings make the playoffs or not, I blame Cleary for nothing.  

#2531673 Tomas Jurco's Ridiculous New Stick Trick

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 11 July 2014 - 06:33 PM

It's a neat trick, but...

[cranky old man] I'd rather see him out there at the end of practice working on picking the top corner, or firing slapshots or something [/cranky old man]


which admittedly he may have been doing before or after this video.  It's just that stuff like that is cool I guess but has zero usefulness in a game, other than improving his general hand eye coordination.   I'm more impressed by a kid grinding it out after practice firing puck after puck.