GoWings1905

You further proved the point. Fil should have more points, considering he does play far more at even strength than Hudler. Hudler gets the power play time because he is a superior offensive player in every regard. I think it's Hudler, not Filppula, that deserves the chance you were harping on. Hudler is more productive than Fil in a much lesser even strength role.

Fil plays far more than Hudler already. What other chance does he need? Hudler is better than Filppula at everything besides defense and the Red Wings have plenty of capable defensive forwards as it is. Being puny has no bearing on Hudler's value to the Red Wings. Filppula is very expendable to the Red Wings if it gives them a better chance to keep Hossa and Hudler around.

Fil has done just fine "sucking" this season without Cleary bringing him down like you claim. Do you make this crap up? Cleary looked fine playing top line minutes with Z and Pav. He didn't seem to negatively affect their game at all. As for Kopecky, re-signing him would be beyond pointless. He's the worst player on the team, hasn't improved even with more opportunities to play, and provides absolutely nothing to this Red Wings team. Helm or Abdelkader could easily fill Kopecky's role and do it quite better. I guess the Red Wings are content with the brilliant performance of the fourth line this season.

Dwayne Roloson for real? I hope that wasn't serious. Roloson wouldn't fare any better than Ozzie or Conklin have with the way the Red Wings defense has been playing.

Friday: Montreal @ Buffalo Columbus @ Pittsburgh New Jersey @ Atlanta Nashville @ Minnesota NY Rangers @ Dallas Saturday: Philadelphia @ Boston Anaheim @ Calgary Edmonton @ Detroit Toronto @ Montreal Buffalo @ Ottawa Los Angeles @ New Jersey Florida @ Washington San Jose @ Columbus NY Islanders @ Tampa Bay Colorado @ St Louis Carolina @ Phoenix Chicago @ Vancouver Sunday: Detroit @ Pittsburgh Edmonton @ Minnesota Philadelphia @ Atlanta Nashville @ Dallas

Stacy Roest and Marc Rodgers.

Pat Verbeek ... and anyone remember Dmitry Bykov? Boy, was he bad.

Brent Gilchrist and Jesse Wallin.

Most nights, I wish I could forget about him.

Fredrik Olausson and Steve Duchesne.

With the current state of the Red Wings defense, I can't see Lilja being moved. Kronwall and Stuart haven't been very reliable as a second pairing and trading Lilja leaves the Red Wings with a third pairing of Lebda/Meech and Chelios. For a struggling PK unit, trading Lilja (the second best penalty killer on the team) leaves a serious void. Rafalski and Kronwall getting more PK time scares the hell out of me. Unless the Red Wings think Ericsson is ready to come up and play top four minutes, Lilja is a very valuable commodity to this Red Wings team.

Look, I agree that Ozzie is struggling. That isn't the basis of my argument by any stretch. My defense of Ozzie comes more from the fact that I think most of the blame needs to be directed at the play of the defense. I am more concerned with the effort the Red Wings have played with on defense than I am with the play of either goalie. If the defense comes around, so will the goalies. I can somewhat understand your point about Ozzie using Dom as motivation. However, just judging what I can gather about Ozzie and his personality, this stretch of play bothers Ozzie more than we can tell. He loves the Red Wings probably more than any player ever has. He's frustrated with his struggles even more than we as fans are. There are always going to be people who doubt Ozzie, which is fine. I have confidence that Ozzie will get better. It doesn't make sense to give up on the guy who was just the backstop of a championship eight months ago. I suppose that is to be expected when the Red Wings hit a losing streak. Somebody has to shoulder the blame.

Did you conviently leave out Ozzie's .930 save percentage and 1.55 GAA in the playoffs last season? Ozzie was one of the main reasons the Red Wings even have the chance to repeat. It's easy to pick-and-choose your stats to skew Ozzie's success. Conklin let in two pretty soft goals yesterday or are they only "soft goals" when Ozzie lets them in? The common denominator is the Red Wings defensive effort on most nights is lacking badly. We need Ozzie and the defense to improve before the playoffs. Ozzie can't improve by sitting on the bench. Nothing against Conklin, but the Red Wings are better off with Ozzie in goal when the games matter the most. I don't see any reason to dismiss Ozzie so quickly when there is plenty of blame to go around for the Red Wings "slump" at the moment.

The whole team is struggling. This goes far beyond just Ozzie's performance in goal.

Who the hell would WANT Maltby and Draper in a trade?

I would be thrilled with Neil, but I can't see it happening. The Red Wings fourth line really needs an upgrade in energy. I would love to see a line in the playoffs of something like Abdelkader, Helm and Neil. I am pretty sure YoungGuns will appreciate this rumor.

Both goalies can definitely improve (Ozzie especially), but I have trouble placing too much blame on the goalies after watching the Red Wings defensive effort on most nights this season. Opposing teams have it far too easy in the Red Wings zone. I almost feel like the Red Wings need another big, physical defenseman that can actually force players off the puck. Rafalski, Lebda and Kronwall aren't getting the job done. Stuart needs to be a physical force when he comes back. Like you said, it's a combination of lackluster play from both the goalies and defense. My prevailing feeling though is we will see the goalies get much better when/if the Red Wings decide to focus on defense.

Oh good, another Ozzie thread. Conklin gave up four goals yesterday and has allowed nine in his past two starts. When are people going to realize the bigger issue lies within the defense? Neither of these two goalies are designed to carry the team when the defense doesn't play at a high level.

No. For the sole fact that I don't know that there is a better alternative and firing McCrimmon isn't suddenly going to make the defense focus. This is on the players to give some effort.

I was so pissed today when Babcock put the fourth line out for a shift immediately following the Leino goal. Nothing kills momentum more than Draper, Maltby and Kopecky. Of course, they spent the entire shift pinned in their own zone and the Capitals scored. Kopecky is clearly useless. He has been given a fair opportunity to play and it's obvious he doesn't provide anything to this team. I like Draper and Maltby, but both have been equally horrible this season. Any combination of Helm, Abdelkader, McCarty, Downey or Meech would provide some much needed energy from the fourth line. I am quite frustrated with a number of players on the Red Wings at the moment, but nothing bothers me more than watching our fourth line continue to get dominated on the ice.

That's a horrible comparison. The Red Wings defense never played at this poor of a level last season for Hasek. Your argument isn't even relevant to the circumstances.

I think your facts are off honestly. I am not arguing that Ozzie has outplayed Conklin because he hasn't. However, your statement that the Red Wings wouldn't be where there are now without Conklin is flat-out false. Ozzie has made 25 starts this season and out of a possible 50 points, the Red Wings have earned 36 points. Conklin has made 23 starts and the Red Wings have 33 points out of a possible 46. For Ozzie, that's a 72% rate and for Conklin it's just slightly less than 72%. Therefore, in spite of the performance between the two goalies, it's tough to argue Conklin has been any more successful relative to the Red Wings winning than Ozzie has. I do agree that Conklin has been a better goalie than Ozzie so far, but both have been equally good in getting the Red Wings points.

Yeah, I remember it sadly. I wasn't really doubting the Red Wings - it is just unfortunate that the injuries have really seemed to pile up lately. It's a good opportunity for guys like Leino and Abdelkader. The difference this season is that the Red Wings have nowhere near the cushion of points they had last February. Chicago isn't that far behind in the Central and the Sharks could bury the Red Wings with any extended losing streak. I want the Red Wings to get healthy, but they need to be careful of not letting this losing streak linger for too long.

Man, the injuries are really hitting hard right now. Maybe the new blood will provide some energy and let the regulars heal.

Friday: Pittsburgh @ New Jersey Ottawa @ Columbus Philadelphia @ Tampa Bay Nashville @ Calgary Minnesota @ Edmonton Saturday: Detroit @ Washington NY Rangers @ Boston Los Angeles @ Montreal Anaheim @ Colorado Pittsburgh @ Toronto Florida @ NY Islanders Dallas @ Columbus Atlanta @ Carolina Philadelphia @ St Louis Buffalo @ Phoenix Minnesota @ Vancouver Chicago @ San Jose Sunday: Ottawa @ Washington Nashville @ Edmonton Boston @ Montreal