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#2331817 Sacrifice the full season to guarantee Bettman's removal?

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 16 October 2012 - 06:37 PM

So looks like a deal will get done, how many of those 53 that voted yes, would still vote yes now?

Well if a deal is getting done, obviously not many. Most people said if they're gonna lose the season anyway, it'd be nice to get rid of Bettman too.

But we can take a poll again when he locks the players out at the end of this coming CBA.

#2331742 [Retired] Official Lockout Thread

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 16 October 2012 - 12:25 PM

That is nothing but good news. To me, that sounds like they're backing off their asinine requirements on ELC's and prevention of salary arbitration.

Fehr has called a conference call with the NHLPA's Negotiating Committee and the Executive Committee for 5PM ET.


It depends on what they're doing to HRR at the same time but this sounds like a very realistic offer from the NHL. Finally.

Details are sketchy but Dreger and McKenzie are making it sound like the players full contracts will be honored, it's just going to be paid out over longer time. Without that sort of protection by McKenzie's figuring the NHLPA is going to have to swallow an 11% decrease in salary.

And as you mention, hopefully the NHL has moved off its idiotic contract demands as well.

This sounds very promising.

#2331658 Sacrifice the full season to guarantee Bettman's removal?

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 15 October 2012 - 04:03 PM

it just shows you how well the PA has played the pr battle

I'm basing it more on the sum total of his career than any PR attempts by Fehr.

3 CBA negotiations. 3 lockouts.

1st major North American pro sport to lose a season due to a labor dispute. Other leagues have similar issues and problems but have managed to solve them without losing an entire season.

1,780 games lost to lockout under his watch and counting. That is by far more than any of the big pro sports.

How is that not a failure? The NHL commissioner is not just a shill for ownership, part of his job is to protect the integrity and public confidence in the league. The commissioners of other leagues have to deal with owners just like Bettman does.

7 years after losing an entire season to implement a hard cap, with an increase in revenue of 50% since the last CBA, there's no way there should be a lockout right now. Bettman and his hardliners want too much too fast. And unlike in 1995, the owners aren't going to be able to overrule him and salvage the season.

#2331488 Sacrifice the full season to guarantee Bettman's removal?

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 13 October 2012 - 09:53 AM

There's really no getting around that three lockouts in a row, one (and maybe more) costing the entire season is terrible league management.

As others have said, there's a fair chance we'll lose this season. Might as well make it worth it.

#2331302 Our friend @HockeyyInsiderr lists anti-lockout teams...

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 11 October 2012 - 11:34 AM

Do you have a link or source to this? I would like to see for myself what Bettman changed back in 95 and where they stand today. I did a google search on this and didn't find anything on it.

I had read it in a few places years ago but here's the most recent reminder.

To make sure the disunity of 1994-95 did not happen again, Bettman engineered a change in the voting rules: if he was against a settlement, he could be overruled only by a vote of three-quarters of the owners. And he was given the power to fine any owner or team official as much as $1 million for divulging internal league matters.


Everything I've read credits Bettman for the change but ultimately I think the Board of governors has to approve it. I haven't found much info about how that process works exactly.

And here:


There is legislation – he introduced a rule that allows him to reject a collective agreement proposal from the NHLPA with only eight votes from the 30 owners. Firing Bettman would require three-quarters of the owners to approve, something he negotiated when he took the job.
Bettman also made sure most of the other owners owed him enough, by naming them to the powerful governors’ executive committee or shepherding their attempts to buy a team or letting them bend the rules, that they will not cause any trouble. Finally, he makes sure he is aligned with the two most powerful owners, Jeremy Jacobs of the Boston Bruins, the chairman of the board of governors, and Ed Snider of the Philadelphia Flyers.
It is an adept way to handle people who are essentially your bosses and who are not accustomed to being told how to operate their business since many of them built successful companies before buying hockey teams.

The part I bolded is especially depressing.

#2331231 Z basically says Bettman should be fired

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 10 October 2012 - 05:27 PM

Boyle should have kept his mouth shut. Even if he was privy to some inside information (Which he probably isnt) does he honestly beleive there arent players out there who just want to play and arent in favor of asking for the moon? I am willing to bet my life savings (Granted it isnt much) that there is a MUCH higher percentage of players who just want to play then there are owners who do. This is why the players will cave first and revenue will probably end up being split some where close to 50 -50. Like every other sports league.

The best thing the owners have done is not say anything. Every single time a player opens his mouth in the press it ends up sounding selfish, immature and just plain stupid.

Every other sports league?

Look at baseball's salary situation. And the NBA may have a close to 50% split but they also have a luxury tax system the NHL doesn't. And a lot more revenue sharing among franchises. As does the NFL.

It's not really fair to just take the percentage while ignoring all the other differences between the leagues.

Just by sheer number, I'm sure you're right about there being more players wanting to play than the 29 owners. And like I mentioned in another thread, Bettman only needs 7 to keep from being overruled so it doesn't even matter if the majority of owners wanted to end the lockout.

#2331219 Our friend @HockeyyInsiderr lists anti-lockout teams...

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 10 October 2012 - 03:27 PM

Even if that is true, they still need 18 more teams to overrule him.

Because of how Bettman got the rules changed after he as overruled in '95, there's practically no chance of the owners seizing control from him. He only needs to keep 8 happy.

#2331216 Russians Possibly Staying In KHL After Lockout

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 10 October 2012 - 03:00 PM

I disagree. I think they have TONS of marketable players, but they just chose the obvious ones. Think if Biznasty was marketed like OV. I think he has a better personality. I don't know why Russians come off as so selfish to me and seem egotistical.

I don't know either. Are you basing it on only a few Russians?

Because the Wings currently have a Russian player that is the antithesis of that. And they have had several in the past as well. Larionov, Fetisov, Vladdy, Kozlov.

#2331124 [Retired] Official Lockout Thread

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 09 October 2012 - 05:31 PM

Bettman and Fehr have combined to cause a lockout or strike that has resulted in missing their respective championship playoff series 1 each. Not 3.

What could I possibly have been referring to when I said Bettman has done this three times?

Anyone? Any guesses?

#2330939 [Retired] Official Lockout Thread

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 08 October 2012 - 10:08 AM

We should all support dissolving the players union. When that is done, we will never have to worry about another lockout. If players don't like the terms the NHL owners offer, they can play elsewhere. If the best players are choosing to play outside of the NHL, the owners can choose to offer better contracts to entice them to play in the NHL. Free market economics... it works amazingly well.

In the long run, it is market competition that ensures fair wages and treatment... not unions.

Free market competition would mean no salary cap.

The players aren't striking for more money. The owners are refusing to let them play even though they have current valid contracts in the NHL.

The league had market competition before the cap and the owners apparently couldn't manage to run their business under that construct. It's not like the players were striking because they felt they were underpaid. The owners locked them out to implement a device that artificially suppresses employee salaries.

Once again, the big problem is the disparity in the wealth of the clubs. The rich clubs are what's driving up the players salaries, not unions. It was just a couple months ago that the Flyers put together an offer sheet for Weber that was specifically constructed to try and financially cripple Nashville so they wouldn't be able to match.

But that's somehow the unions fault?

#2330680 ESPN-KHL Deal in the Works?

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 04 October 2012 - 01:47 PM

Yeah I realize that now. I thought he was playing for Ak Bars again.
I actually just watched today's game CSKA against Spartak. CSKA won 2-1 in OT. Datsyuk scored a nice one intercepting a defenseman's pass, going in one on one on the goalie (who played deep in the net and didn't challenge Pav fearing the datsyukian dekes) and sniped a wrister to give CSKA a 1-0 lead in the second. He also scored the game winner in OT on a goal mouth scramble quickly pouncing on a Radulov rebound and putting it home

It's depressing me hearing about Datsyuk playing.

He's 34 years old and doesn't have a lot of seasons left, certainly not at top level. Every game missed is a big deal at this point in his career.

#2330479 [Retired] Official Lockout Thread

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 02 October 2012 - 12:22 PM

Wow, they met a whole two hours? They must be exhausted.

I think what Daly means by compromise is "agree to our ridiculous demands."

Again, it looks like the union should have used removal of the salary cap as a starting point so they could "compromise" to where they're at now, which is a reasonable place from which to negotiate.

It's a waiting game to see who breaks first. Start canceling the regular season.

#2330442 Project Unfollow-Hear the Fan's Voice

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 01 October 2012 - 06:16 PM

I like where your heads at, but there is no way I am unfollowing any of them. I like to hear what's going on and unfollowing all the players, agents, and gm's would do me no good.

I think you could still get a good handle on what's going on by just following guys like Dreger and McKenzie.

It sounds like there's an existing twitter account that's basically trying to do the same thing.


#2330115 [Retired] Official Lockout Thread

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 26 September 2012 - 02:02 PM

No, it still works. It's just a select group of 30 cattle ranchers that have Kobe cows. There are other ranches with angus cows, longhorns, etc, but in order to get a Kobe ranch, you have to be approved by the other ranchers. They can't have you going insane, selling your cows for pennies on the dollar, or making changes to the breed that will hurt the other ranchers.

Right. Because 20,000 people travel for miles and pay hundreds of dollars to watch cows graze several times a week. Buy cow outfits to wear with the brand of their favorite cow on the side. Watch cows grazing on television for hours on end.

Totally a solid analogy.

And if ranchers did that it would be collusion. The NHL is a pretty specific situation.

#2329967 [Retired] Official Lockout Thread

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 25 September 2012 - 12:15 AM

At this point, the players and the owners just need to let the league die. The owners are acting like entitled brats while the players are not willing to give any ground. Seriously, screw this league and the greed. I already promised myself the only money the league is going to see from me for the next 5-6 years will be what I watch on TV. No more center ice. No more hockey tickets. No more merchandise. I will end up saving about $1500-$2000 a hockey season by not spending a dime on these greedy screwballs. If thats the only way to make them listen, then I will do my part to get their full attention.

The players gave ground with every proposal they've made. As has been pointed out multiple times, they're not asking for anything more. They just want to lose less.

If we're trying to meet in the middle and you start by backing up 100 yards, it doesn't really matter if we both take 3 steps forward.