You can be pretty certain that he's probably averaged at least one crosscheck per game in his career too, so imagine over a thousand crosschecks to your back.
The guy's a warrior. The Wings have scored a lot of goals because of his presence in front of the net, even if he doesn't end up with an assist. There isn't a stat column for screening goalie with your ass.
I agree. I think I am just trying to squash the "Franzen can't hold a candle to Perry" argument. They are both about equal all things considered. Perry has youth while Franzen has a track record of performance.
Actually Id' say Perry has the better track record of performance. Mule has two ridiculously explosive goal scoring years in the postseason and another overall good performance.
Perry has a 98 point season with 50 goals, two 70+ point seasons. Mule's regular season high is 34 goals and 59 points (which he'll likely break this season). Then factor in that Perry is on a crappy Ducks team the last couple seasons. The main reason they made the playoffs was his second half of the year.
I hate Perry when the Wings play against him, but if you're talking about a one for one swap, I'd take him over Mule. The Wings are better and harder to play against with him, and he's a RH shot to boot.
Neither set of stats is very useful as is. Stats from 2008 and beyond are most representative of the type of player Franzen is now. For three consecutive playoff years Franzen was PPG or better in the playoffs; last year he was hurt. He is certainly a more effective playoff scorer than regular season guy.
But you could say the same about Perry. He's a much better player now than he was as a 22 year old.
Players have been giving Lidstrom that respect for a while. I think it comes from three places: 1) he's a living legend and he's treated accordingly (whether consciously or not) by the players and refs, 2) he doesn't drill other players or really develop any kind of physical antagonistic relationship and 3) Lidstrom has a history of slipping checks and making the other guy look silly. A check that you're not likely to actually land is worse than no check at all.
Like you said: a guy like Kronwall will always get hit harder by the other team than a guy who plays the game as elegantly as Lidstrom.
Gretzky was treated the same way by the end of his career. Lidstrom's a guy people mention in the same breath as Orr. And really, it's hard to make an argument for any defenseman other than Orr being as singularly dominant as Lidstom has been in his era. Guys like Bourque and Coffey had peers, Lidstrom and Orr never did.
Not if you visit hfboards. People there will grudgingly put Lids as #5, at best, and always behind Bourque. It's kind of comical.
5th in TOI for forwards with over 16 minutes a game. Plays on the PK and the PP and isn't afraid to go anywhere on the ice. 6th on the team with 11 goals. 8th on the team with 27 points and is a +12. He was on pace for about his usual 40 points.
People may be unhappy with his play, but anytime you lose a guy who plays 16 minutes a night in all situations and get you 40 points, it's a significant loss. Hopefully he gets the knee drained and comes back healthy.
I'm guessing it's partly that, but I think it's also that Lidstrom constantly has his head up, so he's really hard to get a good hit on.
It's seriously ridiculous how little he looks down at the puck. Next game just watch Lids. He's almost never looking down, whether he's skating up ice with the puck, making a pass, or taking a shot. I'm not sure he even knows what his skates look like.
Let me explain my reason for saying we were cheated in 09. I am not just a slappy that can't admit when another team is better. I am too lazy to go back and tell you what games this happened so I will just point out the facts. Malkin gets an instigator penalty in the last 5 minutes of game 2? Should have been by the rules automatic one game suspension. Was it? Hell no!!!! At least the NBA holds to its rules of If you leave the bench during a fight automatic suspension. It seems as if Bettman's rules only apply if it will help the team he wants to win.
Pittsburg with an extra man on the ice for a full minute. ( I forgot which game this was) was it called no!!!!
Finally if you remember Detroit wrapped up their wcf series early and the Stanley cup finals were slated to start a week later per the Nhl schedule. However, Bettman knowing the Wings were banged up, started the series a WEEK before they were slated to start.
What happened eventually? yes the Wings ran out of gas. I really fkn hate Bettman.
So the Wings were robbed because they needed one of the Pens best players to be suspended for them to win? Or because they had to play the series early just like the Pens did?
I think it was game 1 in 09 Osgood had a puck sitting on his back that was covered in the crease by zetterberg and the Wings got away with it. If the Pens score on the penalty shot they should've been awarded, they're back in that game. Maybe they take game 1 and the series goes a whole different way. Who knows though because that's the breaks. It's not fair to cherrypick the few breaks the Pens got, as if those were the only significant tipping points in the series.
There's breaks and bounces in all series. Short of what happened to Buffalo in 99, no call really determines a series.
When the Wings won the Cup in 08 they were fortunate enough to stay healthy throughout the playoffs. I think that's the year they played the Avs who were decimated by injuries. That's just how the game goes.
It was a heartbreaking loss for sure. But the Wings weren't robbed. They got beat by a healthier younger team who had learned from losing in the Finals the year before.
We were cheated out of 09 so I don't count that as a loss.
I agree. In my book I consider that series to be marked with an asterisk indicating that the Wings really won it. Losing by a goal in Game 7, hitting the post with seconds to go, all while only playing on half cylinders? The Wings owned that series but couldn't score all of a sudden.
The Wings didn't own that series. they started strong and ran out of gas, and hence lost the series. They weren't cheated, they just lost in heartbreaking fashion.
Sorry guys, I can't believe I'm saying this, but I agree with stinky fish...
As infuriating as it would be at the time, the Pens would be a great rematch. Giving the Wings to chance to break the tie.
Unfortunately I've watched enough hockey over the last 25 years of my life to know when you don't score on a 5 on the 3 you usually don't win hockey games. Good night everyone I wish the Wings could prove me and that wrong but it hardly happens.
The thing is that if you stop watching in the first period, then you would've missed all the games they won in spite of not scoring on a 5 on 3.
but why is the bad call made? this call wouldn't have been made 10 years ago.
A bunch of players hooking the crap out of Datsyuk after he deked them out of their jockstrap wouldn't have been called 10 years ago either.
It was a great hit and a bad call. But lamenting the death of hockey as we know it assumes that these calls (or any other problem we don't like with the game) will continue unchanged until it runs the game into the ground. That's not how it works. Players adjust, refs adjust, the league adjusts. The game adapts.
When we came out of the lockout, it felt like you couldn't touch another player without a hooking penalty. After a little while it settled down. With hitting it feels like the pendulum has swung too far in the direction of calling clean hard hits just because the guy had his head down. But I'm hoping they'll figure out some better standards and settle down and adjust.
To me the biggest adjustment they need to make to hitting (other than the obvious east west headshots) are the exploding upwards into hit (Sorry Kronner). Go back to old style hitting of skates on the ice, all the energy directed towards the guys body, not leaping up towards his head.
Again, great hit by Ramage. He totally read that play. And man am I old because so many of the player's names that I recognize now, it turns out to be their kid. Or the player is now a GM.
Well of course they fought more times in the playoffs. They played more games Duh!
You can't compare teams that played fewer games with teams that played more games and get a valid statistical comparison. That's like comparing the number or murders in New York with the number in Ishpeming.
Because there are a lot of LGW members that yearn for the old days when there was more fighting in hockey. That game is gone and many people on here don't want to accept that.
If you read back through the thread, it wasn't the pro-fighting crowd who made it about that.
And that game is gone?? If the Wings were a physical team that dropped the gloves a lot, everyone here would be fight slappies. Because they dont', many take the position that it's obsolete or stupid.
The reigning Stanley Cup champion Boston Bruins had 71 fights last season. It's not like fighting has gone the way of the dinosaur. It just has in Detroit.
Sure they fought but relative to the rest of the league, very little and still won Cups.
They are currently first overall in points in the entire league.
I want to see them win more than see them fight or play "tough". They looked pretty tough in those 3 straight wins against a much bigger and tougher St. Louis team who they outscored by a combined margin of 9-3.
So your proof of their toughness is 3 regular season games against the Blues?
I realize they're first overall in the entire league at the moment. I don't think anyone is saying this teams sucks right now and needs changes to do well in the regular season. It's about going deep in the playoffs.
And I'm not talking about getting a guy who plays 4 minutes a night for a half a season and skates off the bench to a staged fight to the penalty box. This isn't about getting a goon, no matter how much you try to make it sound that way.