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Member Since 21 Mar 2007
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#2683476 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by Echolalia on 19 July 2016 - 12:06 PM

The PK under Babcock was fine up until 2011 or so. Things started changing to more passive/ "shot block to save a goal" bullcrap once we started transitioning from Datsyuk/Zetterberg to Miller, Eaves, then Glendening. It's fine, we didn't have anyone to fill in for D and Z's role. But now with Larkin, AA, and Helm signed for 5 years, there is absolutely no excuse not to use capable speedy, skilled players on the PK. 
One thing I liked about Draper more than Glendening/Miller was not only was Draper a good defensive 3rd/4th liner but the guy knew how to drive offense and often times converted his PK time into offensive opportunities. His 21 shorthanded goals and Selke trophy as a damn 4th liner (unheard of) speaks for itself. 

Despite all the flak he gets (and likely myself too because I'm bringing it up) but Darren Helm was that guy in the first half of his career. He would get short handed breakaways on a regular basis. Might not convert on most of them, but at the very least if you're skating the puck down into the other zone I would call that effective penalty killing. I am 100% on board with Helm getting some more PK time along with some of these younger kids who are a threat to tilt the ice in the opposite direction.

#2683475 Should any of #91, #13, #40, #30 be retired? Poll/Discussion

Posted by Echolalia on 19 July 2016 - 12:02 PM

What about the old argument that if you have to debate it, that means that person shouldn't be in the rafters?

thats typically been my philosophy.

#2683154 Glendening signs 4-year, $1.8m AAV extension

Posted by Echolalia on 14 July 2016 - 11:03 AM

Wow quite a lot of money. He has to be one of the most enigmatic players for LGW. On one hand he's a fourth liner. Period. On the other, Babcock and now Blashill are more than comfortable giving him extended minutes in all situations atypical for a fourth liner. One coach doing it is maybe poor judgement, but two? I'm happy he will remain with Detroit but this seems like overpayment.

#2683076 Who should get A?

Posted by Echolalia on 13 July 2016 - 12:48 PM

All his buddies play for the leafs, Hyman and Matthews

Does that mean Larkin will lure Matthews here???

#2683059 Pulkkinen re-signs with a 1 year deal

Posted by Echolalia on 13 July 2016 - 10:43 AM

I still maintain that the only way he will stick in the NHL is if he diversifies his skill set right now, and gives Blashill a reason besides a heavy slap shot to put him on the ice. The only way he's going to learn to score regularly in the NHL is with regular opportunity, and the only way he's getting regular opportunity is if he demonstrates value to the team in some form right now.

#2683009 Revisiting the 2011 Entry Draft

Posted by Echolalia on 12 July 2016 - 04:40 PM

I took a quick look at some more numbers from the 2011 draft, specifically how many players drafted that year have gone on to play at least 60 games in the NHL.  60 is an arbitrary number, but I picked it so those players who just last year found their niche in the NHL wouldn't be excluded from the list for only playing in half of the season last year.  I would say the vast majority of players who haven't played at least 60 games in the NHL by now likely haven't established themselves in the NHL, and in most cases they probably won't find permanent NHL jobs.  I don't know if its the most definitive way to classify someone as a bust as I'm sure there are a handful of players who may still slip through, but its at least one way to do it and for its convenience its what I looked at.  ANYWAY:

-In the first round 11 of the 30 players picked have played less than 60 games thus far. 

----Colorado's 11th overall pick Duncan Siemans has played 1 NHL game.

----Buffalo's 16th overall pick Joe Armia has played 44 NHL games.

----Chicago's 18th overall pick Mark McNeill has played 1 NHL game.

----Ottawa's 21st overall pick Steven Noesen has played 2 NHL games.

----Toronto's 22rd overall pick Tyler Biggs has played 0 NHL games.

----Pittsburgh's 23rd overall pick Joe Morrow has played 48 NHL games.

----Ottawa's 24th overall pick Matt Puempel has played 39 NHL games.

----Toronto's 25th overall pick Stuart Percy has played 12 NHL games.

----Chicago's 26th overall pick Philip Danault has played 53 NHL games.

----Minnesota's 28th overall pick Zach Phillips has played 0 NHL games.

----Vancouver's 29th overall pick Nicklas Jensen has played 24 NHL games.

Things to note: Players who have established themselves in the NHL by now really thinned out after pick 15.  Only 5 of the back 15 have played more than 60 NHL games, whereas 14 of the first 15 have (and many of those are in the 200+ games played range).


11 of 30 players in the second round have played more than 60 NHL games, which is a hair higher than the success rate of the back 15 of the first round (essentially the same rate).  In other words, your odds of picking an NHL-calibre-player-by-2016 is essentially the same from pick 15 to pick 60, at least in this draft year.  Kudos to Holland for trading one shot in that 33% success range to two shots (for a total of three shots, all in the second round).  Holland's personal success in this frame currently mirrors the league: 33% success rate of this three picks between 15 and 60.  That is Jurco has played more than 60, and Ouellete and Spoul have played less.

Notable picks in the second round: Brandon Saad at 43rd overall by Chicago Matthew Nieto 47th overall by San Jose, and Nikita Kucherov 58th by Tampa Bay.


5 players from the 3rd round have played more than 60 games: Vincent Trocheck, picked 64th by Florida; Adam Lowry, picked 67th by Winnepeg; Klas Dahlbeck, picked 79th by Chicago; Andy Andreoff picked 80th by Los Angeles; and Nick Shore picked 82nd by Los Angeles.


4 players from the 4th round have played more than 60 games: Jean-Gabriel Pageau picked 96th by Ottawa; Reid Boucher picked 99th by New Jersey; Jonny Gaudreau picked 104th by Calgary; and Tobias Reider picked 114th by Edmonton.


Only Andrew Shaw, picked 139th overall by the Blackhawks, and Nikita Nesterov, picked 148th overall by Tampa Bay have played in more than 60 games from the 5th round.


Josh Manson from Anaheim, picked 160th by Anaheim is the only player from the 6th round.


The 7th round produced four 60+GP players: 

-Iiro Pakarinen, 184th Florida

-Jyrki Jokipakka, 195th Dallas

-Alexi Marchenko, 205th Detroit

-Ondrej Palat, 208th Tampa Bay


Overall I'd say Tampa Bay had the most successful draft that year.  Chicago also did quite well (although they struck out on both of their first round picks).


source: http://www.hockeydb....t/nhl2011e.html

#2682988 Revisiting the 2011 Entry Draft

Posted by Echolalia on 12 July 2016 - 02:41 PM

Another thing I noticed between five years ago and now is the knowledge base of these prospects from a fan's perspective is much broader. In 2011 there seemed to be only a dedicated few who even felt they were knowledgable enough to voice an opinion. This year it seems like many more of these prospects are known throughout the fanbase. Admittedly, I'm still not one of them. The two defensman whom people are debating over taking in this year's draft in the first round are just anonymous blanks in my head right now.

#2682941 Revisiting the 2011 Entry Draft

Posted by Echolalia on 11 July 2016 - 09:30 PM

Prologue: There has been a lot of ongoing discussion in the 2016 entry draft thread regarding the decisions that Holland and co made or did not make.  Some folks think his moves were solid moves and will pay off in the future.  Others think that he messed up and he should have did X, Y, and Z.  The thing about decisions at the draft is none of us will definitively know the outcome of these decisions until well in the future when we can see see which prospects were home runs, which were busts, and which needed some seasoning but turned into solid acquisitions.  I don't know what the accepted timeline is to determine that, but I think by five years we will have a good idea of what kind of player we have.  We obviously can't fast forward five years to see how things turn out, but we can rewind five years and revisit what the discussions were regarding the 2011 entry draft.  I think this might be a fun thing to do annually, especially because there isn't a whole lot of other exciting things to talk about in the offseason on a hockey forum.  That means all your goofy and ridiculous comments are fair game to be quoted five years from now!


Anyway here are the threads for the 2011 entry draft:


1st round pick (24th overall): Traded to Ottawa for 35th and 48th picks

http://www.letsgowin...hl=+2011 +draft


2nd through 7th round picks:

http://www.letsgowin...hl=+2011 +draft

-2nd round pick (35th overall): Tomas Jurco


-2nd round pick (48th overall): Xavier Ouellet


-2nd round pick (55th overall): Ryan Sproul


-3rd round pick (85th overall): Alan Quine


-4th round pick (115th overall): Marek Tvrdon


-5th round pick (145th overall): Philippe Hudon


-6th round pick (175th overall): Richard Nedomiel


-7th round pick (205th overall): Alexei Marchenko


Some interesting observations:

One poster wanted the Wings to pick Jaime Oleksiak with our first round pick, and projected him as a top 3 NHL defensman (currently part of the Dallas Stars organization but has endlessly bounced back and forth between the AHL and the NHL).  He was picked 14th overall, well before our 24th pick, anyway.

There was lots of love for Jurco leading up to our pick (even in the first round).

Opinions were mixed regarding the Wings trading down.  Some folks thought it was smart, some folks thought we were better off using our first round pick on a player.  It caused a bit of a stir.  Today that first round pick is Tomas Jurco and Xavier Ouellete.

There was also lots of love for Joe Morrow, who ended up going to the Pens, who picked 23rd.  Hes currently a part of the Bruins organization, and has played 48 games total in the NHL, including 33 last season.

Everyone seemed to love the second round.  People were high on Jurco, Ouellete, and Sproul.  There was some hope for Saad to be drafted as well.

Some folks believed that Tvrdon and Quine were the steals of the draft.

Something I found particularly entertaining regarding that last bit:


It is hilarious how every draft people on here start going "OMG steal of the year hur hur hur hur" Yeah, I'll see in 5 years how these steals worked out for us.


Go check HFBoards right now and see who they said the steal of the draft was last year, I'll give you a hint It starts with Teemu and ends in Pulkkinen. Check out this years "steal of the draft", I'll give you a hint, his name starts with Marek and ends with Tvrdon.

well here we are.
The knuckle-draggers loved the Nedomiel pick.  He had a knack for being a tough stay and home defender, apparently, with lots of fights under his belt.
Folks didn't seem to know how to take the Marchenko pick.  Some thought it was a solid pick up considering he was highly ranked in the previous year's draft, but others thought that was a bad sign that he wasn't drafted and taken in the last round by us the following year.  There was also some question on whether he would even be interested in coming to the NHL, also.
Anyway, enjoy thumbing through those threads!

#2682736 Should any of #91, #13, #40, #30 be retired? Poll/Discussion

Posted by Echolalia on 09 July 2016 - 05:00 PM

omg i cant believe youre copying my poll idea

#2682670 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by Echolalia on 08 July 2016 - 07:08 PM

You have to have a Facebook account and like their page to be able to see it.

theres nothing about that I "like"

#2682581 This year vs last year: a poll

Posted by Echolalia on 07 July 2016 - 07:42 PM

i mean the year before we were 1st place the majority of the season

#2682540 This year vs last year: a poll

Posted by Echolalia on 07 July 2016 - 01:49 PM

Where is the "All of the above" choice?


When we lose, will you pay your debts?

oh trust me this kid will be paying debts for a while



#2682524 This year vs last year: a poll

Posted by Echolalia on 07 July 2016 - 10:17 AM

Dude those are just words. You had a solid 8hrs of rest and now you're voting better. That's all there is to it.

#2682446 Who do you have as the top 5 Wings of all time..

Posted by Echolalia on 06 July 2016 - 04:44 PM

Miller #5? "..."Really? He should be at the top! DM Fan club unite!

Take off the Miller fan boy glasses being the best pker and shot blocker in the history of the NHL only gets you into the top 5.

#2682322 Who do you have as the top 5 Wings of all time..

Posted by Echolalia on 05 July 2016 - 08:23 PM