GoWings1905

I predict this thread will cause chaos very soon.

The Red Wings will be fine. They start playing meaningful games in April, not January. It's frustrating to watch, but it's tough for the defending champs to play with full intensity during the regular season coming off a championship. It's not an excuse for poor play - it's just human nature to become complacent after hitting the ultimate goal. I have my concerns right now, but I wouldn't bet against this team when the playoffs roll around.

You don't think Nick is a great captain? He leads by example. It says something that the best player on the team (IMO, the entire NHL) shows up to play EVERY night. Other players respond when they see a player as talented as Nick willing to sacrifice everything for the ultimate goal of winning championships. Nick doesn't have or need that "not taking any crap" attitude. He works his ass off on the ice and I am willing to bet his teammates take notice and want to go out and duplicate that work ethic. You want to single out Nick and Pavel for not "fighting" for teammates, but who exactly on the current Red Wings roster goes out and fights anyways?

People are going to hate the Red Wings regardless because of their success. This incident isn't going to change other fans perception of the team.

Nick has missed 28 games due to injury in 1296 career games. Tell me exactly how that isn't tough.

I don't know what Bettman thinks, but I would want at least one player from the best team in the league to be represented at the ASG. Especially a team with as much talent as the Red Wings.

... Says the guy who let two players decide when they want to show up for the season.

Seriously? It's a January game against Columbus. Z already proved his value last June when it mattered. You are just looking for a built-in reason to criticize Z some more.

Classic.

It is kind of lucky on the timing for Z, but he earned it. Z has been underpaid for years now. I think a rumored contract of seven million per season or so is more than fair. It's just the way things work out sometimes. At the time, it appeared Datsyuk's contract was relatively steep. Pavel has improved immensely since that deal. Clearly Pavel is worth every penny and then some, but you can't justify Z making the same amount as Pavel when the circumstances and timing is different. I don't want to make this about Pavel versus Z. Both are such remarkably special players and even better guys off the ice. I just want Z to stay with the Red Wings and I am confident Kenny Holland will make that happen. We are incredibly blessed to have both of them in the Red Wings organization.

Wait a second ... Z isn't necessary but Filppula, Samuelsson and even Franzen or Hudler are?

No, it's not really though. The Red Wings can still realistically sign Z, Franzen and keep one of Hudler or Sammy. The numbers you proposed earlier are rather high on all ends. All four won the cup certainly, but one of them was the MVP in that run. I don't understand where you get that signing Z means losing everyone else. It's very likely that Holland will be successful in retaining as many pieces of this team as possible.

Different circumstances completely. Z shouldn't be compared to Pavel in terms of a contract.

Where is there any proof of that?

The Red Wings can still have plenty of depth without losing both Z and Hossa. You want to keep a handful of third line, maybe borderline second line players (besides Franzen) and lose two guys that are two of the most complete forwards in the league? Leino hasn't played one game in the NHL and you are willing to let Z and/or Hossa leave because Leino can somehow replace that production? The Red Wings can, should and will keep Z and still have a realistic chance of keeping Franzen and Hudler as well. Zetterberg isn't just another "good" two-way player. He is one of the elite forwards in the NHL with an incredible work ethic and real appreciation of the Red Wings organization. Not to mention, Z is a proven playoff performer. How would the Red Wings be a one line team with re-signing Z? Even at the worst, let's say the Red Wings lose Hossa and Sammy or Hudler up front next summer. I would rather have Hudler than Filppula or Sammy, but if Holland can keep Z, Franzen and one of Sammy or Hudler, the Red Wings are in great shape still. We're still looking at the same team that just won a championship, having to replace a solid depth player with the likes of Helm, Abdelkader or Leino. Other teams in the league would kill for that kind of depth at forward. Comparing the Red Wings to the Lightning is laughable.

The goalies will get better when the defense decides to show up on a nightly basis. Otherwise, the Red Wings will be lucky to win a round in the playoffs.

Stuart isn't here to put up points. Lidstrom, Rafalski and Kronwall do plenty of that on defense. Stuart doesn't just hit - overall he is very solid defensively and provides a physical presence the Red Wings otherwise don't have on the back end. Why are you so quick to jump on Stuart anyways?

Call a dive on Nabokov for selling what was a rather minor bump.

Stuart isn't going anywhere. He is a perfect fit as a top four defenseman. Lilja has been terrific this season, but do you trust him on the second pairing in the playoffs? And if Stuart goes, are you comfortable with Lebda/Meech and Chelios on the third pairing?

I don't know what Cleary has to do with anything. Cleary still has more goals and points than Filppula. Cleary also missed time due to injury and played a good portion of the season with one eye. Maybe you could clarify what is wrong with liking one of the hardest working, most versatile players on the Red Wings. As to your point with Filppula, I never said he wasn't a great passer. Read my post about Franzen, which I made in reference to someone saying Franzen deserved the same contract as Filppula. I said Franzen was by far a better goal scorer, finisher, and has better hands than Filppula - all while being just as good defensively as Fil. I didn't even mention that Mule's size and net presence is something the Red Wings can't afford to lose. Which of those claims was false? Fil doesn't get power play time because he doesn't warrant it on this team right now. Filppula does have potential, but he hasn't lived up to his contract this season. Is six goals in 45 games your evidence that Fil can score? The Red Wings have plenty of forwards that can kill penalties. I would much rather have Franzen and Hudler around next season if it means at the expense of Filppula.

Val Filppula and/or Brett Lebda. IMO, the Red Wings need a Dallas Drake type player at the deadline. Helm is going to be in during the playoffs, which will be a boost to the fourth line as it is. I still think this team needs a gritty, physical forechecker in the mold of Drake. On defense, the Red Wings inability to clear the puck out of their own zone has concerned me all season. It seems that far too many opponents get the Red Wings stuck in the zone and the defense struggles to regain possession. San Jose abused the Red Wings in this part of the game the other night. Kronwall and Stuart are the most at blame - they need to be more physical on defense as a pair. Too many teams seem to be able to get into the Red Wings zone easily and cycle the puck at will.

Yeah, that's true. I try to keep that in mind, but it's tough to accept this season is over when the Pistons have set the bar so high in expectations with their recent success. I feel bad for Rip the most - AI has really seemed to throw Rip out of sync completely. The Pistons need to let AI and Sheed walk after this year. More than anything else, the Pistons need a legitimate scoring big man. The Pistons have relied for far too long on jump shooting because they have no frontcourt player that can (or is willing ... Rasheed) post up and score in the paint. The Pistons backcourt has a great core with Stuckey, Rip, and Afflalo. Maxiell and Johnson are role players. I love McDyess, but he isn't exactly young. The Pistons passed on Chris Bosh for Darko - I would think he would be a perfect fit for the Pistons when he becomes a free agent.

What are you basing that claim from?

Are you kidding? Filppula is arguably overpaid and you want to give Franzen the same contract? Franzen is a far better goal scorer, finisher, has better hands, and is very comparable defensively to Filppula. How are the two even similar in terms of performance?