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Member Since 11 Feb 2004
Offline Last Active Yesterday, 09:33 PM

#2537901 Are the wings underrated?

Posted by Jesusberg on Yesterday, 11:01 AM

Well, all I am saying is what I seen from the kids the other night just re-enforces my stand on we would not miss Franzen, Helm, Andersson,  Q or K or E one bit if they were not on this team.  And my point was with that roster if you read the entire thing, IF ALL WERE HEALTHY, I would very happy with a roster that looked like that come opening night.


I disagree with Mule and E. I don't think you replace his goal scoring, or E's defensive skills and PK ability with the kids the team has now. On the other hand, I feel like Andersson, Quincey and Kindl could all be upgraded or swapped for someone of similar value. I'm on the fence with Helm, but with all his nagging injuries and the depth the Wings have at center right now, I think they could get by without him. He's still got a lot of value, but slotting Dats, Weiss, Sheahan and Glendening down the middle works out well. Not to mention, they'll have some good bottom 6 depth at center with Larkin and Turgeon down the road.

#2537866 Babcock " I dont think it will be my final year here"

Posted by vladdy16 on 30 September 2014 - 07:08 PM


I think Pens fans would accept him.  Don't forget that the Wings hired him from Anaheim two years after he swept Detroit in the first round with a much less talented squad.  


#2537890 Are the wings underrated?

Posted by Jesusberg on Yesterday, 09:22 AM

It's a big year for Smith - it being a contract year is obvious, but moving forward it's huge for him. I think part of Babs' comments about finding a top 4 guy when discussing the defensive prospects was definitely directed at Smith. Thing is, I hope he's given a fair shake this year. Give the guy special teams minutes and let him play. You're not going to find a future top 4 in Kindl or Quincey - those two are fringe #4-5 defenders at this point, IMO.


I don't care about last year or the year before, Smith can prove what he's going to be this season. Pairing wise, I wish they'd slot him with DD and let Kindl-Quincey run around together. Much better indicator of what Smith is going to mean to the team going forward.

#2537603 Babcock " I dont think it will be my final year here"

Posted by kipwinger on 29 September 2014 - 03:49 PM


No kidding. 


My point was that people tend to overrate prospects and it's incredibly hard to predict how they will fare in the NHL, even for professionals.



Like these future Red Wings:


"He is a man amongst boys sometimes. He's not overly physical, but he takes the man and plays the body and he's got a little chip on his shoulder at times. But he's more of a skilled guy." -- Red Wings director of amateur scouting Joe McDonnell (December 2005)  "He's gotten stronger. He still needs to get a little bit stronger, but at training camp, he came close to making the team. He was definitely good enough to play and stick there. He's the kind of guy who plays better with better players. Down the road, I would think he's going to be a top-four guy. He's good on the power play and he's a real smart kid." -- McDonnell (October 2006) 



"He's got very good hockey sense, good stick skills, and he's a Red Wings type of player, the way he thinks the game. We think he's a top two line player. Like with all kids, he needs to improve his strength. He needs to work on his leg strength and get his skating a little bit stronger, but it's just the maturing of the body." -- Red Wings assistant general manager Jim Nill (June 2006) ... "His hockey sense is his best asset. He's a very smart player. He's just got to get bigger and stronger, but he's a pretty well-rounded guy." -- Red Wings director of amateur scouting Joe McDonnell (October 2006) ...



That's Kindl and Emmerton.



I hope these young guys turn into NHL d-men, I just don't think you really can tell too much until they get time with the big club. 


I get what you're saying but I think you're over simplifying a bit.  I mean, scouts lauded Emmerton and scouts lauded Nyquist.  But it would be silly to suggest that there's no telling which of the two would be a better NHLer until they get to the big club.  You could tell by their AHL careers who would be better before they ever touched the NHL.  One dominated that league, and one was average.  That's all I'm saying about these d-men.  Jakub Kindl in his best AHL season wasn't as good as Ryan Sproul just was as a rookie.  Does that guarantee that Sproul will be stud NHLer?  Absolutely not.  But it's a pretty good indication that he'll be better than Jakub Kindl.  I don't think it's fair to say "we don't know until they get there".  We know how these guys project, and we know how far along their developmental trajectories they are based on how well they're playing against their current level of competition.  So I think it's safe to draw SOME conclusions from that.  Not guarantees.  But certainly conclusions. 

#2537283 Datsyuk 2nd degree separated shoulder injury - out approx 4 weeks

Posted by F.Michael on 25 September 2014 - 01:41 PM

Let's be honest, the only reason people defend fighting is because they want to watch fights. There's no statistics on cheap shots that I'm aware of, but I suspect the frequency hasn't changed because of the instigator rule or the refs or anything like that. In fact, and this is just based on my own experience of watching hockey from the eighties on, I believe cheap shot have drastically declined.

If injuries are up, particularly ones like Datsyuk suffered, it's likely because the game is so much faster and the players so much stronger. The game is changing, because the players are getting better.

Fighting in my opinion is an just a useless distraction from the game that should be abandoned with other sport antiquities like segregated baseball teams.

Agree & disagree here...


I do enjoy watching a good scrap - especially if it's in the 'heat of the moment' where 2 opponents have been at each other for some time, and they want to get it off their chest so to speak...Another enjoyable moment is where a d-bag gets his lunch fed to him after he takes a cheap shot.


I'm honestly indifferent with the 'staged' fights...Those I can live without.


The NHLPA still want fighting to remain in the game, and in years past - many tuff guys felt their presence might have thwarted the possibility of their star players from getting roughed up (mind you there's no statistical data to back that up - just the words of former players).


If the league, and players assoc felt it was a distraction - then I'm pretty certain they'd ban fighting from the game at the NHL level...The truth is - many still enjoy the occasional scrap as evidenced when many patrons inside the arena stand when 2 or more players engage in fisticuffs.


To be honest - the older I get the more I'm indifferent (maybe because the Wings are the least likely team to get involved in any altercation on ice) - however I'd prefer a team with a few guys who can throw'em when needed instead of what we saw when Hank got his head rammed against the glass by Weber.

#2537214 Datsyuk 2nd degree separated shoulder injury - out approx 4 weeks

Posted by nawein on 24 September 2014 - 05:58 PM

I want hits, fighting just good oldschool hockey but I also want a team that sticks up for each other and some on ice police. Last season Pasha has been out with a concussion, this (early) pre-season with a seperated shoulder. Is it really that hard to understand that I want someone to keep the other team honest ?
Heck it doesn't even need to be a fight you check our star/young/small players hard we are going to do the same to you and here comes the problem...after Kronwall deleted Kronwalled from his dictionary the Wings aren't even doing that and it pisses me off. Scuderi is a big kid he can take a hard hit I admit he is very good at hitting hard and clean but that shouldn't exclude him from getting hit in the same manner too.

In that case I misunderstood what you meant. I'm all for hard hitting hockey. I love it. I live for it. I just hate the stupid revenge fights on clean plays.

#2536351 Dekeyser signed. 2 yrs $2.187 million AAV

Posted by wings87 on 16 September 2014 - 05:43 PM

Good deal, although I think a longer term might have been better. It would have let the Wings save some cap space for the future, now if he continues to progress he will probably earn 5-7 mil in 2 years after current deal is up.  


Now thinking about it the hold-up might have been Holland trying to sign DD to a longer deal at a smaller cap, and DD may have been happier with a shorter deal--which gives him the possibility to make more after this deal is up. I don't know-- I'm just happy it's done. 

#2536357 Dekeyser signed. 2 yrs $2.187 million AAV

Posted by Jesusberg on 16 September 2014 - 05:54 PM

First glance, it seemed like a bit of an underpayment to me, but when you look at the cap comparable players it makes sense. Luca Sbisa, T.J. Brodie, Chris Tanev, Dmitry Orlov... all guys are 23-24 and have that possible upside. Not necessarily the same situations, but similar age and arguably, potential. It's a good deal.

#2536310 Dekeyser signed. 2 yrs $2.187 million AAV

Posted by F.Michael on 16 September 2014 - 02:17 PM

It was definitely a small sample size with Dekeyser, but I think him being 24 years old and playing 4 years in college helps with that. He's not some 19 year old kid.  I also think his performance last season is being understated a bit.  It's in great part due to Ericsson's injury but Dekeyser was arguably the 2nd most important defenseman on the team.



Among Wings d-men:


23 points, only 5 of which came on the PP.  (2nd only to Kronwall's 49, 25 of which were on the PP)

21:38 minutes a game (2nd only to Kronwall's 24:18)

averaged 2:13 per game on the PK and 1:34 on the PP

+10 (tops among Wings defenseman)

30 PIMs (lower than everyone but Kindl, who plays significantly fewer minutes)



It is only 81 games total in the NHL, but he was thrown in the deep end as a rookie and handled himself admirably (think Kindl or Smith for examples of how else it could've gone). He played big minutes and played all roles on the ice.   The question is obviously how much will he improve, but I'd be surprised if he took any steps backwards. 

A bit off topic...


DD didn't get to spend any time with Lids - unlike Ericsson, and Kronwall - he was thrown in full speed ahead, and didn't look outta place one bit.


IMHO - he's our 2nd best Dman, and with Ericsson questionable...Well - Holland better get this kid signed.

#2536295 Regner: Next year could be Babcock's last

Posted by gcom007 on 16 September 2014 - 12:26 PM

Anyone who knows me on these boards at this point knows I'm no longer a Holland supporter, but you've got to be reaching here to be making a big deal out of this. Babcock should get paid, and will get paid, and Holland won't lowball him on money. There's no need and even he's not stupid enough to take that chance. He's just defending the line for the media. If Babcock leaves, it won't be about money. Any amount of money any team would reasonably throw at him would be matched by the Wings.

#2535949 Ericsson and Alfredsson not 100%

Posted by Jesusberg on 11 September 2014 - 10:52 AM

frankgrimes - translation - "Told you so..."


The more I think about it, the more worried I'm getting... I mean, I'm not so sure that Ericsson will be able to skate the same with his middle finger only at 95%... C'mon people, quit reaching...


And there were a lot of people that were completely okay with Alfredsson not being offered another contract this season, but now that he may not be 100% healthy, the sky is falling...


I can see the concern, though. While his skating is going to be unaffected, gotta wonder about his outlet passes/shooting. According to the article, he's having a hard time benching weight. The guy uses his strength to muscle guys around on the PK. I think it's also an issue of him getting hurt again, considering the way his finger was injured. Apparently they couldn't even put all the shards of bone back together, because they were too small. It's just worrisome.


As far as Alfie goes, you know I've been pro-Alfie throughout the entire off-season. I'm cool with the idea of keeping him around, even if he plays 60-65 games. It kind of sucks that he's having setbacks going INTO the season, though. You want him to at least start out healthy.


The sky isn't falling, but I think there's some room for concern (more on D than anything).

#2535431 Las Vegas rumored to get an expansion team

Posted by kylee on 03 September 2014 - 12:15 AM

We need relocation, not expansion.

#2535342 Expansion draft - how many players can each team protect ?

Posted by sibiriak on 01 September 2014 - 07:10 PM

That's kind of foolish. Once this next CBA is up there will be another lockout it's what the PA wants. There isn't any debating it, cause it's going to happen.

If the NHLPA wanted a work stoppage, they could strike. Lockout is, by definition, owners locking the players out.

Disclaimer: I do not wish to start any discussion of whose fault it was/is/will be. Just a word usage note.

#2535155 Lines Thread

Posted by krsmith17 on 29 August 2014 - 10:43 AM

I wasn't really sure where to put this but this place seems as good as anywhere...




Expect Dan Cleary to don his third different number for #RedWings upcoming season. The veteran has ditched 71, flipping the digits to 17.



I know a lot of people will say they wish he wasn't going to don any Red Wings jersey this upcoming season but I still love Danny and I hope he has a solid season. And I for one, couldn't stand seeing that 71 on the ice, I think he will look great with number 17 on his back.

#2535029 Fedorov and Yzerman vs. Datsyuk and Zetterberg

Posted by Uncle Danny on 27 August 2014 - 01:29 PM

Many people are pointing out differences between eras, line mates, etc, all of which is interesting for discussion.  The question, though, is which pair would you take.  For me that's #19 and #91 all day every day.  No knock on the "kids," but I'd be hard pressed to find many duos I'd take above them on any roster, let alone the Wings.


(#66 and #68 come to mind... #99 and, well, anyone also)