GoWings1905

I am tired of the complete lack of effort in almost every game. The Red Wings could be so damn good if they focused. It's over a 1/3 of the way into the season and if the Red Wings think they can just coast on skill until April and then turn on the defensive switch, they are dead wrong. I don't what will fix it, but I do think some minor roster changes are beyond necessary by now. Some players aren't cutting it and they need to be held accountable. It's different scenarios, but I see the Detroit Pistons following their championship in these Red Wings. It's human nature, but it's not an excuse for a lack of effort. For once, the Red Wings have something to prove on Thursday.

In a way, they really need it to get ugly to learn a lesson. I have a feeling it won't though. I am guessing the Red Wings beat the Sharks on Thursday.

I probably lumped Lilja in unfairly with Lebda just because they play as a defense pair. I agree with you - Lilja has been very good overall this season. It just seems that when Lilja and Lebda are on the ice together at even strength, they spend most of the shift chasing the puck in their own zone. It usually leads to a goal, quality scoring chance, or penalty more often than not. I notice it the most when Lilja and Lebda are stuck on the ice with our God-awful fourth line. It still can't hurt to play Chelios over Lebda, or like you suggested move Lebda and give Ericsson a chance. Lebda is easily the worst player on a team right now that has plenty of guys underachieving. EDIT: Forgot about Kopecky. Lebda is at least better than one player.

Lebda wasn't on the ice for the goals, but he is still awful. Lilja and Lebda spend every shift chasing the puck in their own zone. Lebda isn't remotely good defensively, can't win battles for the puck, and is usually out of position. The one thing Lebda is known for (speed) hardly is enough to overlook his major defensive flaws. Chelios should be playing over Lebda from here on out.

Pray the defense decides to play before April.

Good. The sooner the better.

What a sorry effort by the Red Wings. They played like garbage until they got down 3-1 and then decided to try and make a game of it. I feel bad for Ozzie - the defense left him out to dry on all three goals tonight. Sloppy turnovers and poor defensive play especially in the first period. Ozzie was really fighting the puck tonight though, although I don't fault him for any of the goals. It seems that when the Red Wings do give up shots, they are always quality scoring chances. The defense is purely awful right now. I hated Babcock's constant line juggling tonight too. Find some combinations and give them a chance to work. The original lines for the game are really the best ones. If the Red Wings would quit spotting teams a two-goal lead every night, the line juggling wouldn't be so necessary. Lastly, our fourth line is utterly useless. I have held off typing it for some time, but they are a trainwreck. I swear every time the fourth line was on the ice, the Avalanche controlled the puck in the Red Wings zone. This team needs Darren Helm. I don't care about Helm getting more minutes at Grand Rapids. He would give the Red Wings some much needed energy on the fourth line. Kopecky can take a seat - he had his chance and he does nothing. I am sick of watching Maltby, Draper, and Kopecky chase the puck and get scored on practically every time they step on the ice. This was one of the most frustrating games of the season for me. The Red Wings played with no heart and deserved to lose. They better decide to play on Thursday for more than ten minutes or they will get run out of the building.

Nobody puts up points with Kopecky and Maltby. It's the line of nothing. Put Hudler back with Filppula.

What exactly has Hudler done wrong tonight that got him demoted to the fourth line with Kopecky and Maltby? I don't get Babcock sometimes.

Trade Franzen too. He's productive and a free agent at the end of the season.

I am OK with the point system, but overtime needs tweaking. The 4-on-4 overtime for five minutes is pointless. Most teams would just rather sit back and take their chance at an extra point in the shootout. Add five more minutes of 3-on-3 after the 4-on-4 and by then the game should be decided. If it were up to me, I would eliminate shootouts altogether as it is a terrible way to decide a winner and give a team an extra point. Bettman knows what is best for the league though.

I still hate the Avalanche more than any other team. When is the last time the Red Wings actually lost to Colorado anyways? 8-0 last season was beautiful. The streak continues tonight. Red Wings: 5 (Hossa, Franzen x2, Holmstrom, Z) Avalanche: 3 (Hejduk, Smyth, Liles) Let's Go Red Wings!

Cool. Thanks NFM.

Thanks Aussie. I was just going to ask what the lines looked like to start since I don't get FS Plus. Is Chelios in for Lebda or Lilja?

No worries. Hope everything works out for you.

Go back and read your previous post. I believe you if you didn't mean anything by it, but that's not the way it came across at all. It's not that big of a deal dude. There's no need to go nuts.

It will be like JLA West in Phoenix tonight. I really want to see Ozzie and the defense come out with a solid game. The Pistons are on FS Detroit and I don't get FS Plus here, so I will have to check out the replay of the game at midnight on FS Detroit. I am going to try and avoid looking at the score until then, but I can't see that actually happening. Red Wings: 4 (Maltby, Z, Cleary, Rafalski) Coyotes: 2 (Mueller, Hanzal) Let's Go Red Wings!

Wait a second ... so when the Red Wings win as a team, Babcock has nothing to do with it, but when the team "struggles" then it becomes a coaching problem? Babcock isn't perfect - nobody is claiming that. There needs to be improvement all the way around, but most especially from the guys actually playing the game. A coach can only do so much when effort is lacking.

Great post. I couldn't agree more.

I don't know what you are watching, but evidently not Cleary. You can discredit Cleary's points, but eight points in five games speaks for itself. Your reasoning is weak - there is more to getting points than having good linemates or randomly touching the puck to get an assist like you claim. Cleary has had great jump playing as a top six forward. If Cleary wasn't playing well, why wouldn't Babock just move him back to the third line with Hudler and Filppula then? Your statement that you never see Cleary make passes that create goals is laughable. Off the top of my head, perhaps you missed the Anaheim game. Cleary's hustle and pass led directly to Hossa's game-winning goal that night. If that's not enough for you, Cleary also made a great effort to knock the puck out of the air and set up Filppula's goal in the Chicago game last Saturday night. Cleary also made the pass to Hossa that resulted in the game being tied at four. I don't know what other proof you need, but it would help to have some actual evidence before you make claims that Cleary is directly getting points because of his linemates. Many of the goals Cleary's linemates have scored in the past five games have been because of Cleary's hustle and playmaking ability. Maybe you can come up with some actual proof that Cleary has "played like s***" on the top lines instead of making baseless claims with no evidence to support your theories.

^ I stopped reading here. Cleary has been the Red Wings best forward since coming back from the eye injury. The great part about Cleary is he can be either a top six forward or a third line player. I don't understand why you think he can't keep up the pace with Z, Pavel, or Hossa. Cleary has two goals and eight points in the past five games playing on a line with the big guns. I don't care if you want to make arguments about juggling lines, but at least try to have some validity when making a case about a player. Cleary is one of the few guys on the team busting his ass every shift and lately he has been rewarded for it. Babcock is the best coach in the league too. Period.

How do we make you stop? It's ONE loss. Settle down for goodness sake.

That's a great fan.

The Red Wings played pretty well tonight. Things can't bounce their way every night guys. I would say they have won plenty of games this season that they probably didn't deserve to and tonight went the other way. It's going to happen over 82 games. At least the Wings get a chance to get after it again tomorrow night. Sammy was absoutely brutal tonight. I wish someone could look at every shift and count the number of crap passes and useless shots (into the defense) that Sammy had. I also hope Babcock finds some combination of forward lines and sticks to them. I am all for line juggling, but at least give the guys a chance to mesh. Put ZDH together and see what happens. Cleary, Franzen, and Hossa is a hell of a second line. Tomorrow I want to see a strong start from Ozzie in goal and Chelios playing for Lebda. Yes I know Lebda scored the goal, but he is just awful defensively. Tough loss, but it needed to happen. Coasting to wins isn't good for anybody. The Red Wings will be better tomorrow.

I would :puke: and then probably because Pronger is a great player.