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Everything posted by GoWings1905
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2009 was the worst sports moment for me. I typically can get over a loss pretty quickly, but that one stung for a long time. Crosby skating around at the Joe with the Stanley Cup is nauseating. That 2009 team coasted through the regular season and never had the structure the 2008 champions did. It was actually the more talented team too with Hossa around. However, they flipped the switch in the playoffs, especially Ozzie. Injuries were the difference in the SCF. I will always believe if Datsyuk was fully healthy the entire series, the Red Wings repeat. I remember the third period in Game 7 seriously lasted about three minutes.
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Cleary was playing on one leg last year. I'm not going to dispute he's ideally a third liner, but your claim that he "sucks" up on a scoring line is absurd and false. Cleary scored 26 goals two seasons ago (second on the team) and has two other 20-goal seasons in Detroit. He had nine goals and 15 points during the 2009 playoffs playing with Zetterberg and Franzen mostly. Could -- or better yet, did -- Maltby ever do any of that? This is also keeping in mind Cleary is excellent defensively, kills penalties and works his tail off every shift. My "crush" has nothing to do with my judgment Cleary has been more valuable than Kirk Maltby. Besides one shift of Maltby and your hatred of Hudler, what exactly is your basis here?
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A differing opinion makes us idiots? You bash Hudler at every chance, so of course you are going to feel Maltby (or anyone) was more valuable. I recall Hudler scoring a huge goal in Game 4 of the 2008 SCF. Cleary is definitely more valuable than Maltby too. He does everything Maltby did and can play on a scoring line too. Cleary has been terrific in the playoffs for the Red Wings. Again, besides killing penalties and taking them, what was so great about Kirk Maltby?
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Yes, they were. In saying that, Maltby was easily the least valuable and replaceable of the three. Take away Maltby and you still have the two crucial elements of that line in Draper and McCarty. If you want to argue the Red Wings may not have won all four without one of those two, I would agree more.
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Why does that matter? The Red Wings still win all four without him. I'm not trying to diminish what Maltby did here, but he basically agitated and killed penalties. It should also be noted I didn't include Hudler on my list either, though he would have made it ahead of Maltby.
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No, I don't personally. Just saying in this context I think he's more valuable than Maltby.
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Players That Never Played in Detroit
GoWings1905 replied to Bring Back The Bruise Bros's topic in General
Along the Bertuzzi line, always liked Markus Naslund. -
That's easy to flip: imagine Maltby trying to score 25 goals in a top-six role.
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Depends on your interpretation of value. Hudler had some pretty significant offensive seasons while Maltby's effectiveness was decreasing rapidly during this time span. I am a little surprised at the lack of love for Ozzie so far. Saved what could have been a first round exit in 2008 and was brilliant the rest of the way. Would have won the Conn Smythe too in 2009 had his team scored more than two goals combined in Games 6 and 7.
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Not a big Franzen guy, but I feel like the shootout would be right up his alley as well. His hands are sick and he probably has the best wrist shot on the team. He could stay engaged and interested for that brief skate and attempt, right? I laughed. This thread is more humorous than anything.
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I got 61. Somehow the one big name I missed was Bertuzzi. Tried to go through each jersey number in my mind. I guess Mark Mowers in 44 was so memorable it made me forget Bert. Riley Sheahan was the one gamer. I got it because it happened recently thankfully.
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Cool thread -- quite the list of players to choose from in just a decade. I'm going to take the longevity factor into account mostly. 1. Lidstrom 2. Zetterberg 3. Datsyuk 4. Osgood 5. Yzerman (2002 playoff run alone made me boost him this high) 6. Rafalski 7. Franzen 8. Shanahan 9. Kronwall 10. Draper 11. Holmstrom 12. Stuart 13. Chelios 14. McCarty 15. Cleary 16. Schneider 17. Filppula 18. Helm 19. Howard 20. Drake (wasn't here long, huge impact in the 2008 playoffs though)
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Absolutely agree. I think the Cubs were ultimately just used to get Sanchez the deal he wanted with the Tigers. I love he's staying though. The ace in JV followed up by probably three number twos. Definitely the best rotation in the AL, right there with the Nationals for all of baseball. I also don't want to trade Porcello for a closer. The Tigers ideally need a young shortstop and/or starting pitcher back in return. The rumor of Porcello for Bourjos was laughable and I like Bourjos. If there isn't a really good deal out there for the Tigers, then hang on to Porcello and have some insane pitching depth. Wouldn't mind taking a shot with Brian Wilson in the closer's role. I would be stunned if DD goes into Spring Training letting a rookie close games on a team trying to win the World Series. Nobody internally is cut out for the job if Rondon isn't ready.
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I think the forwards definitely have an identity, particularly the bottom-six. The problem is the top-six is aging and can't score goals in the playoffs. Need a sniper and some size (said every year since Hossa left).
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The LA baseball teams are out of control. Josh Hamilton to the Angels, to go with Trout and Pujols. Both the Hamilton and Pujols deals are going to look really bad sooner than later, but that lineup is stacked in the short-term. Not sold on their starting pitching yet though. I don't think Tommy Hanson and Joe Blanton scare anyone after Weaver and Wilson. Meanwhile, looks like Anibal Sanchez may unfortunately be signing with the Cubs soon. Didn't anticipate the Tigers being able to retain him, but it definitely changes the look of the starting rotation entirely. Porcello can't have another inconsistent season.
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Cleary isn't a center -- that third line role is absolutely Helm's and rightfully so. I don't really prefer Abdelkader at center, but he'll definitey play there on the fourth line over Emmerton. Where's Drew Miller at? I would be stunned if all three of Nyquist, Brunner and Tatar are dressed and playing for the Red Wings right away.
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Hindsight is easy in the drafting process. You could make a long list of misses and poor selections for every team in the league. Cherry-picking the Kindl move doesn't mean Holland can't draft. I would also argue that the gap between top-five and 19th is massive most years. It's very tough to blow drafting that high because the best prospects are typically can't miss. 26 teams also passed on Brendan Smith and that looks pretty promising going forward.
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Why does cheap matter? It's not like the Red Wings were against the cap and needed roster filler.
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Holmstrom is likely done, Bertuzzi is cheap for a veteran and I can't really argue the Samuelsson point. That being said, look at the some of the names gone in just the past couple years alone: Lidstrom, Rafalski, Draper, Maltby, Osgood, Salei (RIP), Modano are no longer with the organization. It seems like the Red Wings have been the oldest team in the NHL forever and now I believe their average age is somewhere around 27. I think the biggest concern out of this youth movement is the fact our three best players aren't exactly young still. Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Kronwall are 34, 32 and 31 respectively. Add another year probably to all three by the time they play another hockey game. The Red Wings have stayed great for so long because they always have that next wave ready to step in and take over. Does that exist somewhere internally now when those three are done or slowed down having not ever been blessed with high picks? The Red Wings are in a different position going forward. When you win with a bunch of veterans, it's experience. When you lose, it's guys that are washed up. It's a tough balance to strike because I can almost guarantee there are going to be shortfalls to come with such a drastic roster transformation. I have said for years the Red Wings need new blood, but it makes me nervous when you consider the circumstances and the players getting replaced.
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The Red Wings have been getting younger, particularly at a pretty rapid pace the past two summers. Like Buppy stated, the Red Wings have been picking in the 20's for two decades now so it's tougher to inject quality young talent than say a Chicago did. Fortunately, nobody has scouted nor developed players from later rounds better than the Red Wings. Very few franchises can sustain success without having to go through a rebuild. 20 plus years in an era of free agency and parity is nothing short of impossible. The crossroads are here now for the Red Wings. They are younger and haven't picked high plus other teams have caught up in scouting. We are going to see an adjustment period and it may not be pretty short-term, but you can also already see the evidence that the front office is adapting to the league. We have needed to get bigger, faster and younger for years.
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Looks like the Tigs may have a new main challenger in the Central next season. The Royals gave up a ton, but they addressed their most glaring weakness. James Shields is an ace for them and Wade Davis is young and has potential. Typical trade too for the Rays and they will make out better long-term. I see the Royals finishing second at this point. The gap is still rather significant between the Tigers and everyone else though. The White Sox were a fluke for most of last year and I would be surprised if they can duplicate a serious run for the division again. The Indians need starting pitching and the Twins are horrible.
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If the lockout master is still around, I'm sure he could accomplish number four.
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You seem to be completely ignoring the point constantly brought up in rebuttal -- the context of the situations. When Helm was injured in the playoff series, what other choice did the Red Wings have to center the 4th line? Riley Sheahan with one game of NHL experience? Emmerton played because he was the best of very limited options. That isn't going to be the case with the depth the Red Wings have at forward now. The getting benched angle is pretty silly. Tootoo has a proven track record of being an effective 4th liner. EDIT: Miller-Abby-Tootoo is a sick 4th line, by the way. They will be fun to watch next October.
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Who is Emmerton going to dress over if everyone is healthy? The Red Wings already have a glut at forward and he's the least valuable player of the bunch. If Abby is going to center the 4th line as anticipated, there goes the one asset Emmerton had which got him on the ice. Besides, I don't want some marginally skilled player to waste 4th line minutes. We finally have guys on the team that actually serve the typical purpose of a 4th line. Provide energy, play physical, forecheck hard and wear on the other team's defense. That alone makes Tootoo infinitely more valuable in that role than Emmerton.
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US Congress and these clowns should all get together and have a contest on who can get less accomplished.