Jump to content


e_prime's Photo

e_prime

Member Since 05 Sep 2005
Offline Last Active Jul 25 2014 07:27 AM
-----

#2532716 2014 Offseason League Signings and Trades

Posted by kipwinger on 21 July 2014 - 02:44 PM

I really don't get the people shaking their heads at COL in terms of dealing with O'Reilly.  Yes, he's coming off a career year, but that career year is nothing compared to the consistent years that the players earning the money he wants put up.

 

At first, I didn't understand at all how he could even have been making $6.5M, but then I remembered the offer sheet...that's how he got there to begin with.  So I decided to do a bit of checking.  I had a look at all the other players in the league with cap hits at or greater than $6.5M (he's now looking for $6.75M by the way, but my guess is that is to aim a bit high and let it come down a bit).  This is what I found:

 

26 forwards in the league at that level:

 

16 - have scored 40 or more goals or 100 or more points

4 - have scored 90 or more points

3 - have scored 80 or more points

 

That leaves the following 4 that haven't scored 40 goals or more than 80pts:

 

Toews - he has scored 34 goals and 76 pts, but I don't think we need to use stats to say that you can't compare to Toews

 

Bergeron - he's scored more than 30 goals 2 times and scored more than 60 points 5 times, 70+ points 2 times, selke winner - no comparison

 

Stastny - getting a bit more comparable, but he has scored 78 points in the NHL and another season with 70+ points as well + he signed his deal as a UFA...big difference

 

Koivu - this is the one I can't quite understand (i.e. why he's paid so much) - his stats are still better than O'Reilly's career year and he's consistently scored 20+ goals and has scored more than 70 points, but he still looks overpaid.

 

So, to me, O'Reilly and his 28 goal and 64 point career year don't seem to explain to me why he should be paid $6.5M.

 

To me it's more a matter of Colorado mishandling the situation so badly that they were put in this position in the first place.  This is exactly what happens if you try and lowball good young talent.  As a 21 year old he was putting up 50+ pts. and was one of the better defensive forwards in the league and his team wanted to hold his feet over the fire.  There had to be a better way to satisfy him AND retain his services without completely alienating the kid.  Sadly, Colorado management didn't seem up to the task. 




#2532008 Red Wings new assistant coaches

Posted by kipwinger on 14 July 2014 - 12:13 PM

I vote for CHRIS DRAPER :thumbup:

 

No thanks.  I'd prefer someone who's actually coached a single hockey game at any adult level.  Tired of this good ol boy s***.  This organization needs to start acting professionally. 




#2531716 Wings re-sign Cleary $1.5 mill + $1mill in game bonuses

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 11 July 2014 - 10:53 PM

Remember after the '13 playoffs, and even though we had just dropped a 3-1 series lead against the hawks, thinking "well at least next year we can improve by not having Cleary on the team"....

 

Does Cleary not realize that he is making everybody hate him? He could have retired after that season and been remember as a warrior and contributor for his time with the Wings.

 

Now the only thing main thing people are are going to remember about him is this f***in debacle two years in a row.

He'll be remembered as the guy who made the wings worse because he was too selfish to just hang them up.

He better hope like hell that this isn't the year they miss the playoffs because he will be the scapegoat for a LONG time (as well as Holland, he hasn't thought about his impending legacy as the guy who f***ed up the great Red Wings either)

 

Cleary is a competitor.  What made him great for those years is the same thing that makes him not want to quit now.  I can't fault a guy for wanting to play for the Red Wings for another year.  

 

If Cleary makes the team it's because the GM who gave him this contract and his coach decided he should have a spot over younger players.  That's not Cleary's fault.  It's not his responsibility to decline a job with the Red Wings because the GM can no longer evaluate talent effectively. 

 

I don't think he should've been offered a contract but if the Wings make the playoffs or not, I blame Cleary for nothing.  




#2531711 Wings re-sign Cleary $1.5 mill + $1mill in game bonuses

Posted by wings87 on 11 July 2014 - 10:19 PM

Remember after the '13 playoffs, and even though we had just dropped a 3-1 series lead against the hawks, thinking "well at least next year we can improve by not having Cleary on the team"....
 
Does Cleary not realize that he is making everybody hate him? He could have retired after that season and been remember as a warrior and contributor for his time with the Wings.
 
Now the only thing main thing people are are going to remember about him is this f***in debacle two years in a row.
He'll be remembered as the guy who made the wings worse because he was too selfish to just hang them up.
He better hope like hell that this isn't the year they miss the playoffs because he will be the scapegoat for a LONG time (as well as Holland, he hasn't thought about his impending legacy as the guy who f***ed up the great Red Wings either)


I don't hate Cleary as much as I hate Holland for making me hate a player I used to really like.


#2531244 Wings re-sign Cleary $1.5 mill + $1mill in game bonuses

Posted by marcaractac on 10 July 2014 - 05:31 PM

 

Well, that's wonderful for you.

 

I agree, that generally there's a time and a place for such restraint and perspective.

 

And then there's the day that Ken Holland signed Dan Cleary again.

 

If ever there was a day to blow off some steam, it's today...

 

Too be fair, people have been blowing off steam for the past 10 days  :lol:




#2530985 Red Wings Target Mike Green

Posted by kipwinger on 10 July 2014 - 09:28 AM

What should Tatar or jurco be traded for? Stamkos? Trading Tatar for a guy like green makes sense and is a fair trade, like it or not.

 

A top 4 D isn't peanuts. Fans have a highly inflated value of the Wings' prospects and young players. Tatar is a good young scoring winger, more like Kozlov than Datsyuk. Mantha hasn't played a game of pro hockey but people are acting like he's Brendan Shanahan part 2.

 

A top four defenseman under contract?  Sure.  I'd trade almost any of our young guns in a package for Yandle.  He's that good AND under contract.  But losing a guy as good as Jurco or Tatar for a rental is dumb.  How much developmental time and resources go into each prospect?  A lot.  And the absolute best you can hope for is that they turn into top six forwards or top four defenseman.  In Tatar, Nyquist, and Jurco, your best case scenario has come true...and it's DEFINITELY not good value to throw that away for a guy who (if recent history is any indication) isn't going to help you compete for a Cup and probably isn't going to re-sign with your team at the end of the year.




#2530939 Red Wings Target Mike Green

Posted by kipwinger on 09 July 2014 - 10:20 PM

I think it's kind of funny that we have one thread blasting Holland for his lack of moves and "we like our team" mentality, and here we have everyone making a commotion about how they couldn't bear to see us lose ANY of our up and coming young players in an actual move.

 

I don't think anybody is saying that all the young guys are untouchable.  But rather that they shouldn't be traded for peanuts.  Which should be obvious, except that it isn't to some folks. 




#2530866 Kane & Toews Sign Identical 8-year, $10.5M AAV Extensions

Posted by kipwinger on 09 July 2014 - 03:19 PM

Kane's gonna get soooooooooooooo wasted tonight!  PARTY!!!! WOOOO!




#2530864 Red Wings Target Mike Green

Posted by kipwinger on 09 July 2014 - 03:17 PM

I definitely don't think that Garrison is as good as Green, and Garrison is under contract, but the two scenarios would be similar in that they're both cap dumps of offensive defensemen in the 30-40 pts. range.  So starting with something similar is not a bad idea.  If Garrison was worth a second then Detroit should probably start with a 2nd plus a little more and go from there.  All this talk about starting with Tatar or Jurco is nuts. 




#2530788 2014 Offseason League Signings and Trades

Posted by Son of a Wing on 09 July 2014 - 12:02 PM

Sorry but Volchenkov is NOT better than Quincey.  Some peoples hatred is blinding...

 

He's approaching his mid-30s with significant injury history from making his living blocking shots and playing an abrasive style with ZERO offensive upside.

 

It's like he fills all our needs!  :confused:




#2530701 Red Wings Target Mike Green

Posted by brett on 08 July 2014 - 07:15 PM

if we have to give up a guy like tatar or nyquist let it be for a guy like yandle or bogo




#2529967 Next Seasons Needs/Team Future

Posted by rick zombo on 04 July 2014 - 01:15 PM

 

Lemme guess, he "kicked some tires" but "didn't like the prices" and he "likes our team"?  BARF.

 

OR, he didn't want to trade Mantha + Jurco + Sproul + 1st for Yandle or Green.

 

See, I can be over-zealous too.

 

LOOK AT MEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1




#2529418 Well...at least we're not Philadelphia. Giroux Arrested.

Posted by BottleOfSmoke on 02 July 2014 - 11:24 AM

:lol:

Edit: I was laughing so hard I had some premature postage. Giroux was just trying to congratulate the officer BoS style--with butt pats!


#2529399 Well...at least we're not Philadelphia. Giroux Arrested.

Posted by number9 on 02 July 2014 - 10:53 AM

Hahaha Claude took the term the town of brotherly love a little too seriously
Richards and and Carter are proud


#2529858 Next Seasons Needs/Team Future

Posted by Dabura on 03 July 2014 - 06:00 PM

Honestly, let's say they move Kindl for a pick, then bring up one of the kids. I wouldn't want one of those defensive prospects to be the 7th guy, but I would like them to swap into that #6 spot. I really think the defense should be more about balance, and not pairings based on "skill" or cap hit. As much as I hate the Quincey signing, it wouldn't be a total loss if we started the year with something along the lines of:

Kronwall-Smith
DeKeyser-Quincey
Ericsson-Sproul/Marchenko
Lashoff

I think it's more about balance than anything. I know some would see Ericsson on the "3rd pairing" as a demotion, but really the minutes played are getting closer and closer for various defense cores. In my estimation, these pairings would be a better indicator of Smith's upside, and give those younger prospects a stable partner in Ericsson.

 

Yeah, I think Kindl should be moved and the kids should get to fight over that 6D spot, with the understanding that each of them will likely get a look in that role at some point in the season and that the inevitable injuries could blow things wide open. I might even try Marchenko with Kronwall. I like Smith with Kronwall, but we're basing that on a small sample size. Can Smith go up against the opposition's best every night, all season long? (Not that I'm sure Marchenko can. Just an idea.)

 

Ideally, Ericsson is on the second or third pairing. That's just the kind of defenseman he is. I do like his size for our top four, though, and his $4.25M cap hit would, at some point, have the kids thinking, "Well s***, if being a steady #5 can get me that much..."

 

I'm not a fan of Green but you make a convincing argument.  Injuries would be my main concern with him, especially after last season. 

 

As much grief as Rafalski got for his defense the last couple years his puck movement, especially his stretch pass, was 2nd only to Lidstrom for keeping things moving forward. A couple long bomb passes from Rafalski would keep the forecheckers honest. 

 

Even with Green's defensive shortcomings, maybe a real puckmover can help keep the Wings from getting pinned in their own end so often.

 

BoG7csAIcAA3SWP.jpg

 

That's Dave Tippett, but it could just as easily be Mike Babcock or Darryl Sutter. It's the new school, popularized by the Wings teams of '08 and '09 and, more recently, the Kings. When someone asks Darryl Sutter what it is about his team that makes them so good defensively, and he deadpans that it's easy when your team is never forced to defend, he's not joking. And he's right. Erik Karlsson isn't a stud in his end, but there's more to being a defenseman than defending. P.K. Subban isn't a stud in his end, but there's more to being a defenseman than defending. Datsyuk isn't a 50-goal scorer, but there's more to being an elite 1C than scoring goals.

 

When our top three was Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, we didn't spend time in our end and therefore never had to defend. And it wasn't just that we'd "get the puck out." The second we regained possession (i.e. pretty much any time we had the puck, anywhere on the ice), we were thinking attack. We moved northward with poise and purpose and precision and propulsive, predatory intent. It wasn't "We escaped from our zone!" It was "Here comes the boom." Our breakouts, our rushes, our transition game - everything was about being on the offensive.

 

That was the foundation of our game. That was the key to our dominance. That was Red Wings hockey. We lost it, we haven't meaningfully addressed the loss, and now, accordingly, we're losers. Mike Green, while maybe not ideal, would be a step in the right direction. He'd give us something we don't have and sorely need. Saying he can't play defense is missing the point. Saying Kindl can move the puck is missing the point. Saying we have some promising kids who might be top-four material in a few years is missing the point. We have three years left with Datsyuk. What's keeping us from giving him a legitimate shot at another Cup is the fact that our defense doesn't generate any offense, doesn't move the puck especially well at all.