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e_prime

Member Since 05 Sep 2005
Offline Last Active Jul 18 2016 04:13 PM
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#2682941 Revisiting the 2011 Entry Draft

Posted by Echolalia on 11 July 2016 - 09:30 PM

Prologue: There has been a lot of ongoing discussion in the 2016 entry draft thread regarding the decisions that Holland and co made or did not make.  Some folks think his moves were solid moves and will pay off in the future.  Others think that he messed up and he should have did X, Y, and Z.  The thing about decisions at the draft is none of us will definitively know the outcome of these decisions until well in the future when we can see see which prospects were home runs, which were busts, and which needed some seasoning but turned into solid acquisitions.  I don't know what the accepted timeline is to determine that, but I think by five years we will have a good idea of what kind of player we have.  We obviously can't fast forward five years to see how things turn out, but we can rewind five years and revisit what the discussions were regarding the 2011 entry draft.  I think this might be a fun thing to do annually, especially because there isn't a whole lot of other exciting things to talk about in the offseason on a hockey forum.  That means all your goofy and ridiculous comments are fair game to be quoted five years from now!

 

Anyway here are the threads for the 2011 entry draft:

 

1st round pick (24th overall): Traded to Ottawa for 35th and 48th picks

http://www.letsgowin...hl=+2011 +draft

 

2nd through 7th round picks:

http://www.letsgowin...hl=+2011 +draft

-2nd round pick (35th overall): Tomas Jurco

 

-2nd round pick (48th overall): Xavier Ouellet

 

-2nd round pick (55th overall): Ryan Sproul

 

-3rd round pick (85th overall): Alan Quine

 

-4th round pick (115th overall): Marek Tvrdon

 

-5th round pick (145th overall): Philippe Hudon

 

-6th round pick (175th overall): Richard Nedomiel

 

-7th round pick (205th overall): Alexei Marchenko

 

Some interesting observations:

One poster wanted the Wings to pick Jaime Oleksiak with our first round pick, and projected him as a top 3 NHL defensman (currently part of the Dallas Stars organization but has endlessly bounced back and forth between the AHL and the NHL).  He was picked 14th overall, well before our 24th pick, anyway.

There was lots of love for Jurco leading up to our pick (even in the first round).

Opinions were mixed regarding the Wings trading down.  Some folks thought it was smart, some folks thought we were better off using our first round pick on a player.  It caused a bit of a stir.  Today that first round pick is Tomas Jurco and Xavier Ouellete.

There was also lots of love for Joe Morrow, who ended up going to the Pens, who picked 23rd.  Hes currently a part of the Bruins organization, and has played 48 games total in the NHL, including 33 last season.

Everyone seemed to love the second round.  People were high on Jurco, Ouellete, and Sproul.  There was some hope for Saad to be drafted as well.

Some folks believed that Tvrdon and Quine were the steals of the draft.

Something I found particularly entertaining regarding that last bit:

 

It is hilarious how every draft people on here start going "OMG steal of the year hur hur hur hur" Yeah, I'll see in 5 years how these steals worked out for us.

 

Go check HFBoards right now and see who they said the steal of the draft was last year, I'll give you a hint It starts with Teemu and ends in Pulkkinen. Check out this years "steal of the draft", I'll give you a hint, his name starts with Marek and ends with Tvrdon.
 

well here we are.
 
The knuckle-draggers loved the Nedomiel pick.  He had a knack for being a tough stay and home defender, apparently, with lots of fights under his belt.
Folks didn't seem to know how to take the Marchenko pick.  Some thought it was a solid pick up considering he was highly ranked in the previous year's draft, but others thought that was a bad sign that he wasn't drafted and taken in the last round by us the following year.  There was also some question on whether he would even be interested in coming to the NHL, also.
 
Anyway, enjoy thumbing through those threads!



#2682871 Shea Weber for Pernal Karl Subban

Posted by PredsFanTheBayouState on 10 July 2016 - 08:43 PM

CmtkDfWWgAAcsCA.jpgYou can see the regret in his eyes


I see the yes,I'm finally with a team that will love me in his eyes


#2682414 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by krsmith17 on 06 July 2016 - 01:50 PM

Hahaha this is the most pointless conversation / debate ever! Not a single person supporting analytics has said that the only thing you need to judge a player is stats, but yet people that are against all of these advanced stats keep coming back and saying that you can't judge a player solely on stats... Well no s***, that's why we've said over and over again that watching is very important as well... But make no mistake, all of these stats are used to aid hockey professionals, from scouts to coaches to broadcasters to writers and so on...

Obviously there are things that these stats cannot tell you, like potential, work ethic, determination, stick handling, shooting and play-making ability, and that is why it's great that most of us are fortunate enough to be able to watch the games... However, some of these things like quality of teammates and opponents, whether a player is sheltered or not, etc, etc that people are claiming cannot be tracked through these advanced stats are flat out wrong. These are the exact types of things that are tracked through advanced stats.

I guarantee a blind person that has never watched a hockey game in his / her life, but has access to all of these advanced stats, would be able to give a better analysis on who is the top 10 players at each position than someone that only relies on watching the games... You know why? Bias. Every single person here, has a bias for or against certain players, and unless you're willing to dig deeper and rely on some of these stats to broaden your perception, you will continue to be in the dark...

Great post by the way ToastyWing. How did you come up with so much info? Was it through stats? Or are you recalling all of this information from all the games you've watched over the years?

nyquististhefuture, you're right, Hakan Andersson didn't use advanced stats when he drafted these guys, and still doesn't because most of these stats are still foreign to developmental leagues, especially in Europe. I doubt many amateur scouts use the advanced stats, but you can bet your a** every single pro scout uses at least some of them... They'd be fools not to. And as much as I love Hakan for the amazing players he's brought the Wings, for every Lidstrom, Zetterberg, Datsyuk we've been fortunate enough to have, there has been a lot more Motkov, Wikstrom, Petrasek, etc. that have been complete busts. And there's no denying that he hasn't had a pick that looks like a future hall of famer since those guys, back when he was one of the few scouts that was willing to take gambles on these European kids...


#2681960 Darren Helm re-signed: 5 years, $3.85m AAV

Posted by Echolalia on 02 July 2016 - 01:39 PM

What a joke of signing Kenny needs to go freaking idiot why are we signing D's retreads that's why we will never win anything what about Jimmy's contract no one is gonna take that abomination


You must be a man or postmenopausal because you are...




...missing some periods



Yeeeaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh!!!
😎


#2682018 Who should get A?

Posted by BottleOfSmoke on 03 July 2016 - 12:27 AM

Lol would be the worst skilled NHL captain in history probably


He'll get the C and immediately power up to Steve Yzerman Form and we'll all be sitting here looking stupid, never having known he was actually a Pokemon all along...


...or something


#2681476 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by kickazz on 01 July 2016 - 01:57 PM

More Euros than Michigan boys on the team lol

Has there EVER been less euros than Michigan boys in the last 20 years while we were winning 4 stanley cups?




#2679766 Drew Miller re-signs... 1 year deal $1.025 million

Posted by Datsyukian-Deke on 27 June 2016 - 10:46 PM

He'll be the 14th forward, in the lineup once in awhile.


Better than having Andersson in every once in awhile.


#2679765 Drew Miller re-signs... 1 year deal $1.025 million

Posted by LeftWinger on 27 June 2016 - 10:43 PM

He'll be the 14th forward, in the lineup once in awhile.


#2679726 Drew Miller re-signs... 1 year deal $1.025 million

Posted by kickazz on 27 June 2016 - 05:43 PM

They won't scratch Miller for a GR kid. Miller only recently turned 32. He'll be playing all 82 games. Will have to wait to see Betuzzi or Callahan another year I guess. Overripe to the max. Hope I'm wrong though.

Them signing him today also likely means Helm is moving on.

Silver lining in all this is Berzeench is probably crying. Which is a funny thought.


#2679701 Drew Miller re-signs... 1 year deal $1.025 million

Posted by kipwinger on 27 June 2016 - 03:24 PM

I think Miller is overrated. But I don't mind the signing. If a kid outplays him in camp, waive miller and nearly all of his contract can be stashed in the minors. If not, he's serviceable. No harm no foul on this one for me.


#2679644 Drew Miller re-signs... 1 year deal $1.025 million

Posted by NerveDamage on 27 June 2016 - 12:10 PM

E_Prime Drew Miller Stitch

Really happy to see him back, hopefully he'll make a full season appearance.




#2679222 Detroit trades Datsyuk to Arizona

Posted by F.Michael on 24 June 2016 - 09:12 PM

Just to put things into perspective here:

 

Stan Bowman gave up Teuvo Teravainen to move Bryan Bickell's contract. Ken Holland went from 16th pick to 20th pick in the draft and on top of that got a 2nd round pick to make up for the lost 3rd round pick.

 

And supposedly Ken Holland sucks and Stan Bowman is god because his father was  god. 

Had to break out my slide rule, and abacus to confirm that this is an accurate assessment.




#2679157 Detroit trades Datsyuk to Arizona

Posted by Bannedforlife on 24 June 2016 - 08:35 PM

I bet all the Holland haters will still figure out a way to give Bowman the credit for this


#2678512 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by Internet.Unknown on 21 June 2016 - 01:54 PM

Holland used to know that most prospects don't pan out so it's OK to trade them. He's forgotten that.


Lots of folks around here need to learn this lesson.


#2678371 Leafs acquire Goalie, F. Anderson from the Ducks

Posted by Euro_Twins on 20 June 2016 - 04:28 PM

Just came to post this lol