Honestly, I have no problem with fights after clean hits. I understand why someone wouldn't want their star players getting hit with big hits, whether it was legal or not. If someone nailed Datsyuk with a clean hit, I'd want someone to step in and make others think twice about doing that.
As long as fighting is legal, so is fighting from clean hits. Then again, I also want the instigator removed, so I can see how you'd be even more upset if that were done.
Oh, and I forgot what a terrible fighter Stuart is.
huh? I want the instigator penalty removed. I like fighting in hockey.
But I've been watching long enough to remember a time when guys took a number after a hard hit to get the guy later in the game. They knew it was part of the game and they're all big boys. People act like somehow mugging guys after they hit someone is a tough code, but it's the opposite. Like the guy getting hit is a delicate flowers who can't handle hockey so their teammates have to suckerpunch the guy who hit them.
Part of the idea of hitting is to separate the guy from the puck to gain an advantage. Even if you knock a guy silly and he's stunned for a minute, that's an advantage. The muggings that go on after clean hits stop the game and erase that advantage.
Stevie was protected by Probert and Kocur, but even they would get guys later in the game. It was rare they'd jump someone right at that moment for running Yzerman. Then again, Yzerman had his head up enough to avoid a lot of the big hits.
And fighting isn't legal. It's why you get a penalty for it.
You're using Holland's success against him. Making successful transitions in the past doesn't mean that those transitions are so easy that we should always be successful at them.
We've lost three top-4 defensemen in two years. In that time, there has been ONE top-pair defenseman to hit UFA, and only a few other UFAs or affordable trades that are any better than what we have, and I'm not sure that any of them are so much better that it would really make any difference.
Let's see the list of GMs that have gone through something like that without a hitch. It's so easy there must be dozens. Just give me 5 off the top of your head...
You make it sound as if Holland had no idea these defensemen were leaving until they were emptying their locker.
I'm not saying it should all go without a hitch but look at our defensive corps. Holland had lead time on 2 of the 3. Anyone with half a brain could've figured there's a good chance Lids would retire around 40. And Holland even got to talk to him so I bet he had a pretty good guess as to when Lids would hang them up. Same with Stuart. That situation was known to all of us here. And it wouldn't surprise me if Rafalski gave him some indication as well.
Holland should've been considering the defense in a post Lidstrom era years ago.
It just reinforces my belief that Holland is a good tinkerer and has succeeded by making tweaks to the team and system he inherited, but as the quality of his replacements continued dropping the system has become less and less effective. Yet there doesn't seem to be any new system or thinking with the type of players he brings in. It just felt like more patchwork to the same old system in spite of so many lesser replacement parts.
I took it to mean, Franzen is most comfortable (and performs best) when he's not the #1 Guy.
Hossa is a known, and was a known at that point. He's one of the most consistent players in the league as far as production is concerned (and I'd also say as far as all-around commitment goes). Like I've said, maybe not a lamp-lighting force in the playoffs - but Franzen is? Put another way: "Hossa is a great regular season player but a playoff no-show" - take away Franzen's '08 run, and the statement's a pretty good fit for him as well. The guy plays like a big-bodied Brett Hull, minus the stuff that made Hull an elite asset.
Hossa >>> Franzen. Kenny got the wrong guy. I know, hindsight blah blah blah. But, again, Hossa was a known. Franzen was still very much a question mark. Has he done anything since the signing to really make you say to yourself, "Thank GOD Kenny picked Franzen." You could say, "He scores 25-30 goals for us every season." So then why get on Hossa's case about disappearing in the playoffs and only being valuable in the regular season?
And then there's the contract. That big blessed albatross.
And people overstate Hossa's playoff no show, I'm guessing based on the one season he was in Detroit.
He has 97 points in 137 playoff games. Looking through his playoff performances he's hardly a no-show. And it's not exactly apples to apples to compare that to Franzen's three great playoff years.
Hopefully for the Wings it was the last two playoffs that were a fluke for Mule and not the 3 before it.
As I said before, for years the Wings made up for their lack of size and could beat a strong forecheck by superior skill. But that skill has been declining season after season so their ability to beat it through puck possession and outlet passes has gone away season after season as well. Lids retiring was certainly the biggest hit to that puck possession style.
I am not panicking yet, but I can share some of my concerns about last night's game.
1. It looked like an AHL team vs. an NHL team last night - it was that bad. I don't think I've seen the Wings play a worse 60 minutes of hockey in recent memory. It wasn't like we got unlucky or couldn't cash in on chances - the Wings had no legitimate scoring chances.
2. I didn't see a single useful pass from our D to the forwards. Quincey in particular looked bad.
3. Franzen - who I am usually a big fan of - was non-existent. He looked like he was skating through mud. Same goes for Sammy.
4. Special teams = scary bad. Is Tom Renney running them? I've lost all faith in Renney's abilities after watching the debacle in Edmonton over the last few years. They've got to fix that.
BUT, that was only game 1, and it was against a clearly amped-up St. Louis team. I have no doubt it will get better, I just hope it happens quickly. Also, I liked the way Brunner looked, and I liked Tootoo's speed and energy (I wish he made contact with Tarasenko on that hit attempt). Tootoo, Helm, and Miller would be a fast line.
BTW, thoughts on Howard? I actually didn't think he deserved to get pulled - I assume it was more of a mercy move by Babcock.
I think it was definitely a mercy move by Babs and in no way a reflection of Jimmy's play. He was getting shelled out there.
It would've been nice if he had stopped one of the breakaways but I don't really fault him. All in all he played well considering he got no help.
Z and Dats were held without a shot. Datsyuk was uncharacteristically lazy around his own net a couple times. And Mule had one shot but was mostly invisible except for his fake tough guy act.
It is only one game, but when fans are wondering how this team will look in the post-Lidstrom era, this is a nightmare first glimpse.