GoWings1905

No way in hell Dan Cleary plays on the fourth line with Kopecky and Mac on the third. Hudler isn't even a center either, so how would that work? Filppula will be back on the third line with Cleary when Franzen comes back. Where is Samuelsson in your great line combinations anyways? I hope you are kidding if you really think Mac or Kopecky should be dressing over Sammy.

I LOVE this trade. Joe D just made the Pistons better this season and opened up a world of potential for the future. For starters, this Pistons team with Chauncey Billups is exactly what the Pistons have been the past three seasons - a very good, but not elite team. I am a huge Billups fan (and always will be), but the Pistons aren't better than the Celtics or Cavaliers in the Eastern Conference with Chauncey here. It's rather obvious from the last couple of playoffs that Chauncey has lost a step. The emergence of Stuckey probably made it easier for Joe D to pull the trigger on trading Chauncey too. If we are talking solely in terms of ability, Allen Iverson for Chauncey Billups is a straight up steal. Iverson is an elite scorer in the NBA - something the Pistons have lacked for years. If AI stays healthy, the Pistons are a better playoff team and have a fighting chance of getting back to the Finals with AI. Say what you want about AI being "selfish", but the guy plays all-out every single game he steps on the court. He has the motivation to win a championship and he is surrounded by a coach and teammates where any potential character issues are moot. For those of you bringing up the "practice issue", I have to wonder why you have a problem with that coming from AI, but you are OK with this current core of Pistons and their complacent act for the past three years? AI does leave it all on the floor, something this group of Pistons could use a refresher lesson with. I know I like the Pistons chances against the Celtics in the playoffs much better with a player like AI on the team. For the future, this is also a terrific deal. AI is a free agent next summer, and so is Rasheed. Chauncey's lengthy contract is gone now too. Yes, I have read about the LeBron rumors, but that seems more like a fantasy at this point. I suppose taking a run at Bosh or D-Wade isn't all that bad of a consolation prize. Regardless, Joe D made the Pistons better this season and for future years as well. The Pistons are a very good basketball team with Mr. Big Shot, but have the real potential to win a championship with Allen Iverson. I have to admit, this adds a whole new level of excitement for me regarding the Pistons this season. They needed a change, some fresh blood, and this is it. Joe D lived up to his promises as usual. I wish the best of luck to Chauncey in Denver. Chauncey is a class act, a champion, and a Piston no matter what. Thanks for the memories Mr. Big Shot.

Just a hunch, but defense might be a pretty common theme at practice this week.

I don't expect much, or really care if the Red Wings get much in return. Lebda just needs to be off the team. A sixth defenseman with a minus nine rating is laughable. I would be happy with the dollar for Lebda.

Trade Brett Lebda for whatever any team offers. Other than that, nothing.

By the standards of the forwards on the Red Wings, Hudler isn't the best defensively. I really don't think Hudler is any worse than Samuelsson in his own end on most nights and Samuelsson is still logging second line minutes. Hudler never even got a chance to play on the second line, while Sammy can seemingly do no wrong in Babcock's eyes. It's not that Hudler can't contribute to the team - the problem is that Babcock doesn't give him a fair opportunity to do so.

Marian Hossa is this year's version of Jason Blake. I mean it as sarcasm, but that was actually typed by someone on here when Hossa was "struggling" those first couple of games. I wish I could find that quote - it still cracks me up though.

All I can say is ... finally! Better late than never, but Brett Lebda has found his proper role on the team now. I hope Meech makes the most of his opportunity - it won't take much to be an improvement from Lebda. I love moving Filppula up to the second line. Filppula more than deserves a chance to play with Z. I don't quite understand why Sammy stays on the second line over Cleary, but Babcock is very reluctant to demote Sammy from anything for some reason. Filppula, Z, and Cleary would be a nice combination IMO. That fourth line is a disaster. They'll spend every shift in their own zone chasing the puck. Maltby has been fine, but Kopecky and Mac haven't done anything. Hopefully we'll get a win to close out the road trip.

Kronner had one very good game (Chicago). Other than that, I don't think Kronwall has played that well compared to what we watched in the playoffs. Both Kronwall and Stuart have completely lacked any physical play, which is what makes them such an ideal defense pairing. I will stand by that Lilja has been just as good defensively as anyone else on the team to this point.

OK, you picked out two bad plays that Lilja has made. I wish I could only come up with two bad plays from Lebda in a single game. You forgot to mention that Lilja kills penalties, is a good shot blocker, and is pretty solid defensively, which are all things Brett Lebda is not. For a 5th defenseman, Andreas Lilja is perfectly fine. In fact, Lilja has been better than both Kronwall and Stuart this season, so should we drop them off in Phoenix too? The whole Red Wings team is coughing up the puck like crazy. You singled out one mistake from Lilja, but overlooked all of the positive attributes Lilja provides. Here's what Brett Lebda is good at ... being fast. Lebda is the problem, not Lilja.

Well said and I agree. There is no reason to panic. The Red Wings are 7-2-2 and haven't even come close to playing up to their level collectively on defense. I am with you on Lilja. I think he contributes just fine for a third pairing defenseman. Good penalty killer, blocks shots, and has been pretty consistent defensively outside of the occasional giveaway. Lebda doesn't provide any of that - in fact, he brings just the opposite of everything I listed. Meech is a better alternative to Lebda right now and Chelios most certainly will be when he comes back. Lebda has been brutal and there is no reason to keep dressing him every game.

Lilja is pissed he has to be paired with Lebda the turnover every game.

Yup. Lilja has really been solid this season. Lebda, however, is a disaster everytime he steps on the ice. I just can't find any reason Babcock continues to dress Lebda over Meech.

Just out of my own curiosity, why exactly should Lebda keep playing? I don't think it's "s*** talkin" if it's true.

This is one player rant thread I completely agree with. Lebda is absolutely the worst player on the team by far. He provides nothing to the Red Wings, unless we are counting turnovers and poor defensive coverage as something. There is no way in my mind that Derek Meech could possibly be any worse than Lebda. Give Meech a chance - Lebda isn't cutting it by any stretch now.

I am not going to sit here and vouch for Sammy to get traded simply because it is a very unlikely scenario because Babcock clearly likes Sammy. I don't hate Samuelsson and he does provide some value to the team particularly for his salary. My biggest complaint is Babcock's use of Samuelsson in regards to ice time, at the expense of guys like Filppula and Hudler. Samuelsson was a trainwreck in the Anaheim game and IMO Filppula was absolutely tremendous when he played. Hudler doesn't even get a chance anymore. I don't see anything Samuelsson does that Filppula or Hudler couldn't at least equal or better what Sammy provides (at least in terms of even strength). Sammy even played more than Hossa last night. That is puzzling.

Any team that will take Lebda is a great deal.

Friday: Dallas @ Chicago Vancouver @ Anaheim Saturday: Edmonton @ Carolina Dallas @ Boston Washington @ Buffalo NY Rangers @ Toronto Atlanta @ New Jersey Montreal @ NY Islanders Chicago @ Columbus Ottawa @ Tampa Bay Florida @ Nashville Pittsburgh @ St Louis Minnesota @ Phoenix Calgary @ Los Angeles Sunday: Edmonton @ Philadelphia Toronto @ Carolina Florida @ Atlanta Calgary @ Anaheim San Jose @ Colorado Detroit @ Vancouver

Ozzie

It's really not the same circumstances though to what you are alluding to. Ozzie has not been great so far this season - I am by no means denying that. It is, however, very evident that everyone on the Red Wings defense (including Lidstrom) is not playing up to their typical standards. Giving up 30-40 shots per game is not acceptable, regardless of whichever goalie the Red Wings have in net. Dom was never facing the number of shots that the Red Wings defense is giving up so far this season. There really is a big difference. Either way, everyone needs to step up on defense. Kronwall and Stuart have not been good at all defensively. Lebda is Lebda. There is room for improvement all the way around (including Ozzie). It's just convenient for people to point fingers at the goalie first when everything isn't going as planned.

Bulls***. That was a high stick. Frustrating game all the way around. Oh well, another chance tomorrow.

My goodness, why does Sammy play so much? Give Filppula and Hudler a chance.

HELL YEAH!!! Z! Great play by the puckhog, never-passing Dan Cleary.

HELL YEAH!!! Z