GoWings1905

Oh, I'm not writing him off already. I was just stating he was rather unnoticeable in last night's game, much like Cleary. I still think Weiss can and needs to be a reliable second line center for the Wings. He hasn't shown much yet in the pre-season to inspire confidence; though to be fair, his conditioning is probably still off and his linemates haven't been ideal either.

I didn't notice Cleary either. Sadly, I would throw Weiss in that same category.

No, but he probably won't allow five either. Mrazek has looked far superior in the pre-season and Monster was atrocious after the new year. I think it's pretty safe to say Mrazek is the better goalie, waiver options or not.

Whenever Monster's groin inevitably goes bad, we will finally have the better backup goalie on the team.

Exactly. He made his money by being a goal-scorer. I don't expect 40 either like he claimed in the interview, but damn one in 23 games and four horrible playoffs in a row isn't good enough.

Summer gave it a chance to cool off, but I have now come back to realization how much Franzen annoys me. "I like to play defense and win games." You can do those things and still score goals too. Your captain does.

Massive payroll and haven't been able to put together even a decent bullpen for years. It's absolutely ridiculous the Tigers continue to fail in the playoffs with the starting pitching and offensive talent they have. Ausmus blows, too. Dude is a worse version of Leyland and completely in over his head. I thought he would be more "non-traditional" as a manager, but he couldn't be more by the book.

Babs says that, but he has a history of not actually following through with it. He has been much more direct lately though about claiming the veteran priority is out.

This brings pure joy to my day. Thank you Babs! Now it just needs to actually happen next week.

Third in the division because I'm not sold on the Canadiens and probably around sixth in the East. The Wings should be better if healthier, but there are too many questions marks for me to put them atop the division or top-four in the conference. I still really don't like the defense at all, though I do expect Jimmy to be much better this season.

Mrazek looks terrific. Always seems to put himself in great position to make a stop.

These refs are making a pre-season game even more unwatchable. Can we play hockey at some point?

Maybe not in reality, but he should be.

Lashoff is fine as a 7th d-man, but nothing more. He really shouldn't be playing as many games as he has in previous seasons. I don't believe Babs needs to call out Kindl. It doesn't seem very logical though to deem Kindl's job as safe given his performance and the fact the Wings have prospects ready to make the jump. I don't think we really need to see more games from Kindl. He's 27 and had plenty of opportunity already to establish himself in the league. If Ouellet is a better option on October 9th (which appears very likely) then there's no reason not to have Ouellet take Kindl's job. The Wings defense is weak and any chance to upgrade should be taken immediately. Babs makes this bizarre statement that his two worst d-men aren't at risk, which is basically stating we are going to try the same thing on defense again and expect different results. I just want the best players on the ice. Not eventually either because as we seen last season, our prospects have the ability to generally hold their own. Again, I do believe Sproul and Backman need more time in Grand Rapids, but Ouellet would be fine on the third pairing and so would a healthy Marchenko.

That doesn't make any sense. Lashoff is a plug and Kindl was terrible last season. If one of the four prospects is better, why wouldn't you at least start them on the third pairing? Honestly, Ouellet already looks like he would be an upgrade from either Kindl or Lashoff. Who are any of the prospects going to knock out of the top-four so early in their careers? You already have Kronwall, E, DeKeyser and possibly Smith plus the four million dollar man too. Let them take Kindl or Lashoff's job and grow into larger roles for the future. The defense is bad. Why would you want to try the same group as last season? The only potential for development is going to come from Smith. I don't expect all four to make the team now, but one of them should get a shot.

I agree. I have never liked the idea of Helm playing on the top line. It might be slightly better than Abby, but again we are talking about two players that are much better suited for the third or fourth line. Helm has little finishing ability -- playing with Pavel and/or Z isn't going to magically change that. Play Jurco there instead. I mean God forbid we ever give Datsyuk a winger that can actually finish.

No worries. My response about Kronwall was in regards to him being -2 in the game against Chicago, which was the same as Cleary. I was just stating that Kronwall's pre-season performances have no influence on him making the team, unlike you would presume with Cleary. I agree Franzen is rightfully safe. I don't think even his most vocal opponents would dispute that.

I think you entirely misread the context of that conversation. Besides, who mentioned anything about Franzen?

For sure. I'm holding him to the best players play comment, though. Which is probably stupid because that isn't the Red Wings way usually.

I don't want Cleary to fail. I personally love the guy and his work ethic. He was a great story for the Red Wings and a key contributor for years. That being said, I don't want Dan Cleary around if it's more of the same with him again and he can't contribute anything at all. He really shouldn't even be here for starters based on performance, but he is and he should have to earn his playing time just like every prospect does. I think that's where most people sit with Cleary. Maybe there a few wanting him to fail. However, I believe the consensus is that Dan Cleary needs to show something to deserve even getting those ten games. Because right now, he offers the least out of any forward on the roster.

I definitely agree. I don't like plus/minus anyways, so without seeing the game, I also don't know how well Cleary actually played. I still don't want Cleary playing on opening night, but I want to see if he can actually skate again before I write him off entirely.

Kronwall isn't playing for a job?

I especially love the "at least it happened now" line. Like the Wings have a great run of health lately in November, January or April.

Well, that's an appropriate start to continue the disaster of the off-season. I knew there was no way it was only going to be a week. Any time there is a speculated return date for an injured player for the Wings, you can pretty much at least triple it. I guess the silver lining is Jurco practically has to make the team now. Which I hope means he plays so well they can't send him back down.

Exactly. Nyquist wasn't "tied" with Cleary or Samuelsson or Bertuzzi coming out of training camp last year. Tatar sat out most of the first ten games too. Two of the Wings best players a season ago were victims of veteran priority. I need to see it to actually believe it too. Jurco will be the real indicator because we all know already he's good enough to be on the team. If they send him down, it's same old Red Wings.