Don't let the title confuse you. This is a Howard vs Mrazek/ trade Howard/ waive Mrazek thread
Well it should be taken to an appropriately titled thread. It's annoying how every thread turns into some s***show about the goaltending situation or Franzen. I know it's the offseason, but some people here want to discuss things besides the Wings.
What does that mean exactly? I'm not sure your post could be any more vague...
Do you not think that WiiM does a decent job with opinion pieces? or Red Wings coverage in general?
While I don't necessarily agree with the piece, I do think they do at least put some thought into their articles before posting them...
As far as Holland and this off-season goes I think he did a good job at tempering expectations through the media, while acquiring some pieces that should make a difference this season and surprisingly cutting ties with some mistakes/easy re-sign options that he would normally jump all over -- Weiss/Zidlicky.
His next "test" is going to be managing assets. Which players stay? Which players go?
Do we move some vets to make room for younger players?
This is going to determine Holland's viability as an NHL GM going forward.
Will we be able to continually "rebuild on the fly" through asset management or will we end up having to go the TANK IT route because we don't have the players or the prospects to make the moves necessary to continually reload year in and year out.
It means every wiim article I've ever read has been trash
As far as Stepan goes, it's really not too much of a gamble though. Even if he never improves, you're still getting a 50 point, top six center, who plays great defense, for the prime of his career. And you'd only be paying him about a million more than his actual value if he never improved at all. A 50 pt. guy, at Stepan's age, is generally worth 5.5 on today's market, so it's a mild overpayment if does doesn't improve, and a quality contract if he does. It's not like they're paying for potential here, he's already a very good player, they're just overpaying slightly under the assumption that he'll take the next step.
I'm always happy to slightly overpay for a good player, rather than slightly overpay for an unproven guy. The risk seems less.
Its pretty amazing how Cody Franson was all the talk for this UFA season and he still isn't signed anywhere. Is it that he wants too much money or maybe he just has a couple of teams he wants to play for and is waiting for their financials to work out to see what he can sign for? Who knows!
I know, if he wants to earn at least some money, he can come to Detroit for a 1 year $1M prove himself contract!
Yeah I've read it. Exactly which of my points do you think is... ridiculous?
Mantha's season was, perhaps, a bit disappointing. His game still needs work. But the Wings knew what they were getting when they drafted him. They knew he was going to be a bit of a project. Anyone who'd watched him play knew he was going to be a bit of a project. He was never going to make the team out of last year's camp. At most, he might've earned a couple games with the big club towards the end of the regular season. He needed to learn defense. He needed to learn how to protect the puck against men. He needed to learn how to emerge from a brutal scrum with possession of the puck. He needed to learn how to operate with much less time and space and civility than he'd enjoyed in the QMJHL. His game was weighted wildly towards the offensive side of things. That had to change in a big way, and that's not a change you make in half a season. And that's saying nothing of the broken leg.
For all these reasons and more, you can't say his season was "very, very, very disappointing." You can barely say it was disappointing. He was in for a tough season even before he'd broken his leg. All things considered, 15 goals and 33 points in 62 games, with limited power play time and third-line minutes, is a pretty good year. If the hype surrounding Mantha hadn't been so absurdly huge, no one would have a problem with his season. We'd be saying he needs another year, and that that's no big deal because it's to be expected with a 20-year-old who's never had to play defense or compete against men.
But none of that really seems to mean much to you, which I don't get. The way you see it, Mantha sucked this year, and it wasn't because of the injury, it was because he sucked. And if someone tries to "use the injury as an excuse" for his "poor play," that line of reasoning doesn't hold up, because it's "100% speculation." Even though saying the injury had nothing to do with his performance is equally speculative and, in fact, much less reasonable. Because, which sounds more plausible: that breaking his leg right before his first NHL training camp and spending the first part of his first AHL season unable to do much of anything in the way of physical conditioning A) had a significant impact on his season and should be taken into account when reviewing his season and the progress he made (or didn't make), or B) had no impact whatsoever on his season and should not be taken into account when reviewing his season and the progress he made (or didn't make)?
He needs to be better away from the puck. He needs to compete harder. He needs to improve in some key areas. No one's more aware of this than the player himself. But I don't see the need for trashing him. I'm not sure most people appreciate how tough it is to go from being a big fish in the QMJHL (which is pretty much a terrible league) to a boy among men in the AHL, especially when you were such a big fish that you were never really asked (or taught!) how to play AHL/NHL-level defense and your shifts would often stretch to 120 seconds long.
I don't see the basis for saying he sucked. I don't see how comparing his first few games as a Griffin to Tyler Bertuzzi's first few games as a Griffin really tells us anything. It's sort of like the Franzen-versus-Chris Neil thing. Franzen doesn't play with Chris Neil's "intensity" and "edge" and "physicality." But Neil doesn't have Franzen's skill, talent, skating, hockey IQ, scoring prowess, etc. Bertuzzi's game, at this time, is more complete than Mantha's. So is Landon Ferraro's. But Mantha's strengths can't be taught or instilled, while the things he needs to learn can. Same deal as Nyquist, Tatar, Pulkkinen - except, Mantha's going to become a full-time Wing at 21 or 22 years of age, versus the standard 23 or 24. Because 1) he's that talented, 2) the things he needs to work on are things that virtually all 20-year-old snipers need to work on, and 3) the Wings are the best at taking raw talent and sculpting it into a rounded NHL player.
The kid's going to be a very good NHLer. He's not a problem player. He's not lazy. He just has to learn to play a kind of game he's never really had to play, and at the highest level. It's a process. It was always going to be a process. Nothing has really changed since the moment we drafted Mantha. There was always going to be an adjustment period.
Q. You coached Anthony Mantha for a season. What is your assessment?
A. First of all, the expectation level on Anthony was too high, and in part that was his fault. When you have a career like that in juniors, the expectations are too high.
He got hurt two times during the season, and that made it difficult on him — especially at the beginning of the year, when you are establishing good habits. And then right before the playoffs, in June.
I think Anthony has a skill set that will allow him to be a great player.
I think Anthony still needs to learn to work as hard as you have to work, shift in and shift out, moving his feet, in order to utilize that skill set at the American league level and the NHL level. And it would have been impossible for him to realize he had to do that at the junior level, because he didn’t have to.
Until you’ve faced a level where you actually have to, you’re never going to make those adjustments ...
That doesn’t happen overnight …
I agree 100% with Blash. If your expectations were he was going to perform the way he did in juniors then it's your own fault for setting your own expectations that high. He had a broken leg and was injured before the playoffs. Absolutely nothing wrong with him performing at .5 PPG for his first AHL season against actual men. Patience from the Wing fanbase should be expected....
I don't disagree with your assessment at all. I agree 100% that he even looked disinterested at times, not engaged in the play. However, is it even a remote possibility that it could have been even a tiny bit to do with his injury? Is it possible that he could have had some discomfort in his right leg throughout the season? Not saying he did, but it is certainly a possibility, is it not?
That was definitely a huge knock on him in his draft year, but I watched a ton of him in the 2013-14 season in Val d'Or, and pace wasn't an issue with him that year at all in my opinion. I get that he was "a man amongst boys" down there, but he still skated circles around them offensively and got back defensively as well. I still believe with a full training camp, he will be a totally different player this coming season...
Like I said before though, I don't think anyone really disagrees that his season was a little disappointing, I just don't think it was as terrible as some people, including Devellano, make it seem...