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Member Since 11 Feb 2004
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#2212383 The Official NHL Suspension Thread

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 05 October 2011 - 12:10 PM

You guys see Shanny's Good Decisions/Good Hits video?

Great video.

That's the thing, it's not about removing hitting from the game. In the past players would almost always let up in those situations highlighted in the video. But over the years there's been a new breed of player. Guys like the Matt Cooke's, Raffi Torres, Tootoo's, who make their living running guys in vulnerable positions. Over time it became an acceptable part of the game.

You can get the headhunting out of the game and still leave plenty of opportunities for crushing hits.

#2211898 MacArthur receives 2-game suspension for Abdelkader hit

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 03 October 2011 - 02:09 PM

He didn't dive. Sorry.

I guess it comes down to semantics at some point. He was contacted in the head, yes, but he also stopped skating and fell down, arms spread, already pleading to the refs for a penalty. In my book that's a dive, and it's disappointing to see a Wings player doing that.

Watching the replay a few times, you can clearly see the delay between when Abby gets hit, and when he throws his arms up over his head. Not sure why you'd do that when you get in the head, unless it was to make it look worse than it was.

The natural reaction is to grab your head, or at least try and keep skating, if you're interested in playing hockey and not diving.

#2211401 MacArthur receives 2-game suspension for Abdelkader hit

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 01 October 2011 - 06:41 PM

It doesn't matter if you are facing the boards and I still board you, I never had to board you in the first place. The fact I let up is irrelevant. He still intentionally hit Abby in the head. I'll say it again, he intentionally head shot Abby. Instead of letting up, how about he play the body or puck, not the head.

The same could be said for Brendan on his hit. He threw a shoulder that only contacted the head.

And I can say 100 times that Brendan intended to hit Ben in the head. It doesn't make it true.

To be clear I don't think Brendan intended to hit Ben Smith's head. And with MacArthur if anything he showed a lot of intent of hitting Abby late, but I can't see much that shows he clearly intended to hit Abdelkader in the head. Like I said, he could've pulled a Matt Cooke on him. It looks like he let up. Abby had his back to the play and was turning up ice with his head low, which is when MacArthur hit him.

There seems to be a lot of hypocrisy regarding these hits, depending on what sweater the player is wearing.

I think there was. I think they called him for interference.

I didn't see any ref with his hand up for the hit. And in the box score they have Abby with two for cross checking and MacArthur with two for high sticking. That was the altercation after the play.

#2211365 MacArthur receives 2-game suspension for Abdelkader hit

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 01 October 2011 - 05:34 PM

So apparently when you're wearing a Red Wings sweater, you have no responsibility for keeping your head up. But if you're in an opposing team's sweater, it's just unfortunate contact and you should have your head up? Abby's head was much lower than Ben Smiths was, he turned with his back to MacArthur and skated for the puck, putting himself in that low of a position. Then on top of it, he dove.

MacArthur could've brained Abby if he wanted to. Yes he contacted the head, but it looked to me like he let up. There wasn't even a penalty called on the play.

It should've been maybe been 2 for a late hit, then 2 on Abby for diving.

#2210896 Brendan Smith suspended for 5 games

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 30 September 2011 - 12:16 PM

I wasn't quite sure what to think, but the Puck Daddy article on the hit puts it very eloquently:

My problem with the article is that is furthers the myth that Stevens was a headhunter or that his hits only contacted the head.

People watch a couple Youtube clips of his hits on Kariya and Lindros and act like his career was full of those. When he KO'd Kozlov, he still contacted mostly body. Even if the hits did involve the head, they're usually dead on to the body, skates on the ice and would be legal by today's rules.

In his 22 year NHL career, Stevens had maybe a handful of hits that would be suspension worthy under the current climate. In general he had a sixth sense for catching guys when they weren't paying attention, in a similar way Kronwall does now. That's still legal when you hit the body.

#2210859 Brendan Smith suspended for 5 games

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 30 September 2011 - 11:23 AM

I'm not sold on those situations being too similar. Brendan Smith is no Vladdy. And Ben Smith is no Claude.

Also, how is a 6 foot 2 defensemen supposed to get low enough on a 5 foot 10 inch forward to upend him like that?

Smith didn't really play it that wrong, it was an unfortunate incident, but Ben Smith put himself in the position for his head to get hit, instead of just taking the initial check which would have been body on body.

I always enjoy that video, though. :thumbup:

Smith absolutely played that wrong. Even without the head contact, it was an all or nothing defensive move, with the much greater chance of getting nothing and leaving Ben in for a clean breakaway.

It doesn't matter that he's 6'2". Rob Blake is 6'3" and threw devastating hip checks. They just have to be done properly.

But when you line a guy up at that severe an angle, there's a high potential you'll miss. And if you throw a shoulder to try and catch some of him, there's a high potential you'll clip him in the head.

#2210831 Brendan Smith suspended for 5 games

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 30 September 2011 - 10:52 AM

serious hate comming down on shanny on twitter. this is silly, ben smith should get suspended for headbutting smiths shoulder. this is just so stupid. if ur heads down thats what u get! if the guy uses his shoulder it is a clean hit 99 percent of the time. im just distraught

Ben didn't headbutt his shoulder. Brendan threw a high risk hit and missed, only clipping the head. Now he's getting punished for it.

Here's the way it should be done.


compared to the wrong way.


Vladdy takes a better angle and is coming in low for the hip check. He's got his body lined up properly with Lemieux's, so even when Turtle tries to avoid the hit, Konstantinov makes solid contact with him.

Brendan came east west and was going to miss, so he threw a shoulder, which has an extremely high chance of clipping a guy in the head. Ben Smith didn't have his head extraordinarily low. It was where most guy's would be when they're carrying the puck.

I think the suspension is too long, but this was not Ben Smith's fault because of a toe drag move or having his head too low.

#2209609 9/25 Pre-Season GDT: Chicago Blackhawks at Red Wings

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 25 September 2011 - 05:34 PM

Love seeing Nick talking that animatedly with the young guys, passing on some wisdom to Smith.

#2209599 9/25 Pre-Season GDT: Chicago Blackhawks at Red Wings

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 25 September 2011 - 05:15 PM

It's good to catch preseason games so i can adjust to all the new guys and their numbers. :blink:

Like Mick said, I keep thinking Maltby's out there.

Whichever Wings player that just was, PLEASE don't go don't to block shots in the preseason.

#2209203 Mike Modano announces retirement

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 23 September 2011 - 02:44 PM

Modano a better skater than LaFontaine? You get a big fat <HELL NO> stamp on that one. LaFontaine, not Modano, is who you should be applying that "as well as any player in hockey history" tag to. Modano had raw speed. LaFontaine had better speed than Modano, and he had ridiculous ability to change direction unexpectedly at full speed. People talk about the way Bure could skate; LaFontaine did it first. Modano was never able to do that kind of stuff at full speed.

As for other skills; okay, I left out his slap shot. As for his backhand, I don't know that I would rank it "best of all-time" but that is beside the point. Whether he can fire a puck over 90 m.p.h., perfectly place a backhand, or use psychic powers to will the puck from center ice into the net without any player making contact, none of it means he WAS a better player unless it helped him score more goals. In 634 more games, Modano scored 561 goals - 93 more goals than LaFontaine's 468.

You say that LaFontaine got his numbers because of the 80s. Well, how about this? At www.hockey-reference.com you can view neat statistics called adjusted goals/assists/points. They are adjusted to account for the difference in scoring in a given season to a base goals-per-game average of 6. Using this, Modano still ends up scoring fewer goals per game, although the gap is smaller. Modano is also still under a point per game, while LaFontaine is still over.

Longevity matters, but both players played for such a long time that it's not a logical argument to say "Modano played a bunch more years at a lower level, so he's better." because that would be like saying Steve Yzerman is better than Mario Lemieux because Yzerman had more points and was better defensively.

I also realized while looking at the numbers that I had forgotten another American player who was better than Modano. Brian Leetch. And Jeremy Roenick could easily be included as well. Or maybe Joe Mullen. Possibly Phil Housley.

I'll have to remember this for the next time an Osgood HHOF argument breaks out; Original Six goalies are now worthless, due to the fact there were only six teams. Welcome to the Hall, Guy Hebert, Arturs Irbe, and Jocelyn Thibault!

Your posts almost make me regret defending Osgood when people were diminishing his accomplishments in the thread about his retirement.

I guess I'll have to wait until Hudler goes back to Europe in a few years, then in his farewell thread I can talk about all the players who were much better than him.

#2208986 Shelley Suspended 10 games for hit from behind

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 22 September 2011 - 07:29 PM

"Shelley hit Boyce squarely from behind into the glass," NHL senior vice president for player safety Brendan Shanahan said of the second-period hit. "Boyce's back was turned toward Shelley well before the contact, requiring that Shelley avoid or minimize the check. He did neither.

"Shelley's two suspensions last season weighed heavily in this decision," Shanahan added.

Shelley was suspended twice last season for four games and is considered a repeat offender under the league's collective bargaining agreement. He was also fined $67,073, which will be paid into the Players' Emergency Assistance Fund.


I honestly think this is a great start for Shanny. 10 games seemed harsh at first, but this was such a clear hit from behind that could have easily been avoided. When there's as little grey area in what happened as a hit like this, I think the league should come down hard.

I don't want to jump the gun, but here's hoping there's no more Campbell Wheel of Justice.

#2208813 Kindl

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 22 September 2011 - 11:41 AM

Great to hear.

Though he should probably avoid saying he wants to be a dirty player in the press. :P

He should use the more vague and acceptable "gritty" or "edgy" or "Pronger."

#2208804 Will Ericsson Earn His Raise?

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 22 September 2011 - 11:16 AM

From what I have watched (every game since 2006), Kindl is far more sound than Erickson. I have seen the typical rookie mistakes, but it says a lot when I feel way more confident when Kindl is back there. He's not overly physical, but he gets back as a serviceable skater, protects the puck, and makes quick sharp passes out of the zone. When was the last time anyone saw Big Rig have a quick sharp pass on the tape? On the other note- I dont know how Smith will take the job of Kindl if they are going to be in 2 different leagues this year. Smith can still be sent down, and will be in order to get top-pairing in the AHL and 20+ minutes a night. Kindl will most likely rotate in and out with whoever is sucking more- Big Rig or Commodore.

To the larger topic at hand- I am still drinking the KennyKoolAid. If your largest mistakes as GM are named Cory Cross, Quincy, Hatcher, and the current Big Rig contract, then you are still by FAR the best GM in Hockey. I hope to see Erickson improve- I really do. However, I gave up on him last season. There were too many times that he just stagnated, and I just do not see the faith being fulfilled. If only someone would find out what he was eating during the Anaheim series, and feed him that from now on it may end up being alright. But as I said before- I do not believe at this point that I will be seeing that defenseman any time soon.

This line of reasoning always confuses me.

Kindl is "far more sound" than Ericsson, yet Babcock inexplicably only plays him 13 minutes a game in 48 games. Whereas Ericsson plays the full season at almost 19 minutes per game. And Kindl didn't see a second of playoff time. If he's far more sound, why would the Red Wings utilize him that way? They had Salei battling with Kindl for the final spot, so it's not like they're going to give it to Ericsson just on experience or reputation. And as you mentioned, Holland gives Ericsson a big raise, in spite of having a more sound player in the minors ready to fill his role?

Those are some pretty terrible decisions by Babcock and Holland if what you're saying was true.

The reality is Kindl is not more sound than Ericsson. That's not to say he won't develop and become that. But so far, he just isn't. More than anything, Kindl needs to prove himself and secure a permanent spot in the lineup. Then we'll see how he develops.

#2208144 Tampa Bay to have no fighting policy in training camp

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 19 September 2011 - 02:57 PM

A player at the Blackhawks` training camp was injured last season in a fight.

It seems a tad stupid to allow players on the same team to fight each other.

Agreed. And from a management perspective you just paid one of your players to injure the other.

Not surprising that teams would have a policy against it.

#2208065 Yet another lawsuit filed against Bert

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 18 September 2011 - 08:53 PM

Not sure i understand. I don't think anyone thinks what bert done wasn't absolutely the stupidest thing he or pretty much anyone has done on the ice in the nhl. But the question is. When is enough enough if in fact this is a new case against him and if he has already paid money out to moore.

I don't think it's that hard to understand. People are cutting Bert a lot more slack now that he's a Red Wing.

And I don't think this is a new lawsuit, or that Bertuzzi has paid any damages to Moore at this point.

Everything I've read just refers to Moore's lawsuit finally getting a court date. Nothing about it being new.

It's an extremely misleading thread title by the OP. The first part of the article he linked to says:

A civil case pitting former NHL player Steve Moore against Todd Bertuzzi(notes) and the Vancouver Canucks could finally see the inside of a courtroom late next year.

The target date for the Ontario Superior Court trial to begin if necessary is Sept. 24, 2012 if Bertuzzi is still an active player, and Oct. 22 if he’s not, according to court documents viewed by CBC.

Court-ordered mediation between the sides has failed to lead to a settlement.