Look man, I figured you'd get mad. Sorry, but your ideas just aren't realistic. If that's what YOU want, great. But if this thread goes anywhere I'd be willing to bet the majority of posters would not only give an emphatic NO to the idea of trading 2 1st round picks in any one deal, let alone for a third line center. I don't believe Tallon will get that, let alone your type deal, from anyone for Weiss. He's just simply not worth it. As a note, I've heard Weiss's name in rumours too, wasn't saying he wouldn't be dealt.
Campoli is an offensive minded 5th or 6th d-man on this team. Not worth a 2nd. Carkner would cost less, or the same (not a 2nd) and bring something we don't have.
I hold true to that, if we get nothing else at the deadline, we will most likely aquire a goaltender.
Edit: If we trade 2, 1st round picks in any deal it will almost certainly be/should be towards Nick's replacemant.
As well, I think FLA's trade block looks like: McCabe, Olesz, Vokoun, Clemmanson, Stillman, Weiss.
That commercial is certainly suspect. It's also curious that of all our players, Jimmy would have a commercial.
Here's my beef, we have been trashing Howard the last two months. With more than one member essentially calling for his head. Jimmy is not playing great, that's for sure. Now the "Osgood is going to save the world" posters ar coming out. None of our goalies have been exceptional or game-stealing this year. Can we please give this kid a break. The Red Wings have almost never played in front of Howard the kind of defensive hockey that they're capable of. Howard didn't play in '08 when we iced the best team I've ever seen. But, Howard showed that he is capable of stealing games and carrying this team during a season where we seen more adversity than we have in 15 years. He let in some soft goals in the playoffs, but terrible officiating and inconsistant play cost us more. He started this year strong but has been inconsistent since. If the playoffs started today, I would not be comfortable with Howard as our starter, i might even give JMac the nod. That said, Howard has the highest GAA of any goalie over the last few seasons that's played a significant number of games for the Wings...except for OSGOOD! Howard, at very least, has been a decent/adequate starter, while Osgood has made a career out of being a DECENT goalie.
Osgood is has a long history of giving up the untimely and soft goals that Howard is getting flack for, as well as recently giving up goals in which he has seemed to forget where he's even suppossed to be in the net positionally. While Ozzie has had playoff success (with 08 and 09 possibly being the best he's ever played), I personally can count the number of times that he has undeniably "stolen" games, on one hand. Last year, I watched Howard play Hart Trophy hockey for three months while we iced the Grand Rapids Griffins. He has been replaced before, arguably because he isn't/wasn't a frontline starter. His best numbers/best season were in a season where our defence was the best I've ever seen and he only played half the games.
On top of all this, until late last season when he apparently concedied to the fact that it wasn't doing him any good, he openly complained to the media about how his play wasn't his fault. Whether it was his defence not playing well, not getting enough games in a row, or Babcock's personal mission to destroy his career and confidance (ala Mike Commodore), he just wouldn't take responsibility. That's un-Red Wing like, and I'd bet if he wasn't Chris Osgood, because of his play and attitude he would have been gone already.
Ozzie has gave us some great memories and deserves his place in Wings history. I don't hate Osgood, I just don't have the same unrealistic view of what he is as a goaltender as some. I believe it should be a certainty, with his level of play and recent injury, that he does not start in the playoffs. Going by the Nabokov saga and Holland's pedigree, I imagine he agrees. My point is, judging by what we've seen of Howard so far in his career, he has a good chance of being a decent/adequate goalie in the mode of LGW's favorite 1B goalie and he is as good of a decision for the playoffs as an aging, hurt, and inconsistant Chris Osgood. All I'm calling for is a little more patience with Jimmy and some concession to the fact that Osgood isn't the answer this year either.
Note: Here's to hoping McCullom or Mrazek turn out to be bonafide big time goalies.
It's like my Sakic comment above. I think Sakic got a penalty, for tripping, but only after he essentially butt-ended, interfered with, then literally held Yzerman with his arm, before Yzerman fell. The penalty's weren't really called unless the transgression was pretty blatent. Lots of hooking and holding.
I decided to pull out the dvd of the game, watching it again. Here are some of my observations of a great hockey game...
Pushor vs. Severyn - Pushor has no idea what he's doing. Severyn starts it but Jamie doesn't get much but thrown to the ice.
Sakic butt ends and holds Yzerman blatently then trips him...old time hockey?
Federov is on defence. He goes end to end like his first name's Bobby. Oh, and he stands out kinda like Datsyuk does now, its wild to see these guys in their primes again.
Valerie Kamensky scores the first goal. Beautiful, top shelf one-timer off the draw.
A big scrum a few minutes later leads to a tussle between Maltby and Corbet. Maltby was theoretically 'fighting'...weird. The highlight: Murphy and Kieth Jones wrestling a bit. FSN vs Versus!
Apparently Colorado had won the last four And seven of nine.
The guy doing the game with Mickey on PASS sports is annoying.
Almost all of our players could hit and fight. Konstantinov, Pushor, Shanahan, Ward, Knuble, LaPointe, McCarty, Maltby...
Knuble's 1st NHL game.
Then IT happens...
I'm still blown away that Forsberg/Larionov sets it off. The play by play guy is talking like its no big deal throughout. Mickey hasn't said anything halfway through, wth. McCarty knees Lemieux in the head when he's on the boards. Vernon/Roy is vicious. I love the off their feet hit between Shanahan and Roy. Kamensky and Lidstrom had each other, never knew that.
Marc Crawford looks like he's 27. Vernon's helmet is classic.
Like I said, I understand Nabby not wanting to play there, but this isn't Snow just doing this to screw him over. Their goaltending situation is bad. They basically have Dipietro who is a china doll, a shaky minor leaguer, and a young prospect. They don't want to throw the prospect and have him get shelled on a crappy team.
Dipietro will very likely get injured again in some way, and there is still almost a half a season left to play. No, they're not going to make the playoffs, but as GM I get that he wants to at least ice a competitive team so the fans that do come have something to watch.
Holland likely made this move because of Osgood's injury and Jimmy's less than stellar play. So he picks up a solid goalie at bargain basement prices. That's pretty much the same reasons Snow claimed him, minus the playoff situation. Roloson was a salary dump, but by claiming Nabby Snow just replaced him with a comparable goaltender but significantly cheaper. And unless Jimmy started sucking, he's the starting goaltender here in Detroit, but Nabokov sounds almost as if he expected to be the starter. He'd very likely be riding the pine here come playoff time.
Sucks for Nabokov, but Snow is doing this for reasons other than to screw with his career, and it's allowed in the rules.
Here's my problem, because obviously Snow did nothing wrong in terms of the rules
Hockey, just like any other business, has "guidelines" apart from the rules. If you want to be a well respected franchise where players will want to come and play their best, you have to act a certain way in business, considering all sides of a matter...
1. Players who sign a deal with a contender, halfway through the NHL season, who are 35 plus years old and haven't won a cup, probably don't want to play on a team that has already forfieted their season, traded veterans, been a perennial bottom feeder, continuesly ran into the ground, and is essentially certain to miss the playoffs. a. Considering above, player may not report when claimed. b. By not reporting, he makes said team look even worse in the media.
2. By claiming said player, you may: Instantly create an unhealthy relationship with the player, agent, agents other clients, signing team, or all. (Very much like Offer Sheets for RFA's)
3. By doing so you may: Confirm to the entire NHL community (again), on a large media scale mind you, exactly what kind of short sighted hockey operations decisions (Yashin trade and signing and releasing, Luongo trade, DiPietro signing, etc.) got you to be in the predicament you're in to begin with. a. Repercussions include, but not limited to: even less ticket sales, corporate sponsership, or new fans.
Of course we don't expect anything different from them. But that doesn't excuse Snow from a little bit of responsibility for his short sighted actions. I still blame him because its a bad PR decision that is a huge high-risk, low reward move.
Some unlearned fan somewhere is saying, "Geez, what kind of smart, successful, business and personal relations trained GM would do such a thing?" And we all laugh and shrug our shoulders, trying to make them look as big as a certain late '90's back-up goaltender from the Flyers. A 'tender who's rags to more rags story has uninspired us all and left us wishing Mike Milbury would return to bring the Isle's back to their former glory!
"I don't see why somebody who has this opportunity would not want to play and fulfill his contract. It's nuts, right. I don't understand any of it"
Uh...you really don't see why an aging goalie who wanted to make, what, who knows, could be one last run at the cup, wouldn't want to play for a team who has no chance of making the playoffs? You don't understand why he wouldn't want to leave his family and the warmth of sunny California to come to gloomy, cold ass New York to play for a team he thinks sucks and doesn't want to play for, won't make the finals, for a mere quarter mil, when dude has tens of millions already?
Maybe Wang was going to interview the aging goalie to replace Snow as GM. Nabby's got this all wrong...
Things to consider...
Kenny has some serious man love for Chris Osgood and we are a pretty upstanding organization.
I have a hard time believing Kenny is doing this knowing he has about a 3.67% chance that no one picks up Evgeni. If that were the case, he probably just nearly killed Jimmy Howard's (what I believe to be) fragile confidance. All of a sudden, in one high risk (goalie moral wise) move, Osgood probably thinks Kenny believes his season (or career) is over, Jimmy thinks he isn't/cant be THE guy, and McDonald thinks he can't even be a backup during an injury. Since we've explored most other crazy scenarios, its seems that is indeed what is happening or the other 27 teams have been told by Nabby's agent that he won't play for them.
I also think its pretty far fetched that we would negotiate with Nabby 100% for another team in hopes that they would put Johan Hedberg or some other journeyman backup on the trade block for us. NJ knows theyd have first dibs on waivers, why dont they sign him? Why go through this mess.
Who ya gonna call up? Tater? iFlip? Tardif? Klima? Kocur?
Quick! Kenny, call into 97.1! Get D-Mac back! "
Do the guys think there is an annual DL Cancun vacation this time of year? By All-Star break do they think thier wrists, hands, and ankles?
Ok guys....i have the over/under set at 3 games before Zetterberg goes down. Followed by Babcock in a freak staring accident and our video coordinater to clinical depression after replaying guys injurys over and over.
Are you serious? Please, please, please remind yourself of the stretch run last year. Where Jimmy Howard basically carried us on his back. We wouldn't have made the playoffs without him last year, chew on that. His start this year wasn't bad either...sheez.
Put Jimmy on waivers and watch the ensuing GM on GM violence. Pretty sure Leighton goes unclaimed, but either way, pretty much no one will care anyway.