Commitment to winning or commitment to being mediocre, same difference it seems.
I want this team to commit to winning a Stanley Cup. Barely making the playoffs every year and then not going anywhere isn't success in my mind. And if the team can't realisitically compete for a cup that season, I want the team to put itself in a position to compete for it in the future. If that means cutting some veterans and letting the youth get a chance to learn the NHL game, so be it. If that means that a streak is sacrificed so the team doesn't throw away picks and prospects for bandaides, so be it. This move by Holland does not make this team a Cup contender, it makes it first round fodder, and it makes it a less viable team in the near future as well.
Yes, I think we fully understand your line of thinking. A commitment to losing now is a commitment to winning later. And, you think that automatically will turn Detroit into the new Pittsburgh and Chicago. The main problems that I have with that are that (as has been pointed out to you already), top draft picks do not always lead to Stanley Cups or even general success. There are more examples of teams that drafted high for multiple seasons and it didn't work out that well for them than the other. And, I don't think losing purposefully for any reason is respectable and I can not and will not buy into it. I don't root for my team to lose - that's what fans of the other teams do.
Posted by barabbas16
on 04 February 2014 - 11:21 PM
Wait, so you guys have problems with the play of Cleary, Samuelsson, and Bertuzzi this season. Got it. That's been made abundantly clear by a ridiculous amount of posters.
Weiss, though, it is ok for him to play like garbage. And don't give me he actually played better because he didn't. Weiss has sucked at least as badly as the rest of the players mentioned this season. He was terrible.
Weiss had a rough go of it coming off of an injury plagued season. Yeah, that's true. None of those other guys were coming off of injury plagued seasons, so that's totally different.
I get it, though.... Weiss gets the benefit of the doubt over those other guys because of all that he has given to the team in previous seasons. I mean, he contributed to a Stanley Cup victory in Detroit....
Seriously, though, can someone please explain to me this double standard?
Sorry - I know it isn't a Weiss thread. I agree that the kids are contributing better than the aforementioned veterans have this season, including Stephen Weiss (at least just as much as the others mentioned).
Posted by barabbas16
on 28 January 2014 - 11:15 PM
embarrassing affair tonight.
why couldn't Tim Thomas let in 6 against us the other night instead of tonight. ugh
Well, he did let in 4 against us. Gustavsson (and/or the D depending on your opinion) just didn't hold up his part of the bargain...... which is still better than tonight, when no one in red and white held up their end.
Posted by barabbas16
on 28 January 2014 - 09:47 PM
Absolutely they do. It shows that you're pissed off that the guys you're playing are kicking your ass all over the rink and on the score board. The Wings lose like a bunch of wimps, they take it lying down. It doesn't hurt anything to show some goddamn moxie and be pissed off that you're losing an important game to a conference rival that is going to take an important 2 points from you. And I'm sure someone will say "Well they should be focused on scoring goals... not starting scrums/fights" Well, clearly they aren't doing a good job at the whole scoring goals thing, so do something! Don't roll over and die like they do.
....except that the only guys they should really be upset with are the ones wearing the same color jersey.
Scrum/fight because of some dirty play or something happens? Sure, stand up for your team mate. Respectable.
Scrum/fight because you're getting beat because the other team is better at playing hockey than you are? No. That makes you the kid that throws the chess board because he can't figure out how to win. Not Respectable.
You call tonight 'losing like wimps'.... and then you suggest losing like whining children.
Posted by barabbas16
on 26 January 2014 - 09:54 PM
Had to watch the game on DVR. Can't believe they dropped that one to the frigging panthers. I gotta say Babcock looks like a moron putting 4 forwards out there on the power play with just a few minutes left and a lead. Guys on the ice have some fault there too. Conservative was the way to go. Of course Florida was going to be jumping all over any shorthanded chance they had that late and behind. All Detroit had to do was not give up a shorty and what do they do? Lose the game because of their own stupidity. What a waste of 4 goals.
Posted by barabbas16
on 18 January 2014 - 03:47 PM
I'm referring to his faking an injury to avoid being bought out. Fans clearly don't like him because of this, Babcock never plays him and he is never complimented by Holland or Babcock in interviews. Hence my comment about him wearing out his welcome with everyone.
It was clear Sammy was a buyout target. To fans and pundits. He wasn't injured in his last game I don't think, yet he suddenly had a flareup of his pectoral injury the day before the buyout deadline.
As for being pissed, you have to read between the lines. When you see and hear and read lots of interviews of Babcock and Holland, you pick up on their speech patterns. He screwed their plans and neither of them have been as complimentary to him as they have been about, say, Cleary. It's also hard to see them being happy about having to keep him when it was his contract that prevented us from icing the team Holland and Babcock wanted. Well, that and Cleary, but again, neither has spares praise for Cleary.
You have no proof to support your claims, though. Show me proof that Samuelsson was faking an injury to avoid being bought out. Sure, fans don't seem to like him much because he hasn't been producing. Yes, Babcock has sat him quite a bit - 'never plays him' is obviously false. Never complimented by Holland or Babcock in interviews......
“I thought (Mikael) Samuelsson was good, had lots of opportunities to score last game so I’m leaving him back in,” Babcock said. - November 14, 2013
... again, obviously false.
Show me proof that Samuelsson would have been bought out if it had not been for the injury situation. If it's so clear, surely you can find me a quote from Holland or someone saying 'Yeah, we would have approached him about a buyout, but he said he was injured, so that didn't work out.' I haven't seen anything like that as of yet. All I've seen is posts from people like you full of speculation and opinion and devoid of pertinent factual information.
As far as pissed, I'm not going to 'read between the lines.' I can't do it any more than you can. We don't know Bobcock and Holland well enough to tell what they are thinking by their tone. Mikael Samuelsson did not screw anyone's plans. He signed a contract that he was offered. No one had a gun to Ken Holland's head and made him an offer he couldn't refuse. They offered him the contract and he took it.... same way as he did with Vancouver when Detroit wouldn't pay him what he wanted the last time.
It isn't Samuelsson's fault that Holland put himself in his current position. The contract is on Holland. The NTC in the contract is on Holland. The fact that a buyout was even potentially necessary (not that we can prove that one would have happened anyway) is on Holland. Mikael Samuelsson didn't sign 20 forwards to the team this season.
If you must be pissed off, I think your anger is misdirected. There's more reason to be pissed at Holland than Samuelsson. And, if everyone is so annoyed about the Samuelsson contract, I don't understand why there aren't like 10 threads full of posts with people fuming about the Weiss contract. Detroit is done with Samuelsson after this season. Weiss is getting paid $2 million more per season. Has basically the same amount of points in the same amount of games played this season - WITH over 4 more minutes of ice time per game. AND..... there are FOUR more years left on his contract. Not to mention that the guy he replaced is absolutely lighting it up in Tampa.