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Member Since 21 Mar 2007
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#2551997 Mantha getting closer.

Posted by Echolalia on 26 November 2014 - 12:35 PM



This one is from 2013...great stats you got Harold LOL


And this is why I'm talking about how he won't back away from someone...even if they're a giant


And here is what I mean by willing to fight but teammates interfere:


So I don't know if the site that you use is wrong or if you are but either way id be my left but that there's a lot if fights not recorded. To me any time two people are throwing punches it's a "fight" even if it's more of a scrum.


The site technically wasn't wrong.  In the 2013 fight you posted, they were given roughing minors, not fighting majors, which is why it wasn't included on hockeyfights

#2551928 Mantha getting closer.

Posted by Echolalia on 25 November 2014 - 07:56 PM


Which one?


Currently got Jets v #lumbus on...

the Griffins, but its tomorrow night so just read my comment in like 20 hours and respond.

#2551915 Lines Thread

Posted by Echolalia on 25 November 2014 - 04:16 PM


Because it's reasonable to assume that both those guys will play a full 82 games this season, or going forward?  I'm not skewing stats.  I'm going by their totals.  Neither of those two will ever play a full 82 games again.  So why would you go by their full season projections?


You mentioned that you think the Datsyuk Helm Weiss line is doomed to fail, and followed that up by saying none of the three of them averages more than 130-140 shots/year.  That suggests that you expect the line to fail because they allegedly don't shoot the puck much, which is what Son of a Wing addressed by using a much more accurate shots/game average.  Their season totals are that low due primarily to injuries, and to use full-season shot total to predict what kind of offensive output we can expect IS skewing stats (or at the very least is a poor choice of statistical values to use).  With your value of 135 shots/year, it suggests an average of 1.6 shots/game, which is much lower than what they actually shoot.  His response has absolutely nothing to do with playing a full season.

#2551381 Inconsistency

Posted by Echolalia on 23 November 2014 - 06:51 PM


I posted about this very thing a few days ago. While I don't think you can pin our inconsistency on just one or two things, I'm willing to bet this is the biggest factor.


The thing about a player's "prime" is it's not just some physiological thing that magically happens when you hit a certain age. It's largely just the fact that, being 27, you've been in this league for three or four or five years now. You're experienced, comfortable, confident. You're a veteran. Roughly half our roster isn't there yet, and you can definitely tell.


It does make me excited for what's on the horizon.



edit: for the record, I think its worth mentioning that while we haven't put together a long streak of victories in a row, yet, the Wings are still right in the thick of things, with the teams around us having played more games.  This implies that we probably haven't experienced the losing streaks that some of these other teams have endured also.

#2551355 Inconsistency

Posted by Echolalia on 23 November 2014 - 05:21 PM


That's definitely a theory that I've thought about, but the problem I have with what I'll call the "transition argument" is this...all those guys are playing great.  The fourth line is playing awesome, the kids (other than Jurco) are playing very well, the prime guys have been good (minus Helm), and the vets are all playing well.  Literally everybody on the team aside from Jurco, Helm, Lashoff, and Kindl are playing great hockey.  And we don't really rely on any of those four to win games anyway. 


That's what's so irritating about all this for me.  Everybody is playing pretty well.  We've got a good offense, defense, goaltending, and special teams.  And yet we can't string together wins.  I just don't get it. 


I think everyone's put up some solid strings of games, but I don't think anyone has been able to really consistetly get going.  Tatar is currently on fire, but he was cold in the beginning of the season, and right now it seems like Tatar is the only one who is producing.  Nyquist has 3 points his last 10 games, but at the beginning of the year every puck he touched hit the back of the net.  Zetterberg has been cold lately, Datsyuk hasn't been playing.  Really, the only line that has been able play with some consisteny throughout the season has been the fourth line.  And I think you really hit the nail on the head in your title in that the Wings have been inconsistent.  Maybe not collectively, because there always seems to be at least one player who's pulling the wagon (and there have been plenty of different players to pull it already), but in terms of lines and individual players, they've been pretty streaky.  Well, aside from the fourth line in a shut-down role, and actually Abdelkader has been bringing it every day, too.  I'd add Smith to that list as well but hes missing time right now, which isn't helping the Wings out.  Everyone else has been either really hot for several games, or really cold for several games, and at a loss for any better reason I suspect that age distribution may be at least partly to blame.

Its almost like they're taking turns being the on-ice leader.  Right now Tatar is playing hot, so he's pulling the wagon.  Next week its going to be Franzen, and then Tatar will disappear.

#2551351 Inconsistency

Posted by Echolalia on 23 November 2014 - 04:53 PM

If I had to guess, I would say that the age distribution of our team may be playing a role.  One one end, we have our current core of Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Kronwall, all on the wrong side of 33.  They're still great players, but the Wings cant lean on them as heavily as they used to, and I don't think it fair to expect them to string together win streaks entirely on their shoulders.  And on the other end of the spectrum, we have our up-and-coming core (give or take) of Nyqvist, Tatar, Sheahan, Dekeyser, etc etc all south of 25 years old.  They're great players, but not quite in their prime, and not quite experiened enough to be the leaders of this team.  If you look at the players that we have between 25 and 30 years old (which I'm arbitrarily defining as prime years just based on the notion that folks in this age range tend to have a few solid years of NHL experience under their belt, and are still young enough in most cases not to have lost a step or be plagued by injuries) we have Abdelkader (27), Andersson (25), Glendening (25), Helm (27), Miller (30), Nyquist (25), and Smith (25).  Four of those seven players are on our fourth line.  I think its also worth pointing out that even though I arbitrarily picked 25-30 as prime years, based in part due to NHL experience, Glendening, Andersson, Nyquist and Smith have all played less than 140 NHL games, which means that sweet spot between solid skill and durability, and solid experience is going to be delayed a few more years in these guys.

But who knows whats really going on.


I just took a look at the standings at NHL.com, and right now there are only three teams currently riding 3-game winning streaks.  Everyone else has streaks smaller than that (or losing streaks).  Theres also 23 of 30 teams within 10 points of eachother league-wide. I don't know what each team has looked like streak-wise over the course of the entire season so far, but teams are more closely matched than in the past, which can also be playing a role.

#2550947 Do we need a trade to get our offence going ?

Posted by Echolalia on 22 November 2014 - 11:28 AM

Better than anyone expected? No. we are playing were most of us expected. fact is we have won 10 games out of 19. Barely above .500. If the PO's started this morning we are in as the 7th seed. No different than the past few years. This while guys like Nyquist, Franzen, and tatar have been hot scoring goals. They all will cool off and then things get more concerning. yes if he dominates Mantha could be a jan 1 pickup that helps. But he isn't the type of player we need most: front of the net grinder types. We simply don't have any in our system. We need 2 Hornquist type of players. Then another puck moving Dman that shoots RHed.

Perron and Petry would be great pick ups for this team. Now what we would have to pay is the question. 

We're in the seventh seed because everyone above us has played two more games than we have. If the Wings win their games in hand, they're second in the division.  Additionally, we may have won 10 out of 19, but we've also only lost 4 out of 19 in regulation, which is the second best in the league to only Pittsburgh's 3 regulation losses.

So whil the facts you give are technically true, they're also an incredibly negative and misleading spin on what's actually going on.  Through the first quarter of this season, the Wings have playing like a top 10 team.

#2550832 Clearly and Nestrasil in

Posted by Echolalia on 21 November 2014 - 05:52 PM

Babs mentioned that Cleary took lead of the team on the bench prior to the Wings waking up against the Jets. Maybe there's more to his off-ice intangibles than we figured.

#2550831 CBJ's Jack Johnson files for bankruptcy

Posted by Echolalia on 21 November 2014 - 05:48 PM

There's got to be something to it.  When I went to Central I thought that my buddies and I could drink, and we really could drink...a lot.  But then I visited some friends at Michigan Tech.  Jesus Christ.  It's really hard to explain the kind of drinking they do.  It's like nothing I've ever seen.  Natty Ice might as well be water up there. 
So I strongly believe that the colder it is, and the more isolated it is, the harder people drink.  Which is why everbody in DC drinks for s***. 

Lol I know a couple guys who live in the UP year round. Well they have a joke that they know how many days of winter they had by counting the Crown bags that pile up in their house.

#2550635 11/20 GDT : Red Wings 4 at Jets 3

Posted by Echolalia on 20 November 2014 - 10:27 PM

Abdelkader has been killing it this year

#2550317 Smith and Ericcsson?

Posted by Echolalia on 20 November 2014 - 05:47 PM


Maybe Foligno said something about Smith's mother.  Maybe something happened earlier in the game between those two.  Who knows why they fought.  There are plenty of fights during games that are blowouts, and it always takes two to tango. Smith didn't do anything selfish by fighting.  Selfish would be a retaliatory penalty that costs the team a powerplay goal.  Smith wasn't thinking about getting potentially injured, nor should he, so I wouldn't call it a selfish decision because he got hurt.  It just happened.  


This I disagree with.

There was nothing the team could have gained by Smith getting into the fight  The game was already comfortably under control in the Wings' favor.  Smith, on the other hand, could have repaired his own damaged ego (or his mother's if that's the case), or seeked retribution for a hit he didn't like, but those are personal reasons to fight that have nothing to do with the team's odds for victory.  So in this case, the only one who's getting any potential benefit out of this is Smith, and its an entirely emotional benefit.

As for risk, well there is always a risk of injury when getting into a fight, and everyone should weigh that risk against the potential benefit when choosing to partake.  There is also the guarantee that your team will have to play without you for the next five minutes, which is a more serious situation when the fighter is a defensman, becuase there's only six of those total to begin with.  If you're one of the folks who believe that fights can be a rallying point to boost team morale and get everyone more engaged in the game, then there's also the risk of firing the other team up, and potentialy losing a game that your team was winning.  So in terms of risk, Smith is risking his health, he's risking his team losing control over the game, he's putting Babcock and his teammates in a tougher spot because they have to pick up his slack while he sits in the box, and if he happens to get injured in the fight (which he happened to get injured), then Babcock and his teammates are in a tougher spot for the next several days, instead of just five minutes.

So lots of risk and disadvantages that the whole team has to carry, so Smith can resolve a personal vendetta that he has in the waning minutes of a game.  I'd say that's quite selfish.

#2550300 Nestrasil Waived / Claimed by Hurricanes

Posted by Echolalia on 20 November 2014 - 05:02 PM

If Cleary wasn't on the team then some other prospect, likely Callahan would have been up, and we still would have lost one of the two of Callahan or Neatrasil to waivers. This doesn't have as much to do with Cleary being on the team as it does Jurco being eligible to bypass waivers, but not be sent down (which if you're into the whole "the best man plays" philosophy, was the correct decision). Anyway, Neatrasil was riding pine here. Now he may at least have a chance to continue his career.

#2550136 Smith and Ericcsson?

Posted by Echolalia on 20 November 2014 - 11:35 AM

Yep. I think it could have been handled better - simply just for precautionary measures, beyond the possibility of infection. Considering where they were in the game (which is basically my point, but by all means, keep focusing on the infection aspect and giving me a detailed history on "Fluky Hand Injuries: NHL Coaches and the Players They've Doghoused). Just my opinion on it.

I think a more reasonable approach would be to not fight to begin with

#2550036 Smith and Ericcsson?

Posted by Echolalia on 19 November 2014 - 02:29 PM

Holland has sissified the poor kid.  Smith used to fight more frequently in his younger days.  Now he's having problems due to this lame fight?    


Nothing like pure testosterone and extra hair on the chest to keep an infection from setting in.

#2549849 11/18 GDT Red Wings 5 @ Blue Jackets 0

Posted by Echolalia on 18 November 2014 - 08:50 PM

nice block by Franzen! Followed up by af****** lazy play... I know he was tired, but not only was Gus flying waiting for the pass, he actually called out "hey Mule!" Franzen looked right him, stopped skating and lobbed it in on goal for an easy freeze. Just because you're lazy Franzen, doesn't mean the whole team is! He should have passed it to Gus at then went off, Gus has the energy and attitude we need, Franzen just slows his team down...

Franzen made the right play. Him and Zetterberg were both dead from a long shift and needed to go to the bench. Franzen can make the pass, but there's a bigger risk of that leading to a neutral zone turnover (puck bounces over Nyqvist's stick, defender pinches and intercepts the pass, it's not an accurate pass etc), which could be lethal with your forwards tired, especially in the second period with the long change. He had a clean path to center ice with practically no risk of losing the puck. That was just a matter of making the safest play to ensure his line got off without any casualties.