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  1. Today
  2. Oldtimehockey97

    NHL Diversity

    I was considering joining this forum to discuss hockey but saw some of your outrageous posts and the moderators letting them stay. I’m not sure it’s worth it as I don’t like to engage with possible trolls but felt it necessary to challenge some of your biased posts. While there are many, I tried to respond to them in just a single post instead of individually thus the paragraphs may not flow seamlessly as I address various topics: The nhl is one of the most diverse leagues out there with players from many countries. The fact you ignore the various cultures and just look at skin color is in itself ignorant. By your logic are all Asians the same? All Africans the same too? You have an extremely bigoted view if so. The fact you say your not aiming for diversity of thought or culture, rather just skin color is simply... racist. Thought and culture are more important elements than skin color by far. It’s unfortunate you see it the opposite way. While you rag on the nhl, you say nothing about lack of diversity among players in nba and nfl with 83% and 70% black respectively and namely all from a single country no less. Why not? It goes both ways. I’m a fan of meritocracy. Are you implying teams pass over more higher skilled minorities in the draft? That would be ridiculous. I’d like to see your evidence of the nhl being racist. The hockey is for everyone campaign was much more of an attempt at inclusion that welcomed everyone as a means to do outreach and grow the game. Yet you say the NHL does nothing? People watch hockey and pay for the game, not to be pandered to. And yes the issue is political as well as social. Your statements of ‘white players recognizing their racism’ and ‘we need to cancel hockey for human rights’ is a problem. Generalizing people creates resentment. Do you think minorities should also undergo anti-bias training to prevent them from thinking all whites are racist? Racism is a human problem that knows no color. Do you see racism everywhere? Like if you turn over a stone it might jump out and bite you? The NHL needs to focus on hockey and inclusion. It doesn’t need to be bringing politics or other issues into it through black jerseys or black lines. Many people have been discriminated against, not just blacks. That said, blacks have very much been economically discriminated against and that needs to change. Fixing that will lead to more opportunities, less poverty, less runs ins with cops, and ability to afford to play the expensive game of hockey. Perhaps the NHL doesn’t want to rush to judgement on the Jacob Blake situation. You know as more information comes out? Maybe they believe, as many do, that politics should stay out of sports? Have you seen the new info? While the situation definitely should have been handled better and he shouldn’t have been shot, the guy is no martyr. He had a felony warrant and was fighting police. The police were called on him which media failed to mention. Your accusation against Yzerman is just dumb. Do you have evidence of his desire to ‘purify’ the team or are you pulling it out of your ass? I liked AA, but he was not a 200 foot player as evidenced by his terrible plus minus. Hirose looked promising but hasn’t produced. Daley and Bowey? C’mon, they are depth guys. As for your fighting words reference, I think you need to reread the cases that narrowed the scope. ‘Intent to elicit immediate violent response’ is required to fall under fighting words. Obscene words are subjective and while they can be offensive, they don’t always fall under fighting words. Think of how many rap songs would fall under that prohibited speech! Following that, you respond to someone clarifying your message as alt-right without any evidence. Are those fighting words? Do you always assume and jump to conclusions and attack someone’s character instead of engaging in intellectual dialogue? Try to be better than that. People like you who attack others with no evidence and try to bully people into submission through attempting to assassinate their character need to be stood up to. You have opinions? Great, but you need to realize they are just yours and like assholes, everyone has one. You also need to take your own advice and stick to talking hockey. The nhl doesn’t need to follow other leagues and bend the knee much like anyone else. You can be fully for equality and respect the flag or want to keep politics out of hockey. Your constant accusation that the nhl is racist seems like baseless smears given the campaigns they’ve initiated. As long as the nhl promotes equality and inclusion, it doesn’t have to be forced to make any ‘stand’ based on issues that happen outside of its control. Unfortunately, the NHL seems to be getting woke and bringing in “diversity trainers” to tell them just how awful people they are. We’ll see if it’s successful or if their ratings take a hit like the NBA. https://theharrispoll.com/poll-38-of-sports-fans-say-nba-is-too-political-as-reason-they-are-watching-less/
  3. _SP_

    NHL Diversity

    I already told him that. Still too racist. EIGHT colleges in Ohio have hockey. There are eight college basketball teams within 50 miles of the Ohio/Michigan line.
  4. Yesterday
  5. ChristopherReevesLegs

    2020 Offseason

    No
  6. Neomaxizoomdweebie

    Dylan Larkin Is Soft

    Followed up with more ads on the website.
  7. Neomaxizoomdweebie

    2020 Offseason

    Are we allowed to like any other pizza besides Little Caesar's in here?
  8. diehardredwingsfan58

    2020 Offseason

    My favorite, Just had some yesterday.
  9. Neomaxizoomdweebie

    NHL Diversity

    It's not always about income. Hockey isnt a sport you can just run down to your local park and play. In a lot of communities (of any demographic), hockey rinks require a car/bus/subway/train ride to get to. It takes a lot more effort to play because access can be an issue. It's hard to get kids of any background to dedicate themselves to a niche sport like hockey, when there are easier mainstream options available.
  10. Neomaxizoomdweebie

    2020 Offseason

    Like when you were in school and dated a cute girl until she got fat, then you started dating the girl who hangs out with the kids from "Stranger Things".
  11. _SP_

    NHL Diversity

    2) I've learned that when entering topics of debate like this, it is crucial to define certain vocabulary and agree upon it. Clear cut, I define racism as the belief that someone of another race is intrinsically inferior to you or other races. If you two want to define it in any other way, please let me know. This. I 100% cannot stand "ghetto" of any color. I went to school with ghetto that was of ALL colors. It is a LIFESTYLE - NOT an intrinsic aspect of anyone's birth. Black people aren't born ghetto. Those that are ghetto, are raised in it and raised to follow those lifestyles. It's not a color. That's why, there are ghetto white people and ghetto Latinos in Detroit, L.A., my Ohio city.... etc. Hell, Eminem made his LIVING as being a ghetto white dude. People associate that with color, because that's what they've been taught Black is. I think THAT, of all things, is the most racist assumption. I have found, that most people who believe "blacks need saving", are speaking for inherently racist standpoints with no actual interaction with black people on a regular basis. I lived it. Black people don't need saving from white racists. Black people need saving from gang culture. Hell, most white racists will never meet a black person in their lives - they're always the idiots missing teeth living in a town of 89 and not a black person within 80 miles. Bet CRL will be coming in next to thank you for saving your black wife. Without your good deed, but what would have come of her?!
  12. mackel

    2020 Offseason

    I see ole Busty Zadina is injury prone to boot... https://amp.detroitnews.com/amp/5864877002 Atleast Hughes didn't win the Calder, that would have added insult to Busty's injury.
  13. martyrme19

    NHL Diversity

    Oh hey guys. I'll jump in this fight if ya'll don't mind. Two things that I want to clarify before doing so: 1) First would be my anecdotal life experience with the black community. My long time significant other is black, I'm white. I'm very well entrenched in her family/community that reside, for the greater part, in South Chicago. She is also the co-founder of the business we own together. The business is a financial service that disproportionately benefits from our services. I don't want to get into too much detail because I don't want to dox myself. I should say that we also employ a good number of black people as well. 2) I've learned that when entering topics of debate like this, it is crucial to define certain vocabulary and agree upon it. Clear cut, I define racism as the belief that someone of another race is intrinsically inferior to you or other races. If you two want to define it in any other way, please let me know. CRL - If I can summarize, you asked SP if the past atrocities by white people is the reason for the issues they face today. I believe the answer is yes and no. Obviously you cannot deny that many black people wouldn't be here if it weren't for slavery. And those that would be, would have done so of their own accord and likely more successful than average. The continued oppression that black people faced certainly kept many of them from reaching their potential in life and caused their communities to be more prone to toxic However, I do not believe that those past hardships are experienced by today's black society. I believe your point is that because of the past, you surely cannot expect Black America to be any better off than they are now. I would agree, but to a much less degree than you, I am sure. With all of my life experiences and knowledge, what I believe is this. Though it's obviously true that the black community has suffered in the past, those hardships have little to no bearing on a black person's day to day life right now. I believe, however, that during those hardships, there are a lot of voices in those communities that speak up about many different ideals, cultural norms and mores. It is up to that community to decide which voices to listen to and follow. Unfortunately for the black community, they have made a lot of critical mistakes by choosing to listen to the wrong voices. Now, this could literally happen to any other group of people put in the same situation. I don't believe they are predispositioned to make these bad choices. Hindsight is 20/20. But these choices that are made over decades have created a disproportionately toxic culture that has now turned on itself so much that it is the number one thing impeding black advancement. I know this because the people who abide to and succumb to today's black culture do not thrive. Rather, they parish in terrible ways. The one's who often reject those ideals and norms (such as my significant other) very often thrive and become successes. Then, they are excommunicated from black society and culture. You keep calling CP racist. But I bet you that he's never insulted a black person to their face (or online or whatever have you). I bet he's never told a black youth that 76% of this country hates him and wants to keep him from succeeding. I bet you he's never made a black youth feel discouraged about how successful he can be in life. But, I bet YOU have. You make asinine assumptions about the majority of American's and project yourself as a neutral voice for White America. You lift yourself up in life by beating other white people down. You're different than everyone else, right? Special. Everyone is racist except you. You belong to a small elite class that isn't racist. How convenient that the standard you've built in your head to measure your success and worth as a human is completely based on something that you and you alone can arbitrarily and ambiguously measure. People like you tell a young black boy how much White America hates him, how they want to see him addicted to drugs and thrown in jail before he's even 18. He believes that 76% of people hate him before he's ever met any of them. You spout your agenda as if it's gospel. It's easy to do since your fight is so selfless, right? There's no accountability for you whatsoever because if your intentions are right, what harm could you be doing? Human nature is to hate those that we believe hate us. If it's your life duty to spout off to black people how much they're hated, that will only create animosity. Blacks will believe they have to fight back, not live amongst. White people see them fighting back....trying to bring their way of life down (a life where they never wished harm on anyone). They now believe that black people must assuredly hate them. You've now created your self-fulfilling prophecy. You've created hate. With your message, black people can never self-reflect and come to the realization that only they can change the toxic parts of their culture. That more than what any other white person can do for them, they can make the most change in their live's by their actions and their actions alone. I believe people like you are the ones who create the biggest divide between races. But there is no way to convince you of that. The scariest thing is a person who causes harm with a good conscience.
  14. Neomaxizoomdweebie

    2020 Draft Thread

    >Ken Holland traded to Detroit for a 2021 1st round pick >Yzerman pulls a Robert California and convinces Melnyk to give him complete control of over all of his assets.
  15. _SP_

    NHL Diversity

    Because there is much, much greater emphasis in the United States on football and baseball. The amount of money the elite players make on the field - not including endorsements - are 3-5x the amount. Highest earners in the NHL average $12-13M. Highest earners in (non-sport) NASCAR average $17.5M. Highest earners in the NFL average $35M. Highest earners in the MLB average $35M. Highest earners in the NBA average $37M. There is more money in the other American sports. There is more money thrown at it from the broadcast companies (majority of their revenue). There are more viewers. And, thus, there is more youth following. 48% of NCAA football players are black. 54% of NCAA basketball players are black. 69% of NFL players are black. 74% of NBA players are black. They just flock to those sports unlike any other. Do we have a racial diversity problem there, when 14% of the population makes up 74% of a sport's player base? 93% of NHL athletes are white. But only 25% of all players are from the U.S. The majority are from Canada which, last I checked, rubs it in the faces of Americans that Canada is a cultural safe haven for all people. But... must be my racist ass in Ohio that prevents black people from playing hockey? Meanwhile, neither my high school NOR MY ENTIRE SCHOOL DISTRICT! offered a hockey team, because I went to a poor public high school so................................. once again, income, not race, issue.
  16. ChristopherReevesLegs

    NHL Diversity

    Okay so then if average blacks and average whites largely make the same. Why aren't blacks playing an expensive sport like hockey?
  17. _SP_

    NHL Diversity

    https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/visualizations/2018/demo/p60-263/figure1.pdf Guess Asians are racist too, eh? Did you know, income disparity is so large, that the top ten U.S. earners skew that data for "white people" so largely, it's incomprehensible? Bezos, Gates, Buffett, Zuckerberg, Ellison, Page, Balmer, Brin, Boomberg, and the three Waltons combine a net worth of $805 BILLION. And that has not been recalculated since their windfalls during the pandemic, of which we know Bezos alone has increased his wealth (which is mostly Amazon share related) to become the first man with $200 BILLION net worth. The MEDIAN net worth in the U.S. is $98,000. The MEAN (or AVERAGE) is $700,000. THAT is how much the super wealthy "skew" all these statistics about how much better the EVIL WHITE MAN has it. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/11/01/how-wealth-inequality-has-changed-in-the-u-s-since-the-great-recession-by-race-ethnicity-and-income/ We don't have a race problem. We have an accessibility problem to folks that aren't in the upper income brackets, period. https://brokenclipboard.wordpress.com/2016/04/14/the-elitist-game/ According to The Trusted Source for Sports Parents, the average cost for an entire season of youth football is $558 per child. After football came baseball, which was averaged at around $385 with a bat being a majority of the cost. Ahead of both of these was lacrosse, which tallied up to $565 and was only less expensive than ice hockey. While this is certainly a large amount of money, it is relatively inexpensive when compared to the expenses that come along with playing ice hockey. To put it into perspective, one pair of Bauer Supreme ice hockey skates is available for pre-order with a $950 price tag. Ice hockey is a serious commitment financially and has been since the conception of the game. Since the dawn of ice hockey there has always been an imbalance, with regards to class status, in the opportunity one has to compete in the sport. In the early days of ice hockey in North America, circa 1904, there were five teams in the first professional league (IHL): four American teams and one Canadian team. An analysis of newspapers from hosting IHL cities and non-hosting cities in 2004 showed just how much class can alter the perception of hockey (Mason & Duquette, 2004). One of the American cities that hosted an IHL team was Pittsburgh, which is known for its working-class people who spent most of their days working in steel mills. The newspapers in IHL cities focused on the physicality of the league, and also incorporated more detail about the game and how much blue-collar people were supportive of the teams. On the contrary, the major Canadian newspapers, which had less space for stories, were only highlighting the violent nature of the IHL and the absurdity of player salaries in such a low skill level league. The reason these players were less skilled than the elite Canadian teams is because they didn’t have the same amount of income to spend on hockey, and thus never got the proper training and equipment required to be successful. With higher circulation numbers the major Canadian newspapers had given the IHL a violent reputation that scared off new recruits and essentially halted the progress that lower-class people were making in regards to playing hockey. Hockey was dominated by the middle and upper class before the IHL and when it disbanded in 1907 the class-based dominance started up once again (Mason & Duquette, 2004). With the restoration of the elite view of Canadian hockey the lower class began getting weeded out of the game and middle and upper class took control. Even a century later the aforementioned imbalance still holds true because families with an average income just cannot afford to have a child play hockey because of the incredibly steep costs that come with playing. The material circumstances, or “the economic conditions underlying the society,” are why it is so difficult to immerse someone into the game of hockey (Dobie, 2002). The initial costs are staggering and that alone can deter someone from wanting to start playing hockey. The reason hockey is the smallest, as far as viewership, around the United States when compared to football, baseball, and basketball, is because it isn’t as readily available to start playing and thus receives less recognition. Steve Wulf, Senior Writer at ESPN and father of a hockey player, broke down the average cost of playing hockey throughout a child’s youth career. In 2013 he tallied a grand total of $48,850, which he admits doesn’t even cover many variable fees such as gas, food when traveling, and mileage put on the family car (Wulf, 2013). $48,850 – in 2013 the average household income was $51,939, according to the U.S. Census Bureau, which is only $3,089 more than Wulf’s estimated average cost. These figures go to show that even a family with the average income in America would have a tough time setting aside enough money each year for their son or daughter to play hockey throughout his or her childhood. With these substantial costs many families are almost eliminated from the possibility of having one or more of their children play ice hockey at any level. The aforementioned average expense of $48,850 is exactly that, an average. Many hockey players who want to play at a high level also incur much higher fees when it comes to things such as private lessons, teams that travel more frequently, and top-of-the-line gear, which they hope will give them a competitive advantage. The pieces of high-end equipment that are most sought after are helmets, gloves, sticks, and skates. If parents were to buy their kid top-of-the-line gear, just in these four categories, it would cost them $1,690, which just isn’t realistic for most families. This calculation also doesn’t consider the fact that sticks break frequently and kids’ bodies grow as well, resulting in purchasing of new gear almost every year for some pieces of equipment. With the annual purchasing of some new gear and season dues, a family that isn’t at least middle class would have a very tough time buying the necessary equipment to allow their child to play, let alone succeed. As a whole, being a member of a lower class family does not crush your chance of playing hockey, but it does hinder the chance of playing at an advanced level. Paying for the bare essentials, gear and team dues, will allow you to play but without outside lessons and additional training odds are there won’t be much advancement for that player. While hockey, just like other competitive sports, provides kids with life lessons it might not be worth the cost for some families when they can have their child partake in a much cheaper sport such as soccer or basketball. Unlike most other sports, hockey requires that all parts of the body be protected during play and thus has the largest quantity of gear, resulting in much more purchasing of equipment as the player gets older. I have played organized hockey since I was five-years-old and my parents always made sure that I had good-fitting gear and equipment that would ensure my safety. Paying for hockey wasn’t an issue because they were incredibly passionate about the sport and wanted me to compete in something I loved as well. The thought of not being able to play hockey solely because of the financial burden that it imposes on families is very disheartening. I never ran into the problem of wanting to play more hockey, or practice more, and not being able to because my parents couldn’t afford it; and I just finished my last year of playing ACHA hockey. If I got to play whenever I wanted, got the gear I needed, and devoted so much of my time to playing and still never played professionally then imagine how hard it must be for someone who doesn’t have those options. While everyone’s goal may not be to play at that high of a level some people never even get the chance to try hockey and see if they enjoy it enough to pursue that dream. The high cost of playing ice hockey is a deterrent for many families and that is why it has not and will not grow to be as large as other sports in the United States. Lower class families don’t really have a chance to play hockey and middle class families have to decide if they want to spend a large chunk of their income on one sport, rather than paying for a cheaper sport and doing other things with their remaining income. The culture of hockey is very much that of a blue-collar family, in that it requires extensive work and financial dedication to be successful, but those same principles exclude those very people from being able to partake in the sport. Many National Hockey League (NHL) players played junior hockey before making it to the League, but those costs are the steepest of them all, and fewer than 5% of those junior players make the NHL. Ice hockey is becoming too expensive for most families and even if a child begins playing at a young age it is still a massive financial commitment that can often times not be upheld. As long as the cost to play hockey is so high it will continue to be less dominant than those sports that people of all class levels can play.
  18. ChristopherReevesLegs

    NHL Diversity

    Then why are blacks on average more poor than whites in this country? You say all it takes is hard work... well then that implies blacks don't work hard. Is that really what you want to suggest?
  19. _SP_

    NHL Diversity

    And, no, the NHL doesn't have a COLOR diversity problem. The NHL has an INCOME diversity problem. Poor kids cannot play hockey. Which, is something else I already said, but you're a ******* douchebag. My 255 posts, of which 4-6% are in this thread... or your 12,377 posts of trolling and being a piece of s***. Right.
  20. ChristopherReevesLegs

    NHL Diversity

    This is exactly the type of bigotry the HDA is fighting against. Sickening. Sweetie, you are exactly why good people no longer traffic this board.
  21. _SP_

    NHL Diversity

    I never once said blacks don't work hard. I specifically asked you to explain how successful black people do it. And you, in typical fashion, avoided the statement. It's real simple, and kids of all color can follow: work hard in school + stay out of gangs + work hard after school = success. Hard work doesn't care what color your skin is. Also, you're the one that mentioned double-wide trailers you piece of s*** trash. Opposite. Soft on the outside and hard on the inside.
  22. xault

    NHL Diversity

    Is it at least Larkin soft?
  23. ChristopherReevesLegs

    NHL Diversity

    SP's take on the NHL's diversity problem: 1. Blacks don't work hard. 2. Blacks like to join gangs and kill each other 3. Irrelevant ramblings about credit card debt, houses, family affairs, growing up in the ghetto, and orlando florida Please continue to enlighten us with your racially charged personal anecdotes. Everyone on the website loves it I'm sure. Just ordered. Only $80.00 + shipping.
  24. _SP_

    NHL Diversity

    Dude, f*** off. Typical troll just wants to be fed. That's why there's only 20-30 people online anymore on any given day, because people like you are literal douchebags and make this place so unpleasant. Why don't you start by reading my first two posts again, v...errr....yyy... sl....oww....ly this time. Maybe you'll learn something. I hear you're ****... but apparently for BBC too?? LMFAO Timeshares??????????? OH BOY! Good luck. You obviously need financial education. Anyway, I screenshot it for you, since you missed it the first time around. Black responsibility.... Not their responsibility... Conclusion.... . Prove me wrong.
  25. _SP_

    NHL Diversity

    It's not. lol
  26. xault

    NHL Diversity

    Still looks like a comfy couch to me.
  27. ChristopherReevesLegs

    NHL Diversity

    Are you suggesting blacks don't work hard? Is that why that can't afford dog couches like you?
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