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Dabura

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#2682233 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by Dabura on 05 July 2016 - 07:30 AM

http://www.sportingn...8213spqckr4u09n

 

"The big thing in today’s game is you have to be able forecheck and backcheck, and you have to have the puck," Sutter said over the weekend (h/t Ryan Lambert). "You can’t give the puck up. We don’t play in our zone, so there’s not much defending."

 

[ . . . . ]

 

"The game’s changed. They think there’s defending in today’s game. Nah, it’s how much you have the puck. Teams that play around in their own zone (say) they’re defending but they’re generally getting scored on or taking face-offs and they need a goalie to stand on his head if that’s the way they play,” said Sutter.

 

http://archive.azcen...erfect-fit.html

 

"We had a player that was supposed to be a great, shut-down defenseman. He was supposedly the be-all, end-all of defensemen. But when you did a 10-game analysis of him, you found out he was defending all the time because he can't move the puck.

 

"Then we had another guy, who supposedly couldn't defend a lick. Well, he was defending only 20 percent of the time because he's making good plays out of our end. He may not be the strongest defender, but he's only doing it 20 percent of the time. So the equation works out better the other way. I ended up trading the other defenseman."

 




#2682232 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by Dabura on 05 July 2016 - 07:18 AM

Your answer to getting rid of black holes of possession on the roster is to play Pulkkinen? Really? When the puck touches his stick specifically, the other team is the next to have it. 

 

Pulkkinen's possession numbers are sparkling. Know why? He creates offense. Because that's what he is -- a point-producer. You can isolate a few examples where he flat-out turned the puck over. That's fine. But you have to realize that Miller and Glendening never have the freaking puck. You also have to realize that the best players in the league tend to turn the puck over a lot. (Few turn it over more than Subban, Doughty, Karlsson.) Does this make them terrible possession players? No. What it's reflecting is the fact that they have the puck a lot more than 97% of their peers do and they're always looking to move the puck, make a play, generate offense -- create.

 

All Drew Miller and Luke Glendening and Steve Ott do is react, endure, defend. They chase the puck. Contrary to popular belief, they're not helping our cause. Now that we have Frans Nielsen, who's one of the game's best two-way centermen, we really, really, really need to get past this "you need a fourth line that's real good defensively" bulls***.

 

The Penguins! They slaughtered all comers, and they did it the way it's supposed to be done -- by simply and utterly overwhelming them. Not by waiting them out. Not by enduring. Not by defending. The Penguins took the fight to everyone, and they were the last ones standing. The Penguins are one Cup-winner that the Wings really could learn a thing or two (or twelve) from. In the year 2016, Mike Sullivan's brand of aggressive possession hockey is The Right Way.




#2682231 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by Dabura on 05 July 2016 - 07:04 AM

You'd happily put that line out for a D-zone start at an away game, knowing the home team have last change?

 

We have Frans Nielsen now. He can and does and will play brutal minutes.


We also have Darren Helm. And Dylan Larkin. And Andreas Athanasiou. And Riley Sheahan. And Justin Abdelkader. And Henrik Zetterberg.

 

And yet, we totally need a "gritty, defensive" fourth line of grinders. It adds so much to our arsenal!




#2682218 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by Dabura on 04 July 2016 - 09:37 PM

Well - there would be scoring.  This much is true.

 

A line of Pulkkinen-Sheahan-Jurco would outperform a line that features the possession black holes that are Drew Miller and Luke Glendening. Ken Holland and Jeff Blashill and Mike Babcock would say, "Not good enough defensively." And therein lies the problem. This organization fetishizes defending, fetishizes playing without the puck, fetishizes a fundamentally flawed brand of hockey.




#2682217 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by Dabura on 04 July 2016 - 09:30 PM

Ye but I'd rather see Ott on the 4th line because toughness is something we desperately lack.

 

"Toughness" (whatever that is) is not something we desperately need. We didn't beat Anaheim in 2013 because we were "tougher" than them. Chicago didn't beat us in 2013 because they were "tougher" than us. Boston didn't beat us in 2014 because they were "tougher" than us. Tampa didn't beat us in 2015 because they were "tougher" than us. Tampa didn't beat us this year because they were "tougher" than us. Not a single one of these teams was "tougher" than us.

 

We can't score to save our playoff lives, mainly because we lack elite talent at the top of our lineup. That's the big problem we're facing. Neither Miller nor Ott is going to help that cause. Using a "gritty, defensive" fourth line is an outdated strategy. You win with skill and by scoring goals. We need more goals. We need more skill, talent.




#2682215 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by Dabura on 04 July 2016 - 09:10 PM

Miller isn't blocking anyone from a scoring line, Helm, Vanek, and Nielsen are.

 

Our fourth line could be a scoring line. There's no law against it. Pulkkinen-Sheahan-Jurco?




#2682185 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by Dabura on 04 July 2016 - 03:47 PM

So move players around. Also, players do improve from one year to the next. Allowing them to actually play helps them improve.
And a 32 year old second line center will put them over the top?

 

I believe Larkin and Athanasiou are future cornerstone centermen. At the same time, though, I don't think Larkin or Athanasiou is ready to play the kind of role that Frans Nielsen has been playing for years. This is a case where, in terms of pure positional primacy and experience, the tie truly ought to go to the vereran. Nielsen can be hard-matched against anyone in the league and hold his own. He can center a top PP unit and a top PK unit. He can start a lot of his shifts in the defensive zone -- against elite players -- and still find a way to drive possession in the right direction. He can win key faceoffs. These are things that Larkin and Athanasiou haven't proven they can do as top-six bus-driving NHL centermen. (Which, yeah, is kind of an unfair statement. But it is what it is.) Expecting them to do so, straight away, in 2016-17 helps neither the team nor the two players' respective development paths.




#2682166 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by Dabura on 04 July 2016 - 11:48 AM

I think we'll see a 1A / 1B between Larkin and Nielsen and I'm quite okay with that.

 

Yeah, same here. I think Nielsen will get the brutal matchups (which is why I don't think Vanek will be on his wing) while Larkin has it easier. So, I guess the way I see it, Nielsen will be our 1A. If that distinction even matters.




#2681986 Frans Nielson signs 6 year $5.25m AAV contract with Detroit

Posted by Dabura on 02 July 2016 - 04:06 PM

I hate that Holland comment with all of my heart and soul. It's stupid on so many levels. It encapsulates everything that's wrong with the state of the Wings.

 

Just for starters (I'm only going to launch one complaint here, but please know that I could write an entire essay about this quote), "Why does anyone think he is going to be the answer in Detroit?" is a straw man argument, one Holland has trotted out before when attempting -- and failing -- to convincingly rationalize a decision to hold a younger player back, i.e. keep him in the minors when it's obvious to anyone and everyone not named Ken Holland that the player in question should be playing in the National Hockey League.

 

People don't want Anthony Mantha in the lineup because they feel he's The Answer. They don't feel he's The Answer. What people feel is that Anthony Mantha brings certain elements to the lineup that are sorely lacking and sorely needed, e.g. size, high-level vision/thinking, scoring prowess, playmaking ability.

 

It's like a Wings fan saying, "Thomas Vanek is 32, slow-footed, poor defensively, and he doesn't drive possession. He was at the center of a gambling scandal. He was bought out by the Wild (i.e. they are literally paying him to not play for them). Why does anyone think he is going to be the answer in Detroit?"

 

Holland didn't sign Thomas Vanek because he feels he's The Answer. Holland doesn't think he's The Answer. What Holland feels is that Thomas Vanek brings certain elements to the lineup that are sorely lacking and sorely needed, e.g. size...high-level vision/thinking...scoring prowess...playmaking ability....




#2681931 Darren Helm re-signed: 5 years, $3.85m AAV

Posted by Dabura on 02 July 2016 - 11:55 AM

I think perhaps since Helm took the "discount"  (I do believe he would have gotten more yesterday from one of the teams interested in his services) that Kenny will have Helmer on the trade block-he doesnt have a no trade clause does he?  He could fit nicely in a package

 

Holland isn't one to sign-and-trade. (No GM is these days, honestly.) Bottom line, this is a Ken Holland Veteran Loyalty Program Extension. Helm will be with us for at least five more years, making considerably more money than he's worth. (And I say that as a big Darren Helm fan.)




#2681929 Darren Helm re-signed: 5 years, $3.85m AAV

Posted by Dabura on 02 July 2016 - 11:41 AM

The more I think about this deal, the more I hate it.




#2681922 Thomas Vanek signs 1 year, $2.6m deal with Detroit

Posted by Dabura on 02 July 2016 - 11:18 AM

May or may not be a problem as a player, but I sure wouldn't want my sister to be dating this guy - pretty clear warning signs.  My question is do the Wings have the coaching staff to get this guy on track? Blashill? Come on...

 

The Wings have handled "problem cases" before. I wouldn't expect any issues.

 

Vanek's professional career is on the line in 2016-17. If he's smart, he'll steer clear of off-ice distractions.




#2681919 Who should get A?

Posted by Dabura on 02 July 2016 - 11:09 AM

Lol would be the worst skilled NHL captain in history probably

 

But he's reel gud defensively tho.




#2681899 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by Dabura on 02 July 2016 - 10:06 AM

I still think one option to look at is adding teams that have a lot of defensive prospects and hope to pry one out before they came really good and cost a fortune or become unmovable at all

 

Absolutely. This has always been my position.




#2681875 Who should get A?

Posted by Dabura on 02 July 2016 - 07:42 AM

We all know Glendening is being groomed for the captaincy.