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Member Since 21 Mar 2007
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#2538742 Datsyuk to play Thursday? Weiss to be a healthy scratch?

Posted by Echolalia on 07 October 2014 - 12:20 PM


In theory.  But if Helm were any good at that then his offensive production would be significantly higher than it is.  The fact is, so far, Helm's speed has not translated into much offensive productivity.  I'm not really sure why he seems to be the guy Babs is counting on to fill holes in the offense.  


Maybe I'm wrong, but I just see Abby all over again.  "Well, put him alongside Datsyuk and he'll score  just fine...".  *facepalm*

I think that mostly has to do with his stone hands in front of the net

#2538513 What did the preseason show us?

Posted by Echolalia on 06 October 2014 - 10:11 AM

Agreed on Jensen. But Mrazek's sample size extends into solid performances last year (2 shutouts) and, of course, his AHL record which includes the Calder Cup.

Agreed on Mrazek. He had better numbers than Jimmy and Monster last year, and although I haven't looked at the stats for the preseason, but he looked the most impressive to me from the three of them. His unsustainable one shutout for every three games played he had last season continued through the preseason as well. But numbers aside, Mrazek is aggressive as hell in net, and he's real comfortable handling the puck. Not to mention every account of the kid says he's as confident and competitive as anyone you'll meet. The kid is the real deal.

#2538445 Callahan, Ferraro and Porter placed on Waivers

Posted by Echolalia on 05 October 2014 - 12:35 PM

Of those prospects I think they made the right call. Jensen and Oulette both consistently outplayed almost half out defensive NHL roster, and both provided much needed offense from the blue line. Callahan could have provided some much-needed sand paper from the bottom six, but overall Nestrasil has the potential to be a bigger difference-maker, both now and especially a couple years down the road. That said, there's no guarantee that Callahan even gets picked up off waivers, so there may be hope still that he sticks with the organization.

#2538382 10/4 Final Preseason GDT: Detroit Red Wings vs Boston Bruins

Posted by Echolalia on 04 October 2014 - 07:05 PM

I love how aggressive Mrazek is on these shots.  He's butterflying at the faceoff circle

#2538116 2014 Preseason Thread

Posted by Echolalia on 03 October 2014 - 09:50 AM

No really. Think about it. Callahan? Callashan? Shallashan? Shanahan.

I rest my case.

I'm sold

#2538042 2014 Prospects Tournament and Training Camp (Sept. 12-23)

Posted by Echolalia on 02 October 2014 - 02:53 PM

Looks like Jensen, Marchenko, & Ouellet are considered the front runners to take spots with Sproul & Backman being sent down.  Just hope they are given a legitimate shot yet at taking Kindl & Lashoff's jobs to start the season, especially with how bad those two looked against the Pens last night.

It's crazy because I didn't even know who the kid was a couple weeks ago, but I gotta say Jensen looks like the biggest difference-maker of the bunch from what I've seen. I can't believe how solid he looked at all ends of the ice. It doesn't hurt that he has a good set of wheels and a right-handed shot either.

#2537979 10/1 Exhibition GDT : Pittsburgh Penguins at Red Wings, 7:30 EST

Posted by Echolalia on 01 October 2014 - 08:51 PM

where did Jensen come from?  I've heard nothing about this kid at all and I think he's been the most impressive defensive prospect so far.

#2537961 10/1 Exhibition GDT : Pittsburgh Penguins at Red Wings, 7:30 EST

Posted by Echolalia on 01 October 2014 - 07:47 PM

Kindl wtf was that..


Actually Lashoff looked like the one who screwed that one up.  He was caught up way too high, covering absolutely nobody, while Kindl was stuck responsible for two bodies in front of the net, although he was out of position to effectively do that.  Weiss also looked lost on that play, but with Lashoff so high up, I don't know if Weiss noticed a second too late to cover for him or what happened.  He was in an awkward spot on the ice.


I would like to see another replay of the play just to see if there was a winger who coughed up the puck on a potential breakout, and Lashoff was anticipating the puck to go to center ice.  I can't remember those details of the goal.

#2537956 10/1 Exhibition GDT : Pittsburgh Penguins at Red Wings, 7:30 EST

Posted by Echolalia on 01 October 2014 - 07:32 PM

I love his combination of speed, low center of gravity and balance. He's like a hockey version of Maradona ;) hard to knock off the puck.

He's reminding me more and more of Zetterberg

#2537943 10/1 Exhibition GDT : Pittsburgh Penguins at Red Wings, 7:30 EST

Posted by Echolalia on 01 October 2014 - 06:45 PM

sigh, Kindl already losing his man at the blue line and allowing a mini 2 on 1

I like the scheme of our powerplay so far this year.  They're running a 1-3-1, but the net front presence has their stick wide of the net, almost behind the goal line in that soft area, which provides an interesting pass option for the guy on the boards, if the player can be strong enough on the puck to bring it to the front of the net.

#2537862 Are the wings underrated?

Posted by Echolalia on 30 September 2014 - 05:24 PM

If you've already admitted that he just did what any other coach out do (standard practice), which you have, then it doesn't make sense to say that nobody else could do it.  It's a contradictory statement.  The key variable is the execution.  Which is on the players.

Attempting standard practice (or any practice) and successfully executing it has just as much to do with the coach and his motivational skills, practice regimes, interpersonal relationships, ability to teach, develop, etc etc as it does the players successfully carrying out their responsibilities, so I will fundamentally disagree with you there.

#2537860 Are the wings underrated?

Posted by Echolalia on 30 September 2014 - 04:40 PM

He had them playing a style of game that leads many less-skilled teams to limited success.  I agree.  That doesn't make him "heroic", or a "genius".  Many other coaches have used a similar strategy to have limited success in the past.  Since when does adopting standard practice make someone heroic? 
The true "heroes" last season were a bunch of kids taking a team on their backs and outperforming expectations night in and night out.  NOBODY, including our coach and GM, thought that Nyquist or Tatar were capable of what they did.  Let alone Sheahan, Jurco, Glendening. 
But all hail Mike Babcock because he was forced to focus more heavily on defense given that his offensive stars were hurt.  Nobody else would have ever thought of that.
Mike Babcock is a good coach.  Evidence of that is 2003, 2008, and 2009.  Not 2014. 

Adopting standard practice is heroic when everyone has written off your roster as a bunch of patches and bandaids that have no business making the playoffs, and you still find a way in. As I mentioned above, Trotz failed to successfully adopt standard practice last year and his roster was more competent. Same thing with Tippett and just about every coach in the NHL who didn't make the playoffs. Babs got further than every team below the Wings despite having less proven talent than each of those teams. And as I already alluded to, there's more to it that just telling your roster to play within a certain system. A large chunk of our roster had little to no NHL experience. They hadn't played the roles that Babcock expected them to play in the past. He had to have everyone on the same page, and buying into the system, and help a lot of these kids grow into competent NHL players. He also had to do with without many of our on-ice leaders present to help ease the transition.
The rest of your post seems like you're implying that I don't think the kids deserve much credit in getting us to the playoffs, which is incorrect. I mentioned a few posts above that Nyqvist's streak was an anomaly, and without that anomaly the Wings don't make the playoffs. I also don't think the Wings make the playoffs without Tatar leading by example and showing the amount of heart that he did. I don't think the Wings make the playoffs without Sheahan and Jurco stepping up, or Gus when Jimmy was faltering. I also don't think the Wings make the playoffs with anyone else behind the bench.

And I think were at the point in the debate where both sides have said their thoughts, and we're both content not budging.

#2537857 Are the wings underrated?

Posted by Echolalia on 30 September 2014 - 03:50 PM

That completely ignores that fact that we lost more close games than we won.  Look at our dismal overtime and shootout record.  If keeping games close was such a brilliant strategy you would think we'd have won more of those eh?
Edited for accuracy:  We lost more close game, but not "many" more close games. 

So what if they lost more close games than not? That doesn't discredit the fact Babcock had the team playing a style of hockey that gave them a chance to win on most nights. Sometimes you get the bounces, or a kid gets a hot streak, sometimes you regress to the the mean and the team with more skill actually wins.

Also, trapping your way to victory isn't some sort of Babcockian master stroke.  Teams without a lot of skill have done it for years.  The New Jersey Devils organization has (and continues to have) considerable success with that strategy.  As has Dave Tippet and the Coyotes, and Barry Trotz with the Predators.  That's what teams without a lot of skill players do.  Yet when Babcock does it, he's a genius who "heroically" coached the no skilled Red Wings to a first round playoff loss. 

I hope you can identify more strategy than just trapping, kip. You're better than that. Babs had everyone back checking hard, supporting the puck tightly, playing on the right side of the puck at all times, even if it meant less chances for an odd-man rush in our favor. The team was playing a soft swarm in the defensive zone pretty effectively, and doing a good job keeping the puck along the perimeter most nights. They've been relieving deep zone pressure by going up the middle for years and other teams are just now starting to adapt that strategy as well. In the offensive zone players are rarely caught deep on a turnover. And again, many of the guys playing last year started in the AHL and thus didn't have any experience playing under Babcock, so I imagine there was an added variable for adjusting to playing under a new coach and a new system, with a new role.
And just for the record, the three teams you mentioned who also play the trap effectively failed to make the playoffs last year, despite a healthier roster than the Wings.

#2537850 Are the wings underrated?

Posted by Echolalia on 30 September 2014 - 02:59 PM

Bobcock's system was designed to get unsustainably high offensive production out of one guy over a period of about 25 games, and then for that exact same player to completely disappear for the remaining 10-12 games?  Come on?
Babcock's system had very little to do with Nyquist's run...as evidenced by the fact that not another player in that same system has ever produced anything like that before or since.  And that includes players like Brendan Shanahan, Pavel Datsyuk, Henrik Zetterberg, Johan Franzen, and Marian Hossa. 

You're interpreting my post incorrectly.
Babcock's system allowed a bunch of AHL players, bottom six forwards, bottom three defensmen, and Kronwall to keep games close and competitive against NHL talent on a nightly basis. If it's only a one goal game, Nyquist, or Tatar, or whomever has a chance to play hero. If it's a two or three goal game, it doesn't matter if Nyqvist has the hot streak, because the Wings are still losing more games than not.
Nyqvist's run was an anomaly that any coach would take advantage of, but most coaches wouldn't be in a position to get a win out of that anomaly with the roster Babcock was given on most nights.

#2537846 Are the wings underrated?

Posted by Echolalia on 30 September 2014 - 02:18 PM

Point taken about the games played part.  You're right there.
Holland had no problem waiving Samuelsson, Eaves, and Tootoo once Babs' decided he didn't want them.  It took him 26, 25, and 11 games respectively to figure that out.  I realize that Holland makes the personnel moves, but please stop acting like Babs has no say whatever in which team hits the ice.  You act like Babs was just begging for Nyquist and Holland had his fingers in his ears yelling no.  That didn't happen.  Remember "tie goes to the veteran"?  I do. 
Also, none of that negates the fact that nothing Babs' did last year was "heroic".  Which was my original point.  He put an obvious player on an obvious line, and that player produced at an unsustainably high level to drag the team into the playoffs. 

Nyqvist played excellently and definitely beyond what anyone was expecting him to do, but he was also playing in a system that Babcock ser up for the Wings to maximize their chances in. Nyqvist was able to win games because the system he was a part of kept the games close despite the Wings' obvious defensive weaknesses personelle-wise. Theres a lot more to the process than putting the obvious player on the obvious line. Nyqvist was a big part of the Wings getting into the playoffs, but let's not pretend that was all in spite of Babcock's work behind the bench.