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Packer487

Member Since 11 Jun 2002
Offline Last Active Aug 07 2011 02:05 AM
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#2200781 Would We Have Won In 2002 If ...

Posted by Packer487 on 24 July 2011 - 07:06 PM

Hasek had six shutouts in that postseason and put up a brick wall in back-to-back games when we were facing elimination against our arch-rival and their legendary goalie.

There's honestly no way to know for sure. The 02 team was the best of our recent Cup teams, but the 02 Avs were probably the best team we faced during any of those four playoff runs, no?

I don't think we win that Cup without Hasek. If you put 08 Osgood on that team, we win it. If you put 02 Osgood on that team, I really don't think we do. There's a reason they dumped Osgood and gave up a pretty darn good player and a high draft pick to go get Hasek. He delivered.


#2200677 Osgood should(n't) be included in the HoF...

Posted by Packer487 on 24 July 2011 - 01:53 AM

The numbers say absolutely, but I vote no. Full disclosure: Never liked the guy in his first stint with the Wings. He won me over to a point with his play in the 08 playoffs--he was fantastic. I respect the way that he stuck with it and ultimately had a triumphant return in Detroit. It's pretty impressive to have the two best seasons of your career more than a decade apart. Quite honestly, had Detroit won Game 7 against the Pens in 09, there's no argument against putting him in. Maybe that's unfair to hang so much on one game, but three Cups as a starter and top 10 in wins has to get you in, regardless of how good the team you played on was. I'd put him in if for no other reason than keeping Cindy's name off the Cup.

But there are a couple of reasons I vote no, and they don't have anything to do with the lame "It was just the team" argument.

1) I just can't see putting a guy in the HHOF who had 2 or 3 years tops where he could be considered a top-5 goalie in the league. 95-96 and 07-08. It's pretty remarkable that he did it more than a decade apart, but that's really it. I'm sure people could make a case for another season or two, and that's fine, but I feel the HHOF should be for the elite. He got to that level for a couple of seasons, but certainly didn't sustain it for any amount of time.

2) Moreso, though, I just keep coming back to this. If you consider him a HHOFer, then the story goes like this: The Red Wings had a 28 year old future Hall of Famer. When a 36(ish)-year-old future Hall of Famer in Dominik Hasek came on the market the Wings couldn't jump on him fast enough. So then they had a 28-year-old future HOFer that was available. Surely teams would fall over themselves lining up and Detroit would get a nice return? Didn't happen. We got nothing in return.

What happened after that? (And I'm trying to be as balanced as possible with these evaluations)

01-02: Good season for the Islanders
02-03: Save % below .900. Bad.
03-04: Really good season for the Blues.
05-06: Save % below .900 for the Wings. Bad.
06-07: Meh. Pretty good numbers, but didn't play much.
07-08: Fantastic season. I'd probably argue that it was the best year of his career.
08-09: Career worst in GAA. Career low in Save %. Great run in the playoffs.
09-10: Below .500, a 3+ GAA, sub 89 save percentage. Didn't play a ton, but ugh.
10-11: Barely played, nothing special.

So you've got three really good seasons over the last decade of his career, a couple with a lack of games played, and 2-3 that were somewhere between subpar and awful. I don't think anyone would've argued back in 01 that he was on his way to the HHOF and when you look at it, he really didn't help the resume all that much once he left. The Cup was huge, but he didn't have himself a great decade there...

He was a good goalie, but I think the HHOF should be for the best of the best. There's what? 30 players in there who primarily played goalie? The win total puts him there, but I just don't think you can make a case for him as one of the 30 best netminders to ever play. I'd say about 1990 is when I can really start to remember watching hockey, which means right now there are 3 goalies that I've seen play in the HHOF. Roy, Fuhr, Belfour. We know Hasek and Brodeur are locks. I can't put Osgood up there with those guys. Those were the guys you feared going up against. I don't think Osgood ever got to that point, even though he had some great years and finished off a couple of them with Cup wins. But the one Vezina nomination, and the 3 All-Star games (two that he played in) are kind of glaring. Also, maybe it doesn't mean much, but the lack of any international play doesn't help. Really good at times, but not elite.

Is it possible for someone to simultaneously be one of the most overrated and underrated/underappreciated players in history? I do think that there are groups of Wings fans that drastically overrate him. At the same time, I think there's a much larger group of people who simply write off his successes to the team in front of him, which is a mistake, especially after seeing what he did in 08.

It just seems like there's a pretty high standard for goalies. I don't consider him a HHOFer, but that doesn't diminish what he accomplished in his career one bit.

Wow, that post got really long in a hurry. It's been awhile!