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Member Since 11 Feb 2004
Offline Last Active Sep 16 2014 06:54 PM

#2531852 Wings re-sign Cleary $1.5 mill + $1mill in game bonuses

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 12 July 2014 - 03:12 PM

Of course you missed the point about extrapolation and it not being baseless. Besides, speculation is part of being a fan. It's what happens after the GM puts out cryptic messages.


And Harold you really aren't sure whether Cleary's agent would bring that up?

After Holland indicates that he kinda sorta didn't really want to sign him, but loyalty yadda yadda...That's you're honest opinion?


There probably isn't a sports agent who wouldn't at the very least try and use that if their client wanted another deal (I know more 'speculation')



I just don't see why you're creating things to get mad at Cleary about.  There's plenty enough to be mad about as a Red Wings fan right now that is factually known. 

#2531824 Confused on the direction of this team going forward

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 12 July 2014 - 12:09 PM

Him being lazy, floating, being streaky. He is basically their franzen but he puts up slightly higher point totals.


What??  Hossa is streaky maybe, but he isn't lazy or a floater.  The guy goes all out even when he's not putting up points. 


The biggest downside of Hossa is his increasing list of nagging injuries.  

#2531822 Tom Renney could be leaving, too.

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 12 July 2014 - 12:03 PM

Calling Professor Larionov, Professor Larionov, please report to human resources...


I'm not sure he'd be the best PP coach. 


"Just make a perfect pass to the spot where you know Kozlov will be.  He'll make a couple nice moves in the corner and throw a no look pass to where Konstantinov will be, who is cutting back door from the point.  If Vladdy doesn't have a high percentage scoring chance then Fedorov will have already moved into position by the far post for an outlet.  Simple."

#2531809 Wings re-sign Cleary $1.5 mill + $1mill in game bonuses

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 12 July 2014 - 11:31 AM

"Of course I can explain what's wrong with this, I just don't want to! I'll just say it's made up cuz i'm a mod" Well done harold, well done.

It came off as maybe more blunt than intended because I didn't elaborate, but my point stands that you are making all this conjecture about things we have no real idea about.

Sure it's speculation. But it isn't baseless. It's called extrapolation and its amazing the amount of info you can get by it. You should try it sometime!
Answer me this:
Do you really think he turned down a 3 year deal from Detroit because his heart was in Detroit? Does that make sense to you?
        - doesn't make sense to me


I have no idea and neither do you.  He may not have realized how much he liked playing on the Wings until he was confronted with the reality of playing on another team.  Who knows.

Did he turn down multi-year offers from multiple teams (or even 1 team) to come back? Or was it a tryout with one team with no guarantees?
        -Indications are it was the latter (I'll admit I'm not positive as its been claimed both ways, still alot of confusion about this)


Holland has said (who you're using as a source so let's say he's reliable) that Cleary had multiple offers from other teams.

“He had three-year offers from some teams last year,” Holland said. “We said at the time we would talk at the end of the season.”


Do you think this handshake deal has nothing to do with this signing?
        -Quotes from Holland strongly indicate it does


I never said it doesn't. As you point out, Holland said it does.

Do you really think his agent was just going to forget about said deal?
        -Wouldn't be much of an agent if he did. Of course he's going to reach out to the GM about it.


Probably. who knows. But you're stating it as fact and it's speculation on your part.

And please tell me what kind of positive leadership the guy is bringing to the table and (if there is any) how that outweighs his on ice performances.
        -If they need his locker room presence so bad then they could pay him to sit in the locker room. Pay him a million buck for a few years to be 'President of Team Morale'. No need to sign him to a playing contract.

I don't need to tell you any of that. If you read any of my posts in this thread, I'm not in favor of bringing Cleary back.



I just pointed out that you're hating him for invented reasons. That he only came back because no one else wanted him.  That he thinks he deserves special treatment.  That his agent keeps bringing up this handshake deal.
Nothing you've quoted confirms any of that.  It's all just your speculation, which you admit.  Which means it is not factual, it is made up based on your opinion.  

#2531740 Wings re-sign Cleary $1.5 mill + $1mill in game bonuses

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 12 July 2014 - 12:56 AM

Last time was almost totally on Cleary. He was offered a 3-year deal by Ken, turned it down....and then came crawling back cuz his heart was still in Detroit? If that was the case he would have signed the first deal. It was only when he found out that every other team thinks he is worthless that he came back cuz his 'heart' was here.


And this time around he won't give it up because of some 'handshake' deal that was made last time. He actually thinks he deserves special treatment after that god-awful season he had because of that 'handshake'.


As much as I blame Holland for signing him (and I do quite a bit, for he has total power to just walk away and not sign him), even he knows what a bad deal this is. Already he's trying to pawn it off on players/coach & good/bad loyalty quotes.


I can't be certain who initiated these talks but I'm sure his agent wasn't going to stop letting Holland know about that 'handshake'. And Holland to his greatest fault went for it.


I know monetary wise it'd be stupid to turn it down, but all this talk of his 'leadership' is bulls*** because the guy isn't a leader. He's a hound chasing a squirrel. One of your 'team leaders' shouldn't be dragging the team down, especially if that is literally the only supposed thing he brings to the table. If he was truly a team leader he would be doing what is best for the team, and whats best for the team is him off of it.


For simplicity's sake, I bolded the parts you're making up. 

#2531719 Wings re-sign Cleary $1.5 mill + $1mill in game bonuses

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 11 July 2014 - 11:10 PM



Lidstrom was a competitor, hell all pro athletes are. You don't get to that level without being one. Knowing when to walk away is one thing he definitely didn't learn from Nick. I don't blame him completely, but he can't be so blind to think he can still hack it on this team.


The Perfect Human is a tough example for anyone to follow.  Lidstrom went out a step slower but still near the top of his game. 


For all we know Cleary may want to come back because he knows he was terrible last season and doesn't want to go out that way. 


Like I said, it's not Cleary's job to decide whether or not he should be on the team.  

#2531716 Wings re-sign Cleary $1.5 mill + $1mill in game bonuses

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 11 July 2014 - 10:53 PM

Remember after the '13 playoffs, and even though we had just dropped a 3-1 series lead against the hawks, thinking "well at least next year we can improve by not having Cleary on the team"....


Does Cleary not realize that he is making everybody hate him? He could have retired after that season and been remember as a warrior and contributor for his time with the Wings.


Now the only thing main thing people are are going to remember about him is this f***in debacle two years in a row.

He'll be remembered as the guy who made the wings worse because he was too selfish to just hang them up.

He better hope like hell that this isn't the year they miss the playoffs because he will be the scapegoat for a LONG time (as well as Holland, he hasn't thought about his impending legacy as the guy who f***ed up the great Red Wings either)


Cleary is a competitor.  What made him great for those years is the same thing that makes him not want to quit now.  I can't fault a guy for wanting to play for the Red Wings for another year.  


If Cleary makes the team it's because the GM who gave him this contract and his coach decided he should have a spot over younger players.  That's not Cleary's fault.  It's not his responsibility to decline a job with the Red Wings because the GM can no longer evaluate talent effectively. 


I don't think he should've been offered a contract but if the Wings make the playoffs or not, I blame Cleary for nothing.  

#2531673 Tomas Jurco's Ridiculous New Stick Trick

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 11 July 2014 - 06:33 PM

It's a neat trick, but...

[cranky old man] I'd rather see him out there at the end of practice working on picking the top corner, or firing slapshots or something [/cranky old man]


which admittedly he may have been doing before or after this video.  It's just that stuff like that is cool I guess but has zero usefulness in a game, other than improving his general hand eye coordination.   I'm more impressed by a kid grinding it out after practice firing puck after puck.

#2531671 Wings re-sign Cleary $1.5 mill + $1mill in game bonuses

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 11 July 2014 - 06:29 PM

Speaking of not valuing fans.....


This from Art Regner's latest article:







The guy could just give two s***s about the fanbase. 


I don't have a problem with him not worrying about the fans reactions.  Who knows what the team would look like if he listened to us fanatics. 


It bothers me that he puts it on the players and coach and deflects responsibility for the decision.  He's the friggin GM.  He not only has final say, he should be pretty damn good at assessing players as well. 

#2531556 Wings re-sign Cleary $1.5 mill + $1mill in game bonuses

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 11 July 2014 - 01:01 PM

The NTC doesn't matter.  Who would want Cleary anyway?


You're probably right.  But it's something GM's throw in that usually goes along in exchange for a lower salary.  Holland hands them out like mints after dinner.

#2531545 Tom Renney could be leaving, too.

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 11 July 2014 - 12:15 PM


I wonder if the assistant coaches know Babcock isnt coming back next year already.

They are securing jobs now rather than wait till the new head coach shows up, and hires his own assistant coaches??


At the very least, I think the uncertainty about Babcock's future as coach of the Red Wings would have to factor in to some coaches and players' decisions about the Wings. 

#2531516 Wings re-sign Cleary $1.5 mill + $1mill in game bonuses

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 11 July 2014 - 10:44 AM

CapGeek ‏@capgeek 52s

Dan Cleary's bonus is $1 million for 10 games played. #RedWings


This s*** just gets more and more comical, Dano is going to make 2.5 million next year :lol:




so basically if he makes the team, he gets paid $2.5 million. 


This is just...  wow.

#2531504 Wings re-sign Cleary $1.5 mill + $1mill in game bonuses

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 11 July 2014 - 10:00 AM


Hmmm, that feels a little like a baiting reply to me...


Nowhere in my post did I say I'm hoping Cleary will get injured.  I'm just flat out predicting that he will & it will happen early in the season.  Too much of a history of injuries the past handful of seasons & way too many miles.  I'll go on the record in fact on how I think this plays out...


  • Around the week of 9/15, we'll start seeing media reports of Cleary not skating due to groin soreness
  • He'll try to go in the last pre-season game in Boston or maybe 2 of the last 3 and skate like his age matches his jersey #.  Yes, I'm assuming Alfie will be back so Dan will not skate like he's 11.
  • Despite struggling in the 1 or 2 pre-season games he appears in, he'll still make the team & Jurco winds up in GR.  I'll save this rant until another time but my theory is Cleary making the team has much more to do with Babcock than Kenny.
  • Danny looks terrible to start the season & after 3-4 games (around 10/15-17) we start seeing commentary on him being a warrior for playing through either what is thought to be a sports hernia or complications with his knees again.  HSJ will be the one leading the pack on those reports.
  • After a rather lopsided loss to either the Canadiens or the Pens the week of 10/21 where Cleary checks in with at least a -3 for the night with a couple of particularly boneheaded turnovers, he's put on the DL & Jurco is recalled.  
  • He tries to make an early return right after Thanksgiving & only lasts a few games before heading back to the DL.
  • Trade deadline day rolls around, there's no action from the Wings, & the board goes crazy when "The return of a healthy Dan Cleary and ... are our deadline acquisitions" ("and ..." being one of the following: Zetterberg, Datsyuk, or Franzen, my money's on Franzen) comes out of the mouth of Holland.  Much weeping & gnashing of teeth ensues.  

So in actuality, I'm hoping everyone stays healthy.  Given past history though, I'm expecting that won't happen & in Cleary's case, I'm expecting it to happen fairly quickly.  



Ok, let me be clear. 


I think choosing an injured player, let alone an injured Red Wings player, is in poor taste.  Then when you make a post predicting that same player will get injured, taken along with your avatar picture it sure seems like you're hoping for it.  Or at least would enjoy it if it did happen. 


Because I'm not sure exactly why someone would choose an image of a Red Wings player in pain on the ice and use that as their avatar.   


In spite of all that though, you are actually saying you hope Dan Cleary remains healthy so he can play for the Wings? 

#2531502 Dan Cleary appreciation thread

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 11 July 2014 - 09:50 AM

Since this was bumped sarcastically, it's staying locked for now. 


Dan Cleary discussion can take place in the thread about his signing. 

#2531425 Wings re-sign Cleary $1.5 mill + $1mill in game bonuses

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 10 July 2014 - 10:53 PM

Dan Cleary after a pillow fight. 


Also, here's what he said about the MASSIVE amount of fan/media criticism today, from MLive:


"Everybody is entitled to their opinion," Cleary said. "You try not to let any of the negativity – or the positive comments – affect you. We live in the day of social media; anyone can say anything. You can't worry about what people think. You got to do what you do."


Good on him. 


Like I said, I don't like this signing but I sure don't blame Cleary for wanting to come back and play for the Red Wings. 


And he is one of the toughest and most fearless players on the team.   The ice packs are from years of going to the parts of the ice Franzen is scared to.