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Dabura

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#2567294 Do we need a trade to get our offence going ?

Posted by Jesusberg on 31 January 2015 - 09:43 AM

Honestly, I think some of our prospects are being grossly overvalued. Right now this defense corps consists of two legitimate Top 4 guys, with perhaps Quincey on the edge of that.

Here's the thing... Cup contention or not, right now this team's got nothing in the way of defenders to help with a transition from the vets to the prospects. When you look up front, you've got guys like Nyquist and Tatar who are going to hold things down before Mantha and Larkin (hopefully) transition into solid players. Kindl and Smith should be the guys helping with that transition on the back end, but they're just not good enough. DeKeyser by himself isn't enough.

I definitely think Detroit has something in guys like Ouellet and Sproul, but who's holding down the fort as they progress? You can only pile so much on Kronwall. If you can pull the trigger on Smith, Pulkkinen and a 1st for a legitimate offensive threat between the ages of 25-30, you do it. I wouldn't go as far as to say that those guys are replaceable, but they are most definitely expendable. As much as I enjoy Pulkkinen's possible upside, he's more of the same on this team. We've got the smaller skilled goal scorers in Tatar and Nyquist, with Mantha on his way soon. Without coming down on the guy too much, I do think that Ouellet is more than capable of doing the job Smith is doing now, and has better upside.
 

It isn't about adding a piece to put this team over the edge. It's about adding a piece to make real improvements to this team so that they can remain successful. I'd rather not find out the answer to, "Can Ouellet, Sproul, Marchenko, etc. progress fast enough to offset Kronwall slowing down?" Waiving Lashoff was a proactive move by Holland, and I hope he's willing to make another one with some of the assets in the system now.




#2566747 Do we need a trade to get our offence going ?

Posted by kipwinger on 29 January 2015 - 02:47 PM

If I offered you $1,000,000 today OR $0.01 today, doubling each day for 30 days... Which would you take?... 95% of LGWers take the million up front, I'm just glad Holland would take the penny...

 

Holland wouldn't make any combination of a deal there. Sure, making that deal makes us better today, but we take a huge hit in the future...

 

The smart move is somewhere in the middle though right?  I mean, I get that it's good to be patient and build a contender.  But at some point, you've got to decide now's the time, and try to win.  Always looking toward the future obscures the fact that (pardon this goofy description) the present was the future at one point.  What's all this saving, and developing, and patience working toward if not to make a Cup run?  And as far as I know, no team (in the modern era) has done that with 100% homegrown pieces.  Chicago, Los Angeles, Boston...all had significant help from outside.  If you're not willing to move pieces for guys like Yandle, or O'Reilly, or Spezza, or Kesler, etc. when they become available, exactly what are you willing to move them for?  And if the answer is "nothing", you're in trouble.  Because, as I said, nobody has ever managed to win that way yet. 




#2567063 1/29 GDT - Red Wings 1 at Lightning 5

Posted by Jersey Wing on 29 January 2015 - 09:52 PM

Tonight is a bad night. No candy-coating it. Montreal won, Boston won. Got smacked in Tampa in a battle for first.

 

That being said it always seems a team with a winning streak gets blown out when the streak gets broken. What the Wings need to avoid at all costs is to lose say 4 of the next 5 now that the streak is over because that seems to happen a lot too.




#2566106 1/27 GDT : Red Wings 5 at Panthers 4

Posted by Hockeytown0001 on 26 January 2015 - 11:35 PM

6j6hRqm.jpg


#2563304 1/15 GDT : Red Wings 3 at Blues 2 (OT)

Posted by Hockeytown0001 on 14 January 2015 - 11:53 PM

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#2562747 Do we need a trade to get our offence going ?

Posted by Jesusberg on 12 January 2015 - 08:04 PM

 

I agree, in part.  My point is that while a solid puck mover is a necessary condition for being a contender, I don't think (given the way we've been playing) it's a sufficient one.  As such, I don't see Holland going out and getting one just to get one. 

 

If, however, we can string together some wins and play well against good teams (i.e. we're better than I think we are) then maybe Holland decides a puck mover is sufficient for Cup contention, and he pulls the trigger. 

 

Right now I think he's trying to figure out which is the case.  If the team wants a puck mover before the off-season, they better prove that they can run with the big boys. 

I get what you're saying, but I feel like the last time Holland did this was when he traded for Stuart. Outside of there being some sort of emergency, or him wanting to bring back a familiar face, Holland just seems content to stand pat. Admittedly, I'm glad he has for the most part, as it's been great to stock up on prospects again. I think this team is in a different place now, though.

I think it's time to pull the trigger on a deal for an offensive defender, whether we're in contention or not. I'm not sure we've got a bona fide top 4, offensive defender in Smith. Maybe it happens in a couple seasons, but I'm not really sold on it. Even if he has that potential, it seems evident that Babcock doesn't trust him, which makes me doubt he'll be played in a role where he can thrive. I know we don't have that in Kindl, and Ericsson has been suspect. In all honesty, Kronwall and DeKeyser are the only guys I trust in a top 4 role right now.

I think Detroit is in a place where they have a piece like Smith (who may flourish in another role, elsewhere), and some other pieces a bit further away like Sproul, Marchenko and Jensen, Backman's rights, a draft pick, one of the extra forwards on this team. I don't think they have the assets to land an elite guy, but I do think they can make a move for a top 4 guy. I'm not advocating a deal for the sake of it - I'm not for overpayment. However, I do think this team needs a legitimate offensive threat on the back end, and that they have the assets to pull it off. Even though I don't think it's likely, I think it's time for Holland to pony up and take a risk.




#2562555 Jimmy Howard.......All-Star!

Posted by GMRwings1983 on 11 January 2015 - 09:33 PM

For the record, I have total faith in Mrazek.

 

And I in McCollum.  




#2561270 1/6 GDT : Red Wings 4 at Edmonton Oilers 2

Posted by kipwinger on 07 January 2015 - 12:17 AM

Whelp, glad we won but man what a stinker of a game.  If we keep playing like this we're a lock to get into the playoffs...and promptly sent home.  The guys need to shape up.  Bad. 




#2561015 Randy Carlyle relieved of his duties by Leafs

Posted by kipwinger on 06 January 2015 - 05:40 PM

I thought Babcock was going to go to Minnesota, because his wife's sister lives there with her boyfriend Jeff?  Or was it Washington, because Brooks Orpik signed a rookie card for Lil' Mike Babcock?  Or was it the Rangers, because Babs' is pretty close buddies with Ken Hitchcock, who used to dream of living the bohemian life in Greenwich Village as a twenty something?




#2561013 Randy Carlyle relieved of his duties by Leafs

Posted by Jesusberg on 06 January 2015 - 05:25 PM

WHY WOULDN'T MIKE BABCOCK WANT TO COACH THE LEAFS?

 

THINK OF THE POSSIBILITIES, MAN!

 

KESSEL! PHANUEF! ...CLARKSON!

 

I'M GETTING HARD JUST THINKING ABOUT IT!


OK, but let's be serious for a second. Bozak, Winnik, Komarov and Polak would garner at least half a chub from Babs. #heavyonthepuck




#2560713 Pens aquire David Perron from Oilers

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 05 January 2015 - 01:11 PM

Don't get me wrong, I'm all about adding an offensive defenseman. We struggle to score primarily because our defensemen struggle to move the puck and shoot the puck and put up points. Ericsson is a shutdown defenseman. Quincey is a shutdown defenseman. DeKeyser is a shutdown defenseman. We want to play the way we played in '08 and '09, but we don't have the blue line for it. We had one straight-up shutdown defenseman in that top four (Stuart) and three all-star offensive defensemen (Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall). Now we just have Kronwall. That's not nearly good enough. That's why we run around in our end. It's why we trudge through the middle of the ice, often settling for just clearing the red line so we can dump it in and get a line change. It's why our power play often sucks. It's why we aren't a high-scoring team.
 
But we also don't have enough scoring depth up front. Even when we had Lidstrom and Rafalski and we'd just won the Cup, we thought it was worth adding Hossa. That gave us Datsyuk in his prime, Zetterberg in his prime, Franzen in his prime, Hossa in his prime, and good secondary scorers in Samuelsson, Cleary, and Filppula. (And even then, we came up short that year.) At present, we have an old Datsyuk, and old Zetterberg, Nyquist (can he be a major factor in the playoffs?), Tatar (can he be a major factor in the playoffs?), and sometimes an old Franzen (when he feels like showing up). Jurco is a possession monster, but he's not a significant scoring threat (yet). Helm's not a goal scorer. Abdelkader's having a career year, but he's not a goal scorer. Miller and Glendening don't score. The jury's out on Weiss. Sheahan's a stud, but he's not a goal scorer. I get that adding a scoring winger isn't going to fix this team's fundamental problems, but there's no such thing as too much scoring depth. If we're not going to put our late first-round pick towards a top-end defenseman like Yandle, if we're not going to use it on a rental like Green, if we're going to use it to select a pimple-faced teenager who won't be a real factor for the Wings until 2019, I think we should consider adding a gritty right-shot scoring winger. If we're loading up for a deep run (and I'm not sure that we are), better safe than sorry. Depth, depth, depth. It matters.
 
And at some point we do have to add some righties. That's another reason why we don't move the puck as well as we'd like - everyone's a left shot. It's a wonder we move the puck as well as we do, actually.

Agree about the defenseman.

I've been beating this point to death lately but when I watch other teams I realize how often defenseman usually get shots on net from the point and how crucial that is. I've just gotten used to the Wings not being able to do it.

I think Dekeyser is playing great overall, but his slapshot swing is so awkward it looks like he's gonna fall over half the time. Ericsson's windup is slow as molasses. Kronwall has turned into the new shinpad assassin.

It's always great to have depth up front, but I have to think that the most beneficial move is getting a right handed defenseman who can move the puck and get shots through from the point. It's pathetic right now.


#2560301 Detroit's Stifling Defence (TSN.ca)

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 03 January 2015 - 01:26 PM

I don't have a problem with the newer analytics themselves (admittedly I'm still sorting out what all the stats measure).  The problem I have is how routinely they're misused and misinterpreted, including this article. 

 

They call Sheahan Detroit's best shot suppressor, then point out he starts more than 62% of his shifts in the offensive zone.  So in one sentence they've drawn a faulty conclusion from the statistics and even included the reason why they're wrong.  

 

Very likely Sheahan isn't Detroit's best shot suppressor.  When you start the vast majority of your shifts in the offensive zone, that means your opponent has to go a long way to register a shot attempt.  Glendening on the other hand, starts in the offensive zone less than 33% of the time.  Two-thirds of his shifts, he's starting in front of his own net, so there's going to be a lot more shot attempts from his opponent. 

 

Then in subtler ways, they often use language that draws conclusions not supported by the stats.  It's not that Sheahan himself only "allows" 37.7 shot attempts per 60 minutes of play.  It means that when Sheahan is on the ice, the other team only gets 37.7 shot attempts per 60 minutes of play.  That's it.  But people constantly make the logical leap that the statistic says something specifically that a player is doing on the ice.  That's a HUGE difference.  




#2560186 Are the Wings a Contender?

Posted by krsmith17 on 02 January 2015 - 09:39 AM

I was going to put this in the "Nashville has yet to lose 2 games in a row this season" thread, but I started going off on a tangent so here seemed more appropriate...

 

Nashville are the only team to not lose two games in a row this season, but Nashville AND Detroit are the only two teams that have not lost two games in a row in regulation this season. I think the Wings have been  pretty consistent this season. Sure, their goal scoring has seen it's ups and downs but the same goes for every team. The key is, when their goal scoring has gone through it's dry spells, they have managed to keep the opposition in check, lowering their goals against. In saying that though, I do believe that Detroit are much better off trying to win games 4-3, 4-2 as opposed to 2-1, 1-0. Unlike past years, this team is capable of scoring at a higher clip, but for whatever reason, Babcock would rather play defensive hockey over offensive hockey, which clearly is not the teams strong suit... I do think Babcock is a great coach, but I think a lot (maybe all) fans get frustrated with his line combinations, ice time distribution, constant coddling of certain players, while other (better) players remain in his dog house (for reasons unexplained...).

 

I hate when people say things like, "Detroit are lucky they're getting all these "loser points", otherwise they wouldn't be in the playoff picture". No, not at all. This "loser point" as it is so often referred, is the same thing as a point for a tie, the extra point that is handed out to the "winner" is the one that should get the negative connotation in my opinion. These teams that are racking up points in the shootout are the "lucky" ones, and the "bulls*** winner in a shootout point" needs to go in my opinion. Teams shouldn't be able to make the playoffs based on a skills competition. The Red Wings are 1-7 in the shootout, while the Islanders are 6-1. If the Red Wings had a reversed record and 6 more points, they would be first in the league with 55 points, whereas, if the Islanders had a reversed record and 5 less points, they would be a borderline playoff team instead of being tied for second in the Conference. I hate using "what ifs" but that is a pretty remarkable difference, based on an aspect of the game that should be done away with, in a lot of fans opinions...

 

Anyway, is this team a contender? I think they are a couple pieces away from being a true contender. I just hope Holland makes the necessary moves, without mortgaging the future. The pieces are definitely there, but let's just hope he doesn't move any of the "untouchables"...




#2560284 Detroit's Stifling Defence (TSN.ca)

Posted by The Greek on 03 January 2015 - 11:41 AM

I respect Mirtle, Yost and all their other mathfreaks but as soon as I see their name ---> skip article.
 
If I wanted to read math stuff I'd look somewhere else and not at a sports site...with a horrible design

It's ok, a lot of people are frightened by things they don't understand.


#2559427 Lines Thread

Posted by LeftWinger on 28 December 2014 - 11:40 AM

Everytime I come in here I secretly hope to see a post from Blue Adams...