Like when? Kronwall is one of the hardest hitters in the league, but I can't remember the last time this had an appreciable effect upon anything but the crowd and the guy who got hit.
I hope you really don't think that a big hit or a big fight doesn't spark a team or really have an effect. Besides if you are correct and all it does is get the crowd fired up...do you not agree that even having a crowd behind you all fired up helps a team? Or is it all these years when they rank hardest barns to play at just fluff and it means nothing?
Watch him carefully. We spend all our time chasing the puck in our zone when he is on the ice. This guy no longer helps the Wings as a player. He needs to hang them up.
So last night that had nothing to do with the fact that he was on a line with the great Cleary and young pup Sheahan? I would take Bert and what he brings over cleary,sammy,eavs,emmerton...any day. It's preseason.
I think stick swinging is somdthing that shouldnt be tolerated. Kessel deserves 10-15 games.
Listen...The first one I can sort of understand SORT OF...but when Scott was engaged with the other players that one is the one I didn't like then the spear at the end. Kessel is going to poke the bear like that then he needs to deal with the consequences of his actions.
I agree it was a mismatch but Tropp chose to drop the gloves. He could've just as easily skated away or given a little slash and moved on with the play. If Scott had a problem with it he should've settled with Devane.
Well I'm sure with Scott it was "you go after my small skilled guys i'm going after yours."
Good lord, if you recognize that it's a quote from a movie (one of my favorites) then you also know the context. I was trying to make a joke about you seeming so worked up about this, not calling you a name. If I weren't so lazy I'm sure there's a pic or gif of it somewhere. I apologize if you took it personally. I just don't see why your posts seem so angry.
And I'm not sure who's making Kessel out to be a saint. He did give several two handed slashes to a guy. I didn't think I needed to state that he wasn't a saint. But if a goon like Scott came after Zetterberg or Datsyuk I'd be fine if they responded in exactly the same way.
I don't disagree that people would be going nuts in this thread if it were Crosby. But people also have an irrational hate for Crosby here and look for any opportunity to express it. That's why I prefer to consider how I would feel if a Wings player did what Kessel did. And I'd be fine with it.
Frankly I do think Scott should be suspended and Rolston should be fined. He sent out his goon to start something. Carlyle responded by putting out the least confrontational lineup he could've picked and Scott went after Kessel anyway.
But you are forgetting why Scott even came out after Kessel. You keep running your mouth calling out a Goon he will at some point come out. And that's what happened. That's the difference with players Like Dat's When is the last time you seen him chirping are a goon? The code I'm sure for the skilled guys as well is don't poke the bear unless you want to "get got" Scott never even was able to get him but Kessel sure did land several slashes. And then when Kessel's team mates jumped on Scott that sure didn't stop Kessel from still hacking away.
There was no fighter on the ice for Toronto. The forwards were Ashton, Bozak, and Kessel. Who exactly should have dropped their gloves and fought Scott when he elected to jump Kessel? What good would it have done for them to go after him once he got out of the penalty box and Kessel had has his ass kicked and potentially been hurt?
This isn't like when Maguire jumped Yzerman and Probert was right there to get instant vengeance. It's all well and good to say "fighters fight fighters" but that's not how the situation developed. Kessel was entitled to use a force multiplier to defend himself.
Kessel apparently thinks he is a fighter he dropped his gloves and fought.
Going back to Crosby. I have seen threads go for days talking about how Crosby was checked or ran hard, some even be a bit on the excessive side, and then the only thing he can do is a slash back because Crosby is no where near a fighter and he got crucified for it on here.
Now imagine it were Datsyuk
Just like Franzine said
"Kessel's first slash: admirable
Further slashes/spears: unnecessary but understandable"
I don't have to even try because I know Dats wouldn't do a d*ck move running his mouth then when scott drops his gloves to shut him up he starts slashing like that.
You guys have lost it. Neither Dats or Z would of started it like Kessel did so that is a non factor. Kessel wants to run his mouth and do what he did without having anything kind of repercussions? Come on you guys if Crosby was doing this you all would be calling for his head and he is one of the greatest skilled players in the game now and is no where near a fighter. I think Kessel did a pretty pricky move by slashing scott about 10 times while scott was engaged with someone else. Again if it were Crosby I think things would be a bit different in this thread.
Regarding the inevitable fighting discussion, I think there's a distinction to be made between preventing all out cheapshots a la Matt Cooke, and being a deterrent to guys running around and agitating all game without having to answer for it. One example that comes to mind is when Bertuzzi fought Shane O'Brien twice in the same game against the Predators a couple seasons ago.
They were running the Wings all game. After that, not so much. Having a guy that plays 6 minutes a night to fight isn't as much of a deterrent anymore, but if you have someone playing fairly regularly who's also willing to drop the gloves, I think that absolutely can be a deterrent. Many times I've seen an agitator throttle back a little bit after the prospect of getting punched in the face becomes a real threat. It shows you won't be pushed around, and no one likes getting punched in the face.
Some thoughts from Wings players and coach after that Predators game, which I think explains the concept well.
I think staged fights are mostly garbage. A side spectacle by enforcers who usually don't have much else to offer. But players sticking up for themselves and keeping from getting run, or the "keeping the flies off" as Babcock puts it, yes please.
That being said, I don't think Tootoo provides a ton of deterrent. He plays such a limited role on the team, I'm guessing because when he's most effective hitting and agitating is also when he's least effective defensively. And while he's a good fighter given his size, I don't think he puts the fear into many people, other than being afraid he'll suckerpunch you.
Your feelings towards tootoo have not changed since he was on nashville example what was bolded. Did he sucker anyone while playing with the wings so far? so you saying tootoo is pretty much worthless I feel you are not giving him a fair shake and really seeing what he brings and how he could help in games like the chicago series where the wings started to get bullied around because no one wanted to stand up. Tootoo played with a ton of heart every shift out there and if you and others didn't see that I'm not sure what else to say. He went non stop every shift hitting everything trying to score..trying to make plays. I compare him to Helm with his heart of the game. Like a lion. Of course he doesn't have helms skill really but I would take 100 players like that over players like miller,eaves or emmerton. There were a ton of times I didn't even know Miller or Emmerton was even on the ice. When Tootoo is out there everyone on the ice and in the stands knows he is there.
Jordin Tootoo playing would have made absolutely no bearing on the Red Wings finishing out the Blackhawks. Physicality was not a factor whatsoever. Chicago had superior skill and depth. This is the same Blackhawks team that finished last in the NHL in hits and somehow found a way to beat the much bigger and more physical Bruins.
I'm all for keeping Tootoo around during the regular season, but let's not pretend he's some game-changing playoff performer that would have gotten the Red Wings past the Blackhawks.
And you would know this how? How can you say he would not have any bearing on the outcome....why change something that worked so well right. Yeah I said he was some superman playoff game changer. Lets not pretend that it wouldn't of had any effect either how about that. Some of you must have forgotten how Shaw and Bickell were left untouched when they were skating around having their way with the wings. I'm sorry to burst your bubble cause you sound pretty sure of yourself but physicality with no answer back from the wings had a lot to do with it...not all of it but had a lot. When the hawks turned it on physically and they saw that they could get away with it thats when the tide turned.