GoWings1905

Except he never actually plays center, nor is on the ice in close games. I don't dislike Hudler at all, but he's as one-dimensional as Tomas Holmstrom. You're the only person who thinks otherwise.

Don't get me wrong: Cabrera makes the Tigers offense go and he had a spectacular season, but I would have been a bit disappointed had he won or finished ahead of Verlander for MVP. Think about the Tigers pitching staff before Fister arrived. Max started great and then went really rough, Porcello struggled with consistency, Coke was awful and Penny was an adequate 5th starter pitching as a 4th. The Tigers got very hot in the second half, but Verlander's pitching basically kept them afloat until the Fister trade. 16 wins after a loss and he always saved a relatively thin bullpen. I guess during the season, in a way, I selfishly saw what Verlander was doing as a means for the Tigers to ultimately win games. Looking back now, I can't but help to realize and appreciate everything he accomplished. He is the MVP in every sense of the award. 2006 was amazing, but I will never forget this season.

This thread is going to get epic. I think the best part so far is Hudler being called "versatile". If completely one-dimensional was meant by that, then yes I'm on board.

Smith needs to stay with the team; he deserves it. I think Babcock really wants him around and Holland as usual wants Smith to spend more time in Grand Rapids. I don't usually have a beef with the "overripe" philosophy, but in this instance I don't agree with it. I'm not convinced 25 minutes per night would be any more help to Smith than 12-15 with the Red Wings learning from and playing alongside Nick Lidstrom and Nik Kronwall. Sure there are going to be some mistakes and a learning curve defensively for Smith, but he has look composed and very NHL-ready so far. I don't really have a problem with Ericsson or Kindl's play this season, but it appears so far that Smith's ceiling is quite a bit higher than Kindl's. Ericsson is very unlikely to get scratched, like it or not. Similar to Emmerton, he brings something to the team that the alternatives do not. If it means waiving Commodore to keep Smith, then I would do it in a second. Lidstrom / White Kronwall / Smith Ericsson / Stuart I can't justify putting Stuart back with Kronwall. Ericsson/Smith would get ugly defensively. Stuart would likely play with Kronwall anyways late in close games.

LetsGoPens.com is interested in your services.

Except Smith is nowhere near Stuart's level defensively. Maybe that develops in time for Smith, but right now it's not even close. If anyone is expendable with Smith around, it becomes Kindl because the two are relatively similar. A 1st round pick too for Selanne? No, thanks.

WOO HE DID IT! Nobody deserved to be MVP more than JV and I'm glad the writers recognized this, which I truly didn't expect to happen. I want to know who the idiot is that left Verlander off the ballot entirely. This was truly a once-in-a-lifetime season we got to watch as Tigers fans. I don't doubt Verlander can do it again or come close, but everything he accomplished this year is just staggering. How many times in baseball can you turn on a game and call it an automatic win? Thanks JV!

Weekend Picks

That was a really strong game playing two consecutive days. Only four points out of first place in the conference after some rough stretches is not too bad at all. - Jimmy Howard is one of the best goalies in the league right now and hopefully going forward. - Stuart should have been first star. Beyond the two goals, he was brilliant defensively tonight. - Zetterberg was a force at both ends of the ice. - Great effort on the last two PK's by Cleary. - Smith needs to stay on the team. Nice win Wings!

There's nothing Holland can do right now. I don't know what people expect from him at this point. I said it in the GDT last night, but there aren't impact players available with so many competitive teams in the league. The teams will spread out more by March, but even then it's going to be tough to get major value without selling off a ton back. Also, what do the Red Wings really have to offer on their roster right now? Trust me, I think the Red Wings need some new faces as much as anyone. That being said, I expect it to occur next summer. You have to feel bad for Lidstrom more than anything if this season continues to play out in a mediocre fashion.

Agreed. I'm not too concerned with a backup catcher, but Laird would have been pretty low on my list of choices. If he can keep Avila fresh and play adequate defense, I guess it will be fine. Let's just hope Inge, Laird and Kelly all don't get starts on the same day. Now we get to hear Rod Allen talk about G-Money all of the time again. Rod loves those guys with similar batting averages as he had.

I don't even care to see the answer. It's bad enough the question has to be asked.

That's because Franzen and Filppula can't do it. Neither has an ounce of consistency. Agreed about Datsyuk and Zetterberg though. This team is toast without those two and I'm less convinced every game either one is going to turn it around for good.

Agreed, but it can't/won't happen. The NHL is too competitive now, especially this early in the season. No one is going to move anything of value at a time when most teams feels they could make a run at the playoffs. Beyond that, what the hell do the Red Wings have to offer? They have practically no assets to offer in exchange. Unfortunately, I think we are stuck with the mediocrity for the duration of this season. Obviously need major changes in many areas going forward.

Interesting move with Abby. Hope those lines spark some offense tonight. Hate Holmstrom on the 4th line, especially with Eaves not playing. Just scratch Homer instead of wasting that line with Emmerton and Miller. This game will get ugly if the Red Wings play like they did on Tuesday. The Sharks will run them out of the building with their skill compared to the Blues. Get it going Pav and Z!

Gerald Laird? Really? :puke:

I definitely understand that opinion and respect it. I like Young (more than I expected even), but I feel like Prado is a much better fit for the Tigers right now. My guess would be Prado would start at second for the Tigers. Nice part though is he can also play third base and left field, all three being areas of need this winter. Prado isn't overly fast, but he hits for enough average to bat in one of the first two spots in the order depending on Jackson. I'm still not sold on Young as a three-hitter (too many K's, RBI numbers way down) and I do seem him as expendable if Boesch is healthy. Adding another outfielder is much easier to do in this free agent class than finding someone to start at second and/or third. Josh Willingam is out there or take a shot with Grady Sizemore and have Raburn/Dirks fill in when needed. I feel ya on Uggla. How about Cabrera-Uggla-Martinez hitting 3-4-5 in the order? I just want this revolving door at second to end. None of the internal options appear to be a long-term solution either.

Then we are going to see a lot more games like last night and the six-game losing streak. Franzen and Filppula are too streaky to carry the team offensively. Datsyuk and Zetterberg HAVE to get it going or I truly don't see this team making the playoffs in a very competitive conference.

At least Pavel admits it. Too many of these guys on the team seem content with just getting by, where underachieving doesn't force a difference in effort nor results. I hate the fact that we have to discuss this "laziness" plague we see from the Red Wings so often. Nobody even came remotely close to outworking the 2008 team. Sure they were talented, but they wanted it more than anyone too. I also tend to agree with those saying linemates shouldn't be the sole excuse for Pavel's play. He was with Z for awhile too and they managed very little offensively. Great players make everyone else around them better and Pavel has produced before playing with the likes of Cleary, Holmstrom, Franzen, etc. The problem with the Red Wings is there are no internal top-six replacements. I think we can debate Cleary and Holmstrom's worthiness all day of that role, but in reality what other options do the Wings have? I agree with switching Filppula and Cleary around, but there's only so many line combinations possible. The players just need to go out and do it and that starts with Datsyuk and Zetterberg.

Congrats to JV on the well-earned Cy Young. I think he is the MVP, but I would be shocked if he actually wins. I really want to see the Tigers get Martin Prado too. The Braves owe us for the Jurrjens disaster of a trade, so they should probably just go ahead and take Delmon Young and call it even.

Don't mistake bad games with consistent lack of effort. There's a huge difference.

No, you definitely aren't alone but I think that worthless category is far from exclusive to Cleary. It applied to about 15 other players tonight as well.

Agreed. Time to play Smith at least on this road trip and see what he brings. I was never a big fan of the Commodore signing to begin with and he has shown nothing to change my mind so far. He's slow and hasn't been physical either. I think prospects being "overripe" is fine when the veterans are playing well, as is the team. Neither is the case and the Red Wings could use some fresh energy and youth around.

I think you are implying on paper the Wings should have won, because no way in hell did they deserve it. They shouldn't be rewarded for efforts like that. I would say you hope a loss like that turns things around the next game, but the history of late with this group says otherwise.

What the hell happened to Pavel Datsyuk and Henrik Zetterberg? I understand their linemates (especially Pavel's) are pretty rough at times, but those two have always produced regardless of their wingers. They didn't play well together either so blaming it on the current situation isn't entirely fair. The best players make everyone around them better and quite frankly neither has look interested most games so far. It's going to be a very long year if those two don't get it together quickly. The Red Wings look so slow too. Granted, no forecheck and clogging the neutral zone like Hitchcock always does will do that to teams. So glad we get to watch the boring ass Blues, Predators and Blue Jackets 18 times while the Red Wings look completely lost trying to pass through four guys at the blueline each game. I feel bad for Jimmy Howard. He competes harder than the rest of the team combined besides a 41-year-old Lidstrom and Darren Helm. Losing is one thing, but this lack of effort is so unacceptable. Nothing will change either unless Holland forces it to happen. Too many comfortable players that have been here that can't/won't put in the effort because there are no consequences nor alternatives.