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Member Since 11 Feb 2004
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#2537908 Babcock quote about Jurco... Possible shot at Holland?

Posted by haroldsnepsts on Yesterday, 11:48 AM

They definitely don't always see eye to eye on the roster.  



Greg Brady: I'm fascinated by the, the entire, not just your team, but the GM-coach dynamic. How do you describe, frankly, your working relationship with Ken Holland? You're both champions of your sport, you wouldn't agree on every player's single...value, or where they should be use...Does it get interesting? Are there excited discussions, do voices get raised...It can kind of fun at the end of it, can't it?

Mike Babcock: Oh, for sure, you know, I was laughing the other day, I hadn't looked at a Hockey News in forever, and I was at my dad's place in Saskatoon, and I flip it open, and it goes to the Red Wings, and it says, "Lots of disagreement over players last year between Ken Holland and Mike Babcock," and my dad looks at me, "Isn't that every year?" and I said, "Every year, every day."

That's the process. Everybody's got your own opinion. And that's what makes you better; if you're the same, why would you hire someone the same as you?

The other thing about it is...Uncomfortable meetings, when you go to a meeting--and this is in any business--and nobody really tells anybody anything, nobody steps on anybody's toes...You leave the meeting, and everyone talks behind somebody's back.

When you go to a meeting, and you deal with the facts, in an uncomfortable situation, when you leave, everything's looked after.


I'd much rather it be that way. Ken and I have a great relationship. If we pretend for one second that we agree all the time, that's just not the case, but I can tell you this: we make each other a lot better.






This is a pretty bold comment but he's made a couple like it before.  


I think he once talked about not knowing why Ericsson was still in the AHL and not on the team.  

#2537835 Are the wings underrated?

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 30 September 2014 - 01:08 PM


Heroic?  Lol.  Babcock rode Nyquist into the playoffs.  If Nyquist had scored even 80% as much as he did, we wouldn't have made the playoffs.  Babcock did well given the roster he was forced to work with, but it wasn't heroic.  He didn't use his coaching wiles to beat obviously superior teams.  He rode a kid into the playoffs that his "heroic coaching" kept out of the lineup for 53 games.  Just remember that while deifying Babcock's coaching a year ago. 


Just to clarify a couple things, Nyquist played 57 games for the Wings last season, so he was kept out of the lineup for 25.  


More importantly, those lost games were a result of his two-way contract and Holland backing the team up to the roster limit with moves like signing Cleary, not Babcock's coaching. 

#2537599 Babcock " I dont think it will be my final year here"

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 29 September 2014 - 03:40 PM


People here say a lot of things.


No kidding. 


My point was that people tend to overrate prospects and it's incredibly hard to predict how they will fare in the NHL, even for professionals.



Like these future Red Wings:


"He is a man amongst boys sometimes. He's not overly physical, but he takes the man and plays the body and he's got a little chip on his shoulder at times. But he's more of a skilled guy." -- Red Wings director of amateur scouting Joe McDonnell (December 2005)  "He's gotten stronger. He still needs to get a little bit stronger, but at training camp, he came close to making the team. He was definitely good enough to play and stick there. He's the kind of guy who plays better with better players. Down the road, I would think he's going to be a top-four guy. He's good on the power play and he's a real smart kid." -- McDonnell (October 2006) 



"He's got very good hockey sense, good stick skills, and he's a Red Wings type of player, the way he thinks the game. We think he's a top two line player. Like with all kids, he needs to improve his strength. He needs to work on his leg strength and get his skating a little bit stronger, but it's just the maturing of the body." -- Red Wings assistant general manager Jim Nill (June 2006) ... "His hockey sense is his best asset. He's a very smart player. He's just got to get bigger and stronger, but he's a pretty well-rounded guy." -- Red Wings director of amateur scouting Joe McDonnell (October 2006) ...



That's Kindl and Emmerton.



I hope these young guys turn into NHL d-men, I just don't think you really can tell too much until they get time with the big club. 

#2537414 Datsyuk 2nd degree separated shoulder injury - out approx 4 weeks

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 26 September 2014 - 11:30 PM



If Probert was playing now (and clean, if he was doing the crap he did back then now he'd never make it) coaches wouldn't want him to fight much.  He had enough talent that they'd want him on the ice, not in the box.



And zero playoff games.  Mark Hartigan played 4 games that run.  Downey had zero influence on the Wings winning the Cup that year.


My point wasn't that Downey had a major influence on the Cup as much as it was that the Wings had an enforcer on their team not too long ago who Babcock actually put on the ice for 50+ games and the team still managed to be successful that year. 


I'm in no way saying enforcers reduce injuries or they are required to win a Cup, but that doesn't mean they're obsolete either.  




Not even regular season and we've had our first thread turn into an enforcer debate.  We're ahead of schedule.  :D

#2537409 Datsyuk 2nd degree separated shoulder injury - out approx 4 weeks

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 26 September 2014 - 08:10 PM

To clarify are we talking physical players or "meatheads"? You seem to be going back and forth.  Who wouldn't like a physical player who is solid defensively and can score a big goal on occasion.  Every team wants a few of those and there aren't that many available.  


Holland signed Tootoo, a fighter and agitator, and after injuries to nearly every regular on the team, Babcock chose to play absolutely anyone but him.  He made it pretty clear that isn't the type of player he wants on his team.  


The Wings have plenty of needs, but an "enforcer" is at the very bottom of the list.  The injuries have nothing to do with having an enforcer.

It was 17 years ago.


Not that I'm arguing that the Wings necessarily need a meathead, but the last Cup win the Wings had Aaron Downey in the lineup.  And Babcock played him in 56 games.  


It's not just an outdated concept from 17 years ago.


With Tootoo I think it was more that he could never really hit effectively without taking himself well out of position.  And as admirable as it was that he'd drop the gloves with anyone, he hardly struck fear in the hearts of anyone except when he suckerpunched them.  Most of what he did on the Wings was staged fights.

#2536368 Dekeyser signed. 2 yrs $2.187 million AAV

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 16 September 2014 - 06:54 PM

Yes it is.
Any player who plays better gets better deals.... duh
Signing DD to this term at this price is GREAT. Complaining about his possible next deal, when he hasn't even played one game under this deal, already, is just digging for something to be mad about.
Couple that with the ridiculous "Holland's a low-baller" speak going around, and yeah it's annoying.


No, it really isn't.  If that's what you consider complaining, no wonder you think everyone here was doing it.  It was an offhanded comment in a post.  Other people were speculating that Dekeyser's camp was holding up negotiations but that wasn't complaining to you.


And do you think you're improving the nature of discourse here with your sarcasm and condescension?


Let me make this clear to everyone here for the millionth time. 


If you don't like a post about someone criticizing the Wings and feel compelled to respond, politely refute the points they are making.  DO NOT insult or attack them personally.   If you are unable to respond without doing  that, simply ignore the post or put that member on ignore so you won't see any of their posts. 


Like it or not, criticism and complaining can be on topic.  However, complaining about complaining or insulting how someone posts is never on topic.  Ever.  Posts that are complaints about other posts will be deleted.  If the mods repeatedly have to delete posts by the same member, that person will be suspended.


If you think LGW has gotten too negative, complaining about it only adds to the negativity.   Instead try making a thoughtful and constructive post about hockey that makes the site a little better.

#2536360 Dekeyser signed. 2 yrs $2.187 million AAV

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 16 September 2014 - 06:02 PM


Possible future complaining? It already started with the "He's gonna demand a ton after this deal"


What post are you referring to?


And that really is a complaint to you?   If Dekeyser develops in the next couple years then he will very likely get a big payday next time.  It's off-handed speculation that's based on history.  It's the nature of bridge deals.






#2536314 Dekeyser signed. 2 yrs $2.187 million AAV

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 16 September 2014 - 02:58 PM


Holland has shown a history of paying for potential (See: Kronwall, Filpulla) with hopes that the player grows into the contract. This is a fact.  


Obviously the Holland haters are hoping that Kenny offered him 100 dollars/year so that they can be even angrier at the man.


But the truth of the matter is, DD's agent is most likely asking for 4M/per.


Like I said, with Holland's mostly spotless history of dealing with RFAs, ypu have to think that the friction is coming from the DeKeyser camp.


You take a potshot at Holland haters but follow it with your own completely unfounded comment about Dekeyser asking for $4 mill a year.


Unless you have a source for that?


For all we know after the mistake he made with Kindl's contract, Holland could be playing it more conservatively with RFA D-men.


The actual truth of the matter is we have no idea what's going on with Dekeyser's contract negotiations.  It's between Holland and his agent.  


What I do know is that Dekeyser has quickly become a crucial part of the Wings defense and I sure hope they get him signed ASAP.

#2536000 Dekeyser signed. 2 yrs $2.187 million AAV

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 11 September 2014 - 05:26 PM


Problem is, you're going to pay Kindl one way or another and waiving him only gets you minimal cap relief.  It's not a situation like Samuelsson where you waive him and only have to pay for the remainder of the season.  In Kindl's case you'd be paying for 3 more years. 


Best case scenario you start him on the third pair, and second PP.  Hopefully he can produce (initially) at the pace he did a couple years ago and he'll have some trade value.  Right now he's got no trade value and he's too expensive to demote. 


Good point.  I always forget the cap space rules when you waive a player.  And a trade seems unlikely unless he's packaged with a valuable player. 



I completely agree that Quincey gets way more flack than he deserves on this board. He is a solid defenseman, he is just often times confused with the offensive game he showed in LA and Colorado, which he is not.


I'm not in any way, shape or form trying to defend Kindl. I want him off this roster as much as the next guy but what people tend to forget is that he is still relatively young in terms of Red Wing defenseman standards. He is 27 years old, 3 years younger than Ericsson. Does anyone remember the outrage on this board three years ago when Ericsson signed that new contract? There is still plenty of room for Kindl to grow, I just think he is running out of time. There are plenty of hungry kids that will pass him on the depth chart within the next couple seasons.


Also, I wouldn't say he has NO trade value at this point. I do think his value to other teams may be very minimal, but I do believe he could garner at least a mid to late round draft pick.


I personally think he's already out of time.  With 230 or so NHL games under his belt, I just don't see him improving much.  He's been battling for a bottom pairing spot all of his career.  With his skill set and size, he should've established himself by now. 


It's what makes Kindl so annoying for me.  Kindl is as big or bigger than everyone on the Wings except Ericsson and Franzen, but he plays like he's Rafalski sized and will bail on making a play to avoid getting hit. 

#2535997 Ericsson and Alfredsson not 100%

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 11 September 2014 - 05:17 PM

Less talk about this forum and people whining.  More talk about the actual topic please. 

#2535821 Wings re-sign Cleary $1.5 mill + $1mill in game bonuses

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 09 September 2014 - 08:39 PM


From the article: General manager Ken Holland kept a promise he made to Cleary during last year's training camp by re-signing him, a move met with overwhelming disapproval by the fan base. But Holland and coach Mike Babcock are big supporters of Cleary.



I have to say, I find it interesting how so many people s*** all over Holland for the Cleary signing, but you never hear a bad thing about Babcock when its pretty evident that Babcock wanted the signing as well.


Dont get me wrong, I wish Holland never made Cleary the promise he did last year, but it is what it is.


Really?  Multiple times in many threads people have placed most of the blame on Babcock, saying he fought for Cleary to be here.  


Babcock is obviously a fan.  Cleary is fearless and goes to the net like few players on the Wings do.  Multiple times it's been cited that Babcock, the players, and Holland wanted Cleary back.  But Holland is the one ultimately responsible for the roster. 


Also, please don't circumvent the profanity filter.

#2535374 potential team names for las vegas!

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 02 September 2014 - 11:54 AM

They should probably pick the name based on the most likely Canadian market the team will move to after being a financial disaster for years. 

#2535190 potential team names for las vegas!

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 29 August 2014 - 03:59 PM

The Las Vegas Regrets™

#2534635 Trial date set in Steve Moore’s lawsuit against Todd Bertuzzi

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 20 August 2014 - 03:22 PM

I feel like they made them believe that a deal was in place so they could spin it to the media that it's all a lie and Steve is too fragile to handle the media. Seems all too convenient to me. Probably a tactic to squeeze more out of them.


Well, there's zero evidence of that.  If we're spinning completely baseless scenarios then it's equally likely that Bertuzzi's lawyers falsely said they had a settlement in order to make Moore's camp look like the bad guys for keeping this from being resolved. 


The reality is, no one knows what is actually going on in this circus.  But man the NHL should've made this go away long ago.  

#2534586 Candiens, P.K. Subban agree to 8 year contract

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 19 August 2014 - 07:43 PM

@theScore: Kovalev is unsure why P.K. Subban is worth $72M: 'He plays like he did on streets as a child.' http://t.co/GoV5aINrNn http://t.co/AFKZPl1Rq8



It's pretty hilarious that Kovalev of all people would call out a player.  Especially the part about scoring 5 goals but allowing 5 goals.  Maybe check your career +/- there Alex.  The guy embodied the lazy Russian stereotype when he played.  


I guess he's not been getting enough attention lately?