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Member Since 21 Mar 2007
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#2577076 Red Wings acquire Erik Cole, conditional 3rd from Stars

Posted by Echolalia on 01 March 2015 - 11:30 PM


So you're deciding to base your entire line of  argument on "what if Holland went to a bad/different team?" And then assuming he would do bad? Despite that there exists zero evidence to back that conclusion? Or any conclusion involving that premise?


Goodluck with the straw grasping brother. I'm out.

dood hes 29. He knows hockey.

#2577067 Red Wings acquire Erik Cole, conditional 3rd from Stars

Posted by Echolalia on 01 March 2015 - 11:20 PM


How old are you? May I ask? I turn 29 this month and I've followed the Wings religiously my entire life from age 8. For some reason i actually retain most of the generally useless history, info, players, trades, and dialogue I've heard along the way. I've followed the Wings for the entirety of Holland's tenure as GM and I have a particular addiction to information I've come across about NHL front offices. I like to think, as a fan, I'm about as informed as I can be enough to make the claims I do.


Holland has done a lot of things right in his time with the Wings, but he also had an All-Star cast of Front Office support along the way...not limited to Dellevano, Scotty Bowman (who I believe brought way more than people even thought...and they thought he brought a lot), Nill, Mark Howe, and several others. But since those people have started moving on, his ability to make good trades has nose dived. If Babcock creates good coaches, I believe Holland was created by other good front office people. HE does not seem to be a great stand alone GM. The two things that he is most credited for are also other peoples jobs (cap management and scouting). 


This is far more than vibes bro, but thanks for playing.


Actually it sounds like its ONLY vibes.  "who I believe brought way more..." "I believe Holland was created by other good front office people." "He does not seem to be a great stand alone GM".  These aren't facts.  This is what you believe.  And you didn't even bother to try to support these opinions with anything empirical or quantifiable.  As far as any of us are aware you're going off of vibes.

Also, you say Holland's ability to make good trades has nose-dived after people like Nill left.  Nill left in 2013.  Holland only made two trades since then (Legwand and Cole).  That's not exactly a good sample size to base criticism on, especially because the Cole trade isn't even 4 hours old yet, and we haven't had a chance to see what these players can do for their new teams (but considering Holland moved two players who will never see ice as a Red Wing, if Cole plays just one game then the Wings are coming out ahead).  If Holland made any s***ty trades prior to Nill leaving in 2013, are you willing to point the blame on Nill for those screwups?  Or does he only get credit for the good trades, and it was all Holland's idea for the bad ones?  And also, will you be basing your answer off more than vibes again?

#2577051 Do we need a trade to get our offence going ?

Posted by Echolalia on 01 March 2015 - 10:54 PM

I'll expand on this more when I'm not on my phone, but I think getting Nyquist out of the top six is a good idea. I'd love for Holland to get a big winger tomorrow.


I agree with this.  Nyquist has been money on the powerplay this year, where he has time and space to work.  5 on 5 hasn't been as friendly to him, and I think a lot of that has to do with how tightly the opposition checks him.  He spent a good deal of time last year on the third line, and even when he was bumped up to the top six during all the injuries, nobody in the league knew anything about this Nyquist kid, so other teams gave him time and space to make things happen.  I think playing him against third line opponents will buy him some of that time and space back, and we might see him produce more as a result.  The only question would be who will take his spot in the top 6, and will the production from Nyquist on the third line + player X on the second line be greater than Nyquist on the second, and player X on the third?  The only way to know for sure is to give it a try.

And ho hum the Wings picked up a top 6 forward, so Nyquist getting bumped becomes a little more convenient.  On the other hand, because this forward is Cole, if they were both on the same line, Nyquist might get that extra time and space anyway with Cole feeding him pucks and pulling the piano.  Frankly I'd like to see both options tried out.  Worst case scenario is it doesn't work out, and we can always go back to the old lines.  Its not like he's been completely ineffective anyway, and he'll always have the powerplay.

#2577031 Red Wings acquire Erik Cole, conditional 3rd from Stars

Posted by Echolalia on 01 March 2015 - 10:29 PM

I guess I'm joining the party a bit late.

My thoughts (which seem to echo many of the folks in here based on my read-through):

Cole, conditional 3rd <-> Backman, Janmark, 2nd.

Backman is a nonasset in the Wings' organization.  He couldn't break the lineup in GR (or refused to), and high-tailed it back to Sweden.  Combine that with the fact that half of our NHL lineup is relatively young (Smith, DeKeyser, Quincey, Kindl, Lashoff) and we have several guys banging on the door (Oulette, Marchenko, Sproul), and its pretty clear that Backman didn't have a future in Detroit.  So kudos to Kenny for turning a nonasset into a roster player, and if Jim Nill can get Backman over to the NHL, then good for the Stars and good for Backman.  But that opportunity doesn't exist for him in Detroit.

Janmark I don't know much about, admittedly.  I know a couple posters are pretty high on the kid, but I personally haven't heard much, but he's also buried pretty deep on the depth chart.  We have a lot of young forwards on the team that are playing well, and again, a lot that are in the pipeline.  I don't know if Janmark will ever have the opportunity to break the Wings' lineup, so again, this looks like Holland is getting value out of a player who, by himself, likely doesn't have any value in the Wings organization. 

So from how I'm looking at, the 2nd round pick was the Wings' most devastating loss in this trade, and if we don't get to the ECF (or we do but Cole doesn't play in at least 50% of the games to get us there), then the Wings have a 3rd round pick from Dallas coming back to soften that blow.  So as far as trade value, I think Holland did a good job.  I'm not sure what the Stars prospect pool looks like, but if its pretty shallow and these kids can come in and contribute, then Nill probably did well also and its a fair trade.

As for what Cole brings to the table: I have him pegged as someone similar to Abdelkader, except Cole has been scoring a bit more this year, but both are big bodies that can wear down on the other team, and are most comfortable in the greasy areas of the ice.  With Franzen out until further notice, it will be good to have another big body to round out our top six, and I can see that coming in quite valuable in the playoffs, especially considering the manner in which the Wings lost to the Bruins last year.  So I think Cole can contribute and be a difference maker.  The biggest knock on the guy is that he's up there in age, but looking at his ppg over the last few seasons, he's actually been trending upward. 2011-2012 was his most productive year at .74ppg and 35 goals.  The following year he was destroyed by injuries and posted .276 in only a handful of games.  The year after he played 75 of 82 games and had a .39ppg.  This year he's at .578ppg and has played 57 of the Stars 62 games.  So as far as how much age is allegedly slowing him down, its pretty hard to assess, actually.  His numbers took a sharp hit when he had that injury-plagued year in 2012-2013, but since then he's steadily been getting better, and hasn't missed too many games either, although he has yet to reach his .74ppg from 2011-2012.  At the very least he has shown he can still contribute, and its even more encouraging to see that hes trending up and not down.


Overall I'm pleased with the trade.  I think Holland did a good job of getting something out of "nothing", and I think he targeted a piece that will make the Wings a more well-rounded, and more difficult team to play against.  Also, for those of you upset about the trade, think of it this way:  Cole on the team likely bumps Andersson from the top 12.

#2575963 2/28 GDT : Red Wings 4 at Predators 3

Posted by Echolalia on 28 February 2015 - 03:48 PM

Brendan Smith reminds me of Podrick Payne

#2575359 2/26 GDT : Red Wings 3 at San Jose Sharks 2

Posted by Echolalia on 27 February 2015 - 12:42 AM

Odds of Wings getting a PP this period?


#2575273 2/26 GDT : Red Wings 3 at San Jose Sharks 2

Posted by Echolalia on 26 February 2015 - 11:52 PM

Howard should really get into that scrum and help Andersson out

#2575194 2/26 GDT : Red Wings 3 at San Jose Sharks 2

Posted by Echolalia on 26 February 2015 - 11:08 PM

I only have one question?  How the HELL do we have only one shot on goal? 


C'mon Puckloo only scrub teams can only muster one shot on net at this point, don't be silly.

We have two.

#2575096 2/26 GDT : Red Wings 3 at San Jose Sharks 2

Posted by Echolalia on 26 February 2015 - 10:38 PM

why is everything green

#2575094 2/26 GDT : Red Wings 3 at San Jose Sharks 2

Posted by Echolalia on 26 February 2015 - 10:33 PM

Nothing like vegging out to a hockey game after burning myself out all day.  I DEMAND PUCKS IN NETS

#2575033 2/26 GDT : Red Wings 3 at San Jose Sharks 2

Posted by Echolalia on 26 February 2015 - 05:52 PM

...have you watched Vikings? :lol:

I heard its a good show for us GoT fans

#2574392 How is the Wings' Pro Scouting?

Posted by Echolalia on 24 February 2015 - 01:41 PM

I dont know if it's as big of a deal to have many pro scouts. There are only so many pro players that are available at any one time, and the team can whittle down that list to just their particular needs (for example there are only so many defensman available at this trade deadline, and the Wings don't have much interest in a bottom 3 defensman, or a left handed defensman, so is it worth wasting the resources to scout these players?). After a more narrow list is made, when you consider all the tape that's out there one these players, and their league-wide reputation, there may only be a need to have a few pro-scouts on staff to go investigate these guys in person.

#2574235 2/23 GDT : Red Wings 3 at Ducks 4 (SO)

Posted by Echolalia on 24 February 2015 - 12:54 AM

Damn.  Twice we've outplayed the Ducks this season and twice we've lost to them.  Oh well, on to tomorrow.

#2574211 2/23 GDT : Red Wings 3 at Ducks 4 (SO)

Posted by Echolalia on 24 February 2015 - 12:49 AM

Soooooo Datsyuk misses wide backhand....

Nyquist tries for the five hole....

Tatar.... who knows?

#2574208 2/23 GDT : Red Wings 3 at Ducks 4 (SO)

Posted by Echolalia on 24 February 2015 - 12:48 AM

Is Getzlaf  barred from taking the shootout?

Thats a good question