GoWings1905

I think it would be silly to trade Stuart this season. Remember the prevailing sentiment was that Stuart was also going to go back home in 2008 too after the Red Wings won it all. At this point, he's still a very valuable member to this defense (which looks way better so far) and he has always stepped up his game even more in the playoffs. I guess I don't quite understand what more people expect from Stuart. He kills penalties, blocks shots and is consistently one of the Red Wings strongest d-men in his own zone. I highly doubt the return for a pending free agent is going to get the Red Wings "Stuart value" back in exchange. Yeah, it's a huge hole if both Lidstrom and Stuart end up leaving next summer but then you really make a run at Suter and another top-four player with all of the cap space.

Weekend Picks Sorry the reminder is a bit late, everyone. I haven't been around the past two days to post it. Also, if a mod could pin this thread, it would be greatly appreciated. It snuck off the first page last week and I know that had an effect on getting picks in for Friday.

Poor isn't the right word. He had 26 goals for the second highest scoring team in the league last season. I don't disagree with you about Datsyuk needing a different winger at the moment, as I even stated in my last post I prefer Filppula on his line. That being said, who else is "better" in that role that the Red Wings have on their roster? Hudler is the only real option and Babcock doesn't seem willing to give him consistent top-six minutes. Bertuzzi clearly doesn't belong on the top two lines and everyone else on the team definitely is only suited for the third and fourth lines. It's easy to say Cleary isn't a top-six forward when things aren't going well for him. No one besides the dude here that always ******* about Cleary was complaining last season when he played a ton of time with both Datsyuk and Zetterberg and produced fine. The fact is the Red Wings don't have a legitimate sniper, which is why they scored six goals in six games. It isn't as "simple" as you stated just for the sheer fact the Red Wings don't have a goal-scoring winger to just put on Datsyuk's wing, so they have to deal with the streakiness that comes from Franzen, Cleary and Filppula instead.

Right now, I would say that's fairly obvious. As a general statement though, I disagree. Cleary is streaky like Franzen, but he was still second on the team in goals last year. I have said in other threads I would prefer Filppula on Datsyuk's wing -- at least until Cleary gets healthy -- because I do think that is affecting Cleary quite a bit so far.

Jimmy looks terrific. I also like the fact the Red Wings defense has really cut down on the shots against most games so far this season. Seems to me like their positioning and play in front of the net is significantly better than the past few years. Datsyuk had a great night with nothing to show. I want to see Filppula on his wing instead of Cleary for a bit. Eaves is such a perfect role player. There is no reason he shouldn't dress every night when healthy with his hard work and PK ability. He's easily the best shot-blocking forward on the team. 4-1-1 homestand would be very nice after the horrendous start. Good effort tonight, guys!

Weekend Picks

That's fine. It doesn't change Franzen not having a shot on goal tonight or a goal in six games.

As always, you add so much to any discussion. And yes, I'm the one person here that is frustrated with Franzen.

Franzen played 11 more games too. Franzen doesn't have invisible stretches? He's practically useless when he isn't scoring in major bunches.

True, but I always believed Hossa was the right choice long-term for the Red Wings. The bitterness of the 2009 playoffs doesn't change he's a far better player than Franzen.

Obviously, I think it appears some new blood is needed. However, the Red Wings have little or nothing to trade to get that. Filppula is the only NHL asset; we don't even want Franzen so I doubt some other team will. Hossa scored his 6th goal tonight. That looks like a poorer decision more every day.

There is clearly something very wrong with the Red Wings, but the more I see of this losing streak, the more I believe other teams have figured the Wings out. The Red Wings are at their best with the puck (a lot) and their ability to get their skilled players in open space to create scoring chances. It seems fairly obvious opponents realize this and are forcing the Red Wings into coughing the puck up by clogging the neutral zone or forcing low percentage shots from the perimeter. It blew my mind tonight how the Red Wings can't/won't dump the puck in and chase it when the Flames sat back with the lead. The only player on the team that is willing to forecheck hard and go after the puck in deep is Helm. Everyone else wants to make fancy passes and skate through five guys at the blueline. The Wild and Flames were hardly making any attempt to put the pressure on the Red Wings. Take advantage of a couple mistakes and poor calls and let the Wings self-destruct with their inability to do the things that can end a scoring drought. There's too much talent on the Red Wings roster to just say all of them can't score goals now, a mere couple months after a regular season where they were second in the league in offense. They certainly need a legit sniper (or three), but at this time they need to make adjustments and work harder to score some goals. I don't know what else can be said. They can keep doing what they have done expecting better or decide enough is enough and rally as a team quickly before it gets ugly where the playoffs are in serious jeopardy. There is no quick fix in the minors or via trade this early in the season. Work harder Saturday and turn this thing around.

No. Bertuzzi sucked in the five wins too. I'm an equal opportunity proponent of the bench Bertuzzi movement. Seriously though, he has to stop taking stupid penalties. Using your stick as a sledge hammer to slash isn't a reputation call.

Fair point. However, don't you think "overpaying" for Suter or Weber is a little different than Ehrhoff or Wisniewski? Especially if Nick leaves, there's no reason for Holland not to pursue one of those two.

I know you're a huge fan, but there's no way that first statement is true. Top 80% in the NHL or so is one of the 6 or 7 best goalies in the league. There's absolutely no way Hasek at his age would be in that category. Rinne, Lundqvist, Vokoun, Thomas, Miller, Luongo, Niemi and Price are definitely far superior right now. Not to mention, you could debate an entire second tier of goalies like Quick, Hiller, Ward, Crawford and Howard among others. Good for Dom for staying competitive, but we should also all remember he was sitting on the bench tracking faceoffs the last time he appeared in the NHL.

I really like this list a lot. I think it's unlikely the Tigers will get both Cuddyer and Ramirez with the money each will demand, but I do see Ramirez being a very possible addition. Doumit would be a great backup catcher for Avila. I will take any lefty not named Schlereth or righty named Perry for the pen. Add Grady for me and that would be a terrific off-season for the Tigers.

Yes it does. You don't believe 16 minutes worth of PK time has an effect on a team's ability to score goals? That's nearly an entire period where you can't get your lines going at even strength into a normal flow. The Red Wings deserved some of those calls last night, but the consistency or lack of was laughable. The Red Wings should have started OT on a powerplay after Abdelkader got blatantly interfered with at the end of the third. This was a very poorly officiated game, which greatly hampered the Wings' chances to win.

Well, playing with lazy and lazier should really get Z going. Get Bertuzzi out altogether and put Fil on Z's line instead.

Yup, I agree there as well. It was more of a hypothetical that whether there are unknown issues in the room or not, maybe there is a leadership void at a time like this. It's easy to say the problem is five goals in five games, but the Red Wings look so uninspired right now. Obviously losing isn't fun for them, but this recurring theme of poor efforts and garbage rhetoric after losses is quite worrisome. I get that everyone in there knows what needs to be done to succeed, but none (or very few of them) seem willing to do it on a nighly basis. Something is off besides not putting the puck in the net.

I don't disagree with you. Doesn't mean the Wings don't miss Draper for other reasons mentioned.

I don't generally agree or even care to listen to JR, but he brought up an interesting point on Versus tonight. Maybe the Red Wings miss a guy like Draper more than we know or expected. While it's still a veteran team, Drapes was always the vocal leader in the room. I'm not making excuses for scoring five goals in five games, but to build on speculation that the team has possibly begun tuning out Babcock, and not having Draper around maybe intensifies any tension that has built. Clearly this was a tough night. I guess I don't understand why the Red Wings best players can't score goals at all right now. On paper this looks likes one of the deepest forward units in the league. Nyquist hardly got to play thanks to dumb and dumber in stripes, but you are still asking a rookie to spark the top six. It may be time to dangle Filppula (one of our few NHL assets) or Franzen (not sure there is a market for him) for a legitimate sniper/power forward. Bertuzzi needs to sit. He doesn't bring anything to this team besides boneheaded penalties. I still feel like the Red Wings have the potential to be very good, but boy this is frustrating to watch. I am sick of hearing them say "We just gotta do it." No kidding, guys.

Wow, that's a very weak list. Johnson or Carroll would be my top two choices, but I would have a tough time getting overly excited for either. Although if you look around MLB, second base isn't a position with an abundance of highly talented players. I just don't want Rhymes or Raburn there ever again. Another name that popped into my mind today was Chase Headley. I mentioned him when Inge got sent down and before the Tigers acquired Betemit. The asking price would be pretty high, but Headley with the Tigers would be sick. I honestly prefer him over Ramirez if the Padres don't want a ransom.

Filppula - Datsyuk - Holmstrom/Bertuzzi (the other scratched) Nyquist - Z - Franzen Cleary - Helm - Hudler Abdelkader - Emmerton - Eaves Miller Hopefully Nyquist can provide a spark to the top six.

Evidently a guy buried in the AHL last year and yet to play a game this season is more valuable than a young prospect that has shown decent upside so far. As far as Kronwall, I love this deal. Gives the Red Wings some flexibility to still pursue someone like Suter next summer too. Kronner was always one of those players you envisioned playing only with the Red Wings. Well done, Kenny Holland.

Hossa. Would have picked him three summers ago too.