GoWings1905

No, which is a fair point. The Penguins were/are in a little better position than the Wings though in that area, so Cleary was more of a necessity.

Morrow is still slow, even if his knees are in working condition. 2013 playoffs: Morrow - 14 G, 2 G, 2 A Cleary - 14 G, 4 G, 6 A I like Morrow, but I would rather have Cleary for the respective contracts and if we aren't factoring in I wouldn't want either given the Wings' current roster situation.

How can Tatar and Nyquist both possibly not be regulars on this team? What more do they have to prove? They are easily two of the best 12 forwards on the roster.

20,066 other people gladly will, so it's probably a futile effort. If the Red Wings management consistently made poor decisions, then I maybe understand fans' backlash. However, boycotting over Dan Cleary seems a little overdone.

What a comeback! I know it's the White Sox, but trailing by six in the ninth to win is remarkable. Magic Number is down to two. Can clinch the division tomorrow at home with some help.

That's fine, but even when Marian Hossa isn't putting up points, he influences the game in other areas. That's the major difference between him and Franzen. Hossa is a far superior all-around player.

On the team is a nice start, but that could mean healthy scratch or six minutes per game on the 4th line with Cory Emmerton. Tatar and Nyquist both are too good not to have roles that are probably otherwise going to be filled by the likes of Samuelsson, Cleary and Bertuzzi.

That has to be instigating.

Sadly, there's a real distinct possibility of that occurring.

Not that concerning for a one-year deal. If Cleary performs well enough, the Wings won't move him and if he doesn't, I doubt any team takes him on as a rental. On the other hand, Samuelsson getting a NTC was a terrible decision.

For the turtleneck, no less. Do the Wings win any championships if that goes through?

I liked Brunner. He had some deficiencies, but he gave the Red Wings something they severely lacked. A goal-scoring winger that wasn't afraid to shoot the puck and he provided an excellent secondary scoring threat on that third line in the playoffs. I think/hope Nyquist and Tatar can pick up the slack. Just unfortunate there's so much dead weight on the team that keeping Brunner wasn't more feasible.

Honestly if anyone does that, I question how much of a Wings fan they were to begin with. It's not like the Red Wings are the Lions where the organization continually botches personnel moves. This is a really good team, with or without Dan Cleary. I don't like the move either, but boycotting over a signing is ridiculous.

Going to be weird seeing Cleary in 71. Fitting conclusion to this entire saga. Did he choose 71 because his knees are that old?

I'm not so sure it's Franzen's production that people have a gripe about. At least for me personally, it's more the appearance that Franzen doesn't show up to play every game. He is a great value for the contract, but that doesn't make floating and lack of effort acceptable. Franzen's massive playoff years probably skewed some expectations, though in reality Franzen hasn't performed at all in the playoffs since then. So, when your fallback is "playoff performer" and then you don't do that anymore -- combined with the floating during the regular season, that's where fans start to get upset with Franzen. I agree that Weiss centering a line should help out Franzen this season. He needs somebody to do most of the work.

That's not on Cleary -- he didn't force Holland into giving him the contract. It isn't selfish; Cleary took below market value to stay. The blame here lies solely on Ken Holland again being overly loyal and filling this team with veterans at the expense of talented youth. I don't fault Cleary for wanting to play for this organization still. He can probably get two more contracts by sticking around. Brunner wants somewhere around three million. Where have there been any reports claiming he would sign for anything close to what Cleary did, for only one season no less?

What I initially wanted: Z - Datsyuk - Alfredsson Nyquist - Weiss - Franzen Abdelkader - Helm - Tatar Miller - Andersson - Bertuzzi/Eaves Expectation with Cleary: Z - Datsyuk - Abdelkader Franzen - Weiss - Alfredsson Cleary - Andersson - Bertuzzi Miller - Emmerton - probably Samuelsson at this rate

Samuelsson is around, so I doubt Cleary will be the worst player at camp. The money and term aren't bad for Cleary, but I just can't get around how completely unnecessary this move is. He's a better player than Sammy or Bert, though having all three around is ridiculous. Nyquist is somehow going to start in Grand Rapids, which is an insult to him because he deserves to be in the NHL. Real puzzling decision by Holland after a strong summer otherwise. His obsession with veterans and loyalty to certain players goes overboard too often.

This is one of the most bizarre signings if Cleary ends up back in Detroit. Are Samuelsson, Bertuzzi and Cleary all really going to members of the team? I thought Holland had a great summer, but this move is a real damper.

Solid argument. I have stated many times I don't want Cleary back. I'm just merely defending him from people that made him the scapegoat for everything wrong with the Red Wings. You bash Cleary at nearly every opportunity. If you don't want him back that's fine, but maybe try considering the context of my argument instead of just pure dismissal.

I guess all of that is irrelevant to me. If Cleary had not produced points, people would have piled on him even more. Especially since Cleary was receiving a lot of ice time. Cleary gets "ugly" goals/points because he puts himself into position to do so. Maybe if Franzen and Filppula would have done the same, they could have gotten themselves some more "illegitimate" points. I think discrediting a player's production is rather silly. Players get deflections off their body when they go to the front of the net, not float around the perimeter like Franzen and Filppula did. Hockey is a weird game of bounces and you clearly were just focusing on the negatives in your analysis of Cleary to further diminish his value to the team. I could analyze Franzen and Filppula's play and come up with a whole lot of invisibility. I will stand by my original point that Cleary was useful in the playoffs. You attempted to do the same thing for Brunner when he didn't get re-signed.

He was pretty useful during the unexpected playoff run. Significantly injured no less and still more productive than Franzen and Filppula.

Not sure it has as much to do with Cleary's desire to stay with the Red Wings, as it does the Wings have no space to make the move. I think if both sides had their way, Cleary would still be in Detroit. Not that I'm disappointed in Cleary moving on to the Flyers, but in reality Holland's awful contract to Samuelsson probably prevented Cleary from staying. So for once, I'm thankful to have that horrible deal. As you stated, I completely agree that three years is far too long for a player breaking down physically. Cleary is one of my favorites, but I am relieved that the Red Wings don't have another roster spot potentially being taken away from Nyquist/Tatar. Regardless, I am grateful for Cleary's dedication and service to the organization. Remarkable story from training camp invite to a major contributor on a championship team and one that came within a game of another. I personally became a huge Cleary fan because of his work-ethic and heart. He fell down a ton at the end, but he was always out there competing hard every shift. Anticipating Cleary outworking Franzen for a loose puck or two on October 12th.

This one is easier for me than the forwards. For me, it is DeKeyser easily. I think the Red Wings beat the Blackhawks with a healthy DeKeyser. Their forecheck gave the Red Wings fits and DeKeyser's speed/puck-moving ability was something the Red Wings really lacked in that series defensively. His poise and steadiness really solidified the defense at the end of last season.

I don't feel so bad about USA's anymore. These are equally awful.