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Dabura

Member Since 27 Feb 2004
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#2535961 Dekeyser signed. 2 yrs $2.187 million AAV

Posted by Dabura on 11 September 2014 - 11:49 AM

Just for the record, Quincey's contract should have no bearing on DeKeyser's contract, as Quincey signed as a UFA and DeKeyser is an RFA. The real sticking point is, as Holland says, finding a good comparable for DeKeyser. He's clearly a very important part of the team, but the book on him at the pro level is so very, very thin. It's an unusual situation. Additionally, Smith is heading into the final year of his first contract and we've got four or five kids looking to make the jump this season - so this contract will set an intra-club precedent that will be referenced in future negotiations. So you really want to get this right.

 

Personally, I think he gets two or three years at around $3M.




#2535953 Ericsson and Alfredsson not 100%

Posted by Dabura on 11 September 2014 - 11:12 AM

The kids smell blood, like sharks. Or maybe vultures. Or maybe vulture sharks. (Vulks? Shartures?)




#2535702 Detroit offers D Raphael Diaz tryout

Posted by Dabura on 08 September 2014 - 01:55 AM

Mason Raymond did the same thing last year with the Leafs.

 

Yup, good call. I just brought up Cleary because it shows the Wings themselves have had success with the tryout option at least once.




#2535700 Detroit offers D Raphael Diaz tryout

Posted by Dabura on 08 September 2014 - 01:01 AM

I'm skeptical because if Diaz was anything truly worthwhile he wouldn't be taking tryout offers in September.

 

Eh, not necessarily. Cleary, for example, originally came to the Wings on a tryout basis.

 

I like Diaz. I think he'd be good for our third pairing and capable of filling in as our #4 in a pinch. He wouldn't singlehandedly fix our blue line, but, at the very least, I'd take him over Lashoff and Kindl. Maybe even Quincey.




#2535670 Detroit offers D Raphael Diaz tryout

Posted by Dabura on 07 September 2014 - 10:40 AM

He's better than you might think.




#2535482 Lines Thread

Posted by Dabura on 03 September 2014 - 08:03 PM

I've always liked the idea of Helm flanking Datsyuk (provided the other winger is a high-skill player, e.g. Zetterberg, with Helm being the pitbull of the three). My only issue with it - and it's a legitimate concern - is that our bottom six will be without our best bottom-six shutdown center and, arguably, our best bottom-six defensive forward, period.

 

I want three scoring lines and a fourth line that can go up against anyone, anytime, anywhere. While I like Glendening a lot, a fourth line centered by him is not going to be as good as those same two wingers centered by Helm. And while I like Andersson and would probably take him as our fourth line center over Glendening in that role...he's not Helm. And while I love Sheahan, he was seriously sheltered this past season in terms of zone starts and quality of competition, so I wouldn't necessarily want him centering our (hypothetical) killer shutdown line that can go up against anyone, anytime, anywhere.

 

Then again, Abdelkader on the fourth line and not the first = good. And Abdelkader, Miller, Glendening, Andersson, Cleary, Callahan (?), Ferraro (?) is a good pool; you could pull a better-than-average fourth line from it. And, again, I like the idea of Helm on Datsyuk's wing, even if he's out of his depth skill-wise. If he can stay healthy, he could be a respectable point-producer.

 

About our situation at center - being overloaded at the position is a good problem to have. From a tactical standpoint, I know Babcock likes for his wingers to be capable centermen, mostly for faceoff purposes. Also, there's always at least one team that's dying for a good centerman. Edmonton, for example. I like Jeff Petry...




#2535303 Lines Thread

Posted by Dabura on 01 September 2014 - 12:03 AM

Jurco scored 15 pts in his first stint, I liked him a lot, but he's far from the next coming. Tatar has been playing for this organization since 09. Nyquist since 2010. Jurco started in GR in 2012. He has more time to do. He is not more special than Tatar or Nyquist.

 

A few things:

  • Who's to say Jurco isn't the next coming (whatever that means exactly)?
  • Who's to say Jurco's not more special than Tatar or Nyquist and that ultimately he won't outshine one or both of them? Tatar played in 73 games last season and put up 39 points. Jurco - who's two years Tatar's junior (21 and 23, respectively) - did put up only 15 points last season, but he only played in 36 games. Had he played in 73 games, he likely would've been good for about 30 points, not far off from Tatar's 39.
  • Does a player have to be The Next Coming to play in our top nine?
  • A key reason why Tatar and Nyquist were held down so long: they're smallish skill players. Jurco has the makings of a top-six power forward.

Just saying. If we opened the season with Tatar-Sheahan-Jurco as our third line, I doubt many people would be saying, "Clearly Jurco needs more time on the farm." Instead, I think we say what we said about that line last season: "This line is the s***!"




#2534897 Holland signs 4 year extension with wings **MOD Warning Post 130**

Posted by Dabura on 24 August 2014 - 05:33 PM

Talk about overhype ... Nyquist could turn into a star but it's also possible him only becoming a top 6 contributor and for me that's good enough.neither Nyquist nor Tatar will turn into Z or Pasha. It's funny reading how the team keeps winning although the best they've done is barely making the playoffs and not even sniffing at the third round dice almost 6 years. The sabers will have a very dangerous team in a few years and the isles where held back by an incompetent management and a penny pinching owner. The reality is also really simple the Holland will need some homerun drafts and prepare the Wings much better for the post Z and Pasha era, than he did with the post Lidas one.

 

Are you actually serious?




#2534681 Holland signs 4 year extension with wings **MOD Warning Post 130**

Posted by Dabura on 21 August 2014 - 09:53 AM

Wanted to add something to this:

 

Do you know what a slightly healthier season and/or fewer boneheaded mistakes from Kyle Quincey and/or better luck in the shootout means? Well, for one thing, one more point in the standings gets us the Penguins in the first round. (We ended the regular season tied with the Jackets in terms of points.) I remember very cleary - we wanted the Pens, because we knew we stacked up well against them (even without Zetterberg and Ericsson), and the Pens fans didn't want the Wings, because they knew the Wings stacked up well against the Pens (even with Crosby and Malkin and Neal and Kunitz and The Mighty Matt Niskanen and Future Hall of Famer Brooks Orpik). The Pens were let off the hook and given the Jackets. Because of a tiebreaker rule. Because Johan Franzen and Joakim Andersson spent time as our top center and our heart-and-soul leader had surgery and...Jared Cowen*. (*Don't say we need an enforcer.)

 

Seven more points? We're even with ZOMG CUP CONTENDERS THE MONTREAL CANADIENS. Eight more points? We're even with ZOMG 2015 EASTERN CONFERENCE CHAMPIONS THE TAMPA BAY LIGHTNING. The Flyers? They finished a whopping one point ahead of us. The Rangers, who went to the Stanley Cup Finals? They finished a whopping two points ahead of the Flyers, three points ahead of us.

 

Zone Entries and the Red Wings [Winging It In Motown]

 

We've noted here before that whenever somebody gets to play with Tatar or Nyquist, they get a notable bump in possession. In this sample of data, the Wings generated .57 shots per Nyquist entry (whether by dump or carry), while they generated just .44 shots for every Joakim Andersson entry. Maybe that doesn't sound like a lot, but let's project that over the course of a full season. Nyquist was on pace for about 400 entries of any kind over the course of the season. In a world where both players had 400 entries, Nyquist's entries would be worth 52 more shots over the course of the season, or 4-5 goals. That's probably worth 1-2 points in the standings, which means the Wings play a much more beatable Pittsburgh team in round 1 instead of the Bruins.

 

So, again, something as seemingly small as Andersson playing a greatly elevated role for a game or two due to injuries - that alone was, perhaps, the difference between the Pens and Bruins in the first round. Point being, again, it's easy to say the glass is half-empty for the Wings and that they're barely a playoff team in the weak East. But I personally believe that's selling the team - and its architect - short.




#2534371 Holland signs 4 year extension with wings **MOD Warning Post 130**

Posted by Dabura on 16 August 2014 - 08:29 AM

frank, you were there this past season. The injuries were a nightmare. They won't be that bad this season. Don't say they will, because there's no way they can be. There's absolutely no way. I say that as a hockey fan, a sports fan, not just a Wings fan.

 

Do you know what a slightly healthier season and/or fewer boneheaded mistakes from Kyle Quincey and/or better luck in the shootout means? Well, for one thing, one more point in the standings gets us the Penguins in the first round. (We ended the regular season tied with the Jackets in terms of points.) I remember very cleary - we wanted the Pens, because we knew we stacked up well against them (even without Zetterberg and Ericsson), and the Pens fans didn't want the Wings, because they knew the Wings stacked up well against the Pens (even with Crosby and Malkin and Neal and Kunitz and The Mighty Matt Niskanen and Future Hall of Famer Brooks Orpik). The Pens were let off the hook and given the Jackets. Because of a tiebreaker rule. Because Johan Franzen and Joakim Andersson spent time as our top center and our heart-and-soul leader had surgery and...Jared Cowen*. (*Don't say we need an enforcer.)

 

Seven more points? We're even with ZOMG CUP CONTENDERS THE MONTREAL CANADIENS. Eight more points? We're even with ZOMG 2015 EASTERN CONFERENCE CHAMPIONS THE TAMPA BAY LIGHTNING. The Flyers? They finished a whopping one point ahead of us. The Rangers, who went to the Stanley Cup Finals? They finished a whopping two points ahead of the Flyers, three points ahead of us.

 

Look, I get it. We're the Red Wings and the Red Wings are Cup-or-bust, no excuses. But this is our first real protracted dose of Adversity in two decades, and we're still right there, knocking on the door. It's really easy to say the glass is half-empty for the Wings, I know this better than most here. I registered here in 2004 and I've been complaining ever since. I could make - and have made, countless times - a really compelling case for why Ken Holland should be fired. But, at the end of the day? If I'm being honest and objective? If I'm looking at what I think is the bigger picture, the bigger plan? I give Ken Holland credit. I think he's doing the right thing, for the most part.

 

If any GM in this league has earned the benefit of the doubt, it's probably Holland. He knows success. Chicago and Los Angeles win two Cups and everyone's talking like they're the greatest teams imaginable. The Wings were contenders for longer than some of the people on these boards have been alive. We came soul-crushingly close to winning back-to-back Cups in '09. We probably should've won it all in '07. We beat the Ducks and had the aforementioned Blackhawks on the ropes in 2013.

 

We have three or four years to win one last Cup for Datsyuk. With Zetterberg, Kronwall, Franzen, Nyquist, Tatar, Sheahan, Jurco, Mantha, Pulkkinen, Athanasiou, Sproul, et al. in the system, I'm liking our chances. I'm not just saying that. I think about this stuff every day. I obsess over this stuff. I definitely have my problems with Ken Holland's decision-making. I definitely have my concerns. I definitely don't like seeing the Wings as anything short of serious contenders. But in due time we're going to be looking back on all this and laughing. I believe that.




#2534367 Holland signs 4 year extension with wings **MOD Warning Post 130**

Posted by Dabura on 16 August 2014 - 02:10 AM

Honestly a lot of people thought Kopitar would be leading the way. He was drafted #11 overall and was ranked the #1 European player.

 

That 2009 roster had Kopi, Brown, Doughty, J. Johnson, Wayne Simmonds, and Jonathan Quick.  They were a talented, but crazy young team.  Brown was the oldest of that group at 23.  Doughty was 18.  Johnson was 21. Quick was 22.  I don't know a ton about the Wings prospects but I'm pretty sure they don't compare to that group. 

 

Add to that a handful of solid vets on the team.  O'Donnell, Stoll, Greene, Williams. They added Scuderi the next season. I don't know that anyone would've guessed the two Cups, but they had all the makings of becoming a great team very soon.

 

Sorry. You should pick a team that isn't my second favorite and I swear I'll keep my mouth shut. :P

 

Ha! I knew you'd respond!

 

I've been low on sleep the past couple days and as result I haven't been communicating my ideas very well.

 

The Kings had a very strong foundation set in 2009; most of the key players on the Cup team were already there on the night of that Lidstrom game. About Kopitar specifically - I remember thinking at some point in late 2009 (around the time of this game, actually) that he looked a lot like a younger, bigger Zetterberg. Everyone knew he was special. And, hell, I'm actually one of those people who hates when people say the Kings won the Cup as an 8th seed and so all you have to do is get into the dance and anything can happen.

 

But - and maybe this doesn't apply to Kings fans - I don't remember many people saying, "The Kings willl be dynasty-good in a few years," back in 2009. That's all I was really saying.

 

As for our prospects - I'm no professional scout or expert judge of talent or Hockey Insider, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night like to think I know my Wings prospects. Not puffing my chest, just saying I don't get all my learnin' from Hockey's Future. I really, truly believe we can be a contender in two or three years, if we play our cards the right way.


I don't care if we have the best or worst prospect pool or not. I like most people care about winning now and in the future.

 

*sigh*




#2534353 Holland signs 4 year extension with wings **MOD Warning Post 130**

Posted by Dabura on 15 August 2014 - 08:43 PM

Can't believe that farm thing everyone knows not every prospect will turn out in a great way.

 

Straw man argument. I'm not saying every prospect will turn out in a great way. I'm saying I believe we have what we need to complement the existing core and win one more Cup with Datsyuk. Beyond that, it's truly anyone's guess.




#2534328 Holland signs 4 year extension with wings **MOD Warning Post 130**

Posted by Dabura on 15 August 2014 - 05:21 PM

My big problem is that even if the Wings are a couple key pieces away from a serious Cup run, Holland isn't landing them and is content to sign some aging vet (and likely former Wing) to fill that hole.  The Nyquist situation was absolutely ridiculously and hurt the team.

 

I'm with you on this, 100%. I'm just saying: if we're talking about Lidstrom being a guy you can't replace and that fact meaning the entire team had to be re-evaluated and whatnot...I think Holland's done what he should've done, which is focus on the farm instead of becoming Paul Holmgren. Not that it's "draft and develop or become Paul Holmgren." But you know what I'm saying. I think Holland's walked a pretty fine line between trying to make immediate improvements and trying to re-stock mostly empty cupboards.

 

I normally don't put much stock in futures, but I'm very, very high on what we have in the pipeline, largely because I think our player development is second-to-none.




#2534254 Holland signs 4 year extension with wings **MOD Warning Post 130**

Posted by Dabura on 14 August 2014 - 01:16 PM

And Holland should have been working on a transition plan for Lidstrom's retirement for years.  Him participating in the ridiculous Suter sweepstakes was a pretty good indication that he didn't have one.  The reality is you don't replace Nick Lidstrom.  You have to reevaluate and restructure the entire team.  Holland keeps making moves like it's 2008.

 

I dunno, harold. I think over the course of this five year drought we've always been a couple key pieces away from seriously competing for the Cup. At the same time, our prospect cupboards were empty, and the brain trust has done a really good job of re-stocking. Right now we have one of the better prospect pools in the league, and I think we're still just a couple key pieces away from being a serious contender, because we still have Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Kronwall, Franzen. I think that's rebuilding on the fly. Over the course of a few years you remain competitive, maybe trying for a UFA home run here and there - but the focus is on keeping the competitive core while building up a solid stable of very promising young players that will hopefully complement that core and one day take over. Nyquist, Tatar, Sheahan, Jurco have broken through, Smith and DeKeyser should take big steps forward this season, and we're also looking at four or five very good D prospects waiting in the wings, Anthony Mantha being no more than a year away, and our goalie of the future spending his final season as a Griffin.

 

I (want to) believe Ken Holland has been doing what he's been doing for good reason and that the past few years of "futility" are going to pay off in a big way.




#2534250 Holland signs 4 year extension with wings **MOD Warning Post 130**

Posted by Dabura on 14 August 2014 - 12:42 PM

I'm ok with this.