It's gotten to the point where some of this has to fall on Nick Lidstrom's shoulders; he is the Captain, he is the leader, yet this ship looks rudderless and heartless.
There; I said it.
I disagree. And not just because Nick is some hockey god (though I'm pretty certain he actually is). the same was said about Yzerman before the Cup in '97, but a captain can only do so much. Like Yzerman, Nick plays his heart out every game. This last game against the Wild he was really jumping into the play and scored the one friggin goal that game from the slot. Where some forwards should actually have been. And he called for the puck there, like one of our star forwards should have. AND he had a couple great chances jumping into the play practically as a winger. So on top of playing Norris level defense, he's also trying to jumpstart the offense and pick up some of the slack from Rafalski's absence (do people still think Raf was overpaid??).
Nick has adjusted his game to try and help out this flaccid offense. At 41 years old he's playing almost 25 minutes a game. The goal was to get his minutes down, but this team is such a s*** sandwich that he's playing more than he should.
How much more can he do? The Wings don't need an inspirational speech from Nick, most of them need to grow some friggin balls and fear for their jobs and go to the net.
And in the spirit of the thread F*ck you Franzen. the problem runs a lot deeper than you, but no 6'3" 225 lbs forward with as much talent as you have should be as friggin invisible as you've been, or registered as few SOG's.
Is your nickname Mule because you're so stubborn when it comes to doing hard work?
Everybody caffeine up! We're playing the Wild tonight.
We should start a pool on when they go into the 1-2-2. Just after the opening faceoff?
Hopefully the Wings can come out with energy and toughness in spite of the Wild's style of play, which sucks the life out of most hockey games....
And for chrissakes, go hard to the net!!
Go get 'em Nyquist! Show these spoiled veterans how it's done (I'm looking at you Franzen).
And the Jiri Hudler watch continues. How many times have they been down this road with him?
I'm not going to predict anything because they really should have won at least one of the last four (Minny, Columbus were winnable). But if there is a loss here, they're going to have do to a bit more to change things up than scratch the whipping boy.
Hmm, Hudler in the press box?
After not getting a shot on goal in four games, I'm shocked he didn't get put on the top line like some had predicted.
I like Huds overall, but his quotes about being benched were a little annoying. Yes, we get that you're a playmaker, but shouldn't it be clear to you by now the Wings want you to shoot the f-ing puck more??
What's interesting, is that at no point in that post, or any post in this thread, did I say that criticism wasn't allowed.
But please, continue asserting opinions I myself have not asserted.
It tickles me.
I never implied you said "criticism isn't allowed." It's the actions of you and the larger clique that try to shut down criticism by flaming anyone who makes posts that you don't like.
Honestly I don't even think you're one of the big offenders, but you did say the team needs better fans, fans that don't overreact at the drop of af****** hat and told people to calm down, then listed all the things that wouldn't help as if they were fact. Not a huge leap to interpret that as you wishing the suggestions and criticism that's going on lately would stop.
There's getting to be more posts here lecturing people about calming down or how they need to be real fans than there is actual talk about the game lately.
Better fans. You know, fans that won't overreact at the drop of af****** hat. We lost three in a row. That sucks. We should be playing better. Our defense needs to be shored up, our goaltending needs to be tighter. Key players need to start producing.
None of those things will happen with a trade. All of those things will happen when players currently on the roster pull their heads out of their butts. We don't need enforcers, goons, instigators, or fighters......we don't need a new goalie, a new coach, or an entirely new top line. What we need is for people to CALM DOWN and stop acting like because we're under-performing in October, we'll be getting swept out of the playoffs come April, if we're lucky enough to even make them. There is more than enough time for the Red Wings to start playing like they did during the first five games, and less like they have during the last three. I'm confident our ship will right itself.
You know what this site needs? People to stop telling us how to be fans.
Perhaps you and Crymson would like to start a Red Wings pep rally site, where it's all rainbows and puppy dogs and never a discouraging word is uttered about the Red Wings. Here you are not a mod, not that criticizing the Wings is actually against forum rules anyway. Speaking for myself, I'm a die hard Red Wings fan, as in fanatic. I've been a fan since the early 80s, when this team flat out sucked. I'm far from a spoiled Wings fan. I love hockey. I love the Wings. I get ticked when they lose. I'd like to discuss it, even if it's critical of the Wings, without someone telling me I'm not a real fan or to calm down.
That's great that you're confident the ship will right itself, that doesn't mean that any dissenting opinions should be flamed by the clique here that doesn't condone any criticism of the wings.
"The Wings win five in a row? Why, we expect that of them. Why appreciate it? Now, the Wings lost three in a row? Unacceptable! Blow up the team!"
Who exactly are you quoting? No one here said that.
You're just baiting people and spamming the thread.
You may be sick of all the negativity here, but the thing is, you're the most negative person here by a country mile. Read through your posts sometime. In most of them you mock, condescend, judge, and try to shut down the ideas of anyone you don't agree with.
The problem that I have is that it isn't hockey talk. Its a ***** fest. I am upset about the Wings not doing well. At the same time though, I point out where they were deficient and how they can improve next game. The "hockey talk" that you mention is not hockey talk. It takes more effort to actually dissect a game and look at the keys in a game. It takes less effort to yell, "Fire Babcock" or "Homer is worthless". Guess which route many of the LGW forum members take? In the end, when they do take that route, it makes those members look like a bunch of whining entitled brats.
Otherwise, I agree with your assessment on the three losses. Its too early to tell. At the same time, the score was not indicative of how the game was played. Wings dominated in faceoffs and time of possession. Shots were about even. The Wings breakout was ok and their passing was average. In essence, they got beat by one goal.
I agree that there's a relatively small percentage of people venting from a loss with things like the "Wings f-ing suck!" But honestly it's much better than it used to be, and there's plenty of hockey talk here that gets bashed and shut down just because it's not popular or it's critical of the Wings.
Even if someone proposes a radical move, like trade Cleary, hell even trade Datsyuk, that's a legitimate hockey opinion and worth discussing, no matter how much the idea of trading those guys may offend Wings fans. Demoting someone, even Zetterberg to the 4th line is hockey talk. They may be outlandish and even foolish ideas, but they're legitimate opinions.
People who are generating topics to discuss are the lifeblood of this site. They're not all going to be brilliant, but I'll take them any day over the members (who are not mods) who've made themselves judges of what is and is not acceptable to say about the Red Wings. The people here who spend most of their time shutting down the ideas of other members and mocking them for their suggestions with posts like "OMG WINGS SUCK TRADE EVERYONE!!!"
If the Wings have only lost three games but someone wants to suggest radical changes, they should be able to do so without being bombarded by all the sarcastic, ******* responses from the Thought Police here.
LOL. Typical. We're eight games into the season, and now Cleary sucks? Never mind that he was one of the team's best players last season. Never mind that he's a consistent all-around player. He hasn't been playing well over the last three weeks? HE SUCKS! TRADE HIM!
He never said Cleary sucks. He said Cleary hasn't looked good in a while, but I guess it's easier to mock him when you put words in his mouth.
And all the qualities you listed about Cleary are what would make him valuable trade material. Due to his fearless style of play, he is injury prone and at 32 years old probably doesn't have a lot of years left in him. I wouldn't want to get rid of him, but it's not outrageous to at least discuss trading him.
In the past people would make ridiculous trade suggestions, trying to dump the Wings garbage in return for other team's quality players. Now he gets s*** for suggesting trading someone who might actually have value to another team?
38 goals, 68 assists, and 98 points and counting in the NHL.
2 Stanley Cup championships.
What have you done lately?
Hmm, I guess when you put it that way, I don't have anything that can compare to that. So it's probably a good thing I'm not making $3+ million a year in the NHL.
And you left off a couple stats. 98 points in 347 NHL games and a career -22. Plus minus is a somewhat weak stat, but last year on the Hawks he was a -13 with the next closest player being Nick Leddy at -3, the net closest forward was Brower at -2. The top forward being Toews at +28. When your +/- is that far down the s***ter on your team, it probably does indicate something.
For the record I don't hate Kopecky. I'm just baffled by the fortunate opportunities he keeps getting based on his career to date. Maybe he'll live up to that contract. Who knows.
Is anyone saying the Wings put a sufficient effort in the Columbus game?
The entire premise of the OP was that drastic steps need to be taken NOW based on the performance of the Red Wings in their last two losses. Nobody is saying Babcock should be okay with the Wings performance. It is his job to worry about the little things and tweak and tweak until he gets things right. Our job is to enjoy the ride and discuss what is going on. Based on what I've seen I don't see why we should be taking drastic steps when we don't have a strong grasp on the current team yet. Why rush and make a move when it could make things worse in the long run?
I don't know where you get that the entire premise of his post was based on the two losses. He clearly refers to the problem going back 2 to 3 years. These two losses just highlighted that problem.
The most radical action he mentions in the post is scratching Bert and Z.
For the record, I agree with you in that I don't think radical action is called for at this point. But how long did it take to actually say that instead of people just saying things about how he's a bad fan or pointing out that we're 5 and 2? People claim he's being reactionary to the losses, but at the same time they're being reactionary to his post (because he committed the sin of criticizing the Wings) without even actually addressing what I think is a legitimate point he raises, even if I don't agree with his proposed solution.
And because the Wings are so successful, I think practically every point made in this forum during the season is with an eye looking to the postseason. Looking to see what has changed or what needs to change that will get them deeper into the playoffs. Of course as fans we're happy that they're not a s*** team. But we want them to beat those flopping fish in San Jose.
We have one of the most capable rosters in the whole league that can deliver in each and every game and all we get is clear lack of effort. I'm getting tired of all these after game quotes "We though we were prepared", "We just got beat, 7-1, so to start like that tonight, to me, is lack of preparation," "It was a disappointing effort. The coaching staff didn't do a good enough job; the players didn't do a good enough job."
We've heard such things so many times during the last two/three years. Where are the consequences? I think the real reason is that everyone on the roster feel too safe. They known that no matter how bad they play they'll never be traded. Starting from 4th line plug Miller to "superstar" Zetterberg. When intensity of the game is rather low we often win on a pure skill, when it gets higher like in the last two games we simply give up. To me this is pure lack of effort. If Bertuzzi or Zetterberg don't like to compete in games like this scratch them and call up Nyquist or Tatar.
PS For those saying that it is only two games (there are always a plenty of such guys) I recommend to watch some other teams. No team in this league gives up games so easily.
Nobody is saying "Playing without effort is okay." People are simply saying "Whoa, don't freak out over the roster yet. It's been two games over an 82 game season. Let's see how they do for a bit before hitting the panic button."
It's sad that people can't understand the difference.
At the same time, people seem to think questioning lack of effort means the OP is saying "being 5 and 2 sucks!"
His original post was mostly about lack of effort. Yet most of the responses were essentially "we're 5-2. Shut the F up!" and basically ignoring what I think is a relevant point regardless of their record. Made even more relevant based on Babcock's reaction to last night's game.
It seems like most people reacted to the post title (which was probably poorly chosen) and not the content of his actual post.