GoWings1905

Oh, the days of 2009 when that line would have been exciting to see together. Poor Z.

DeKeyser is much better defensively and moves the puck well too. Lashoff doesn't have the slightest ounce of offensive ability -- that's just pure hyperbole and doesn't take into account the massive difference in skill between Smith and Lashoff. Every time Smith and Quincey have played together, it has failed miserably as a pairing. Smith was the Wings best d-man during the Boston series and has the potential to contribute more offensively if the Wings allow him to do so, which would be wise since they got nothing from that standpoint a season ago. Restricting Smith to Quincey again isn't going to help Smith's development. If you aren't a fan of DeKeyser with Smith, then put DeKeyser with E instead and let Smith go with Kronwall.

The Quincey/Smith pairing has never worked and Babs just keeps reverting back to it if that is the case again. Smith needs someone that allows him to jump into plays and be more active offensively. He played his best hockey by far with Kronwall as his partner last season. I don't care so much if the Wings leave Kronwall and E together, but at least play Smith with DeKeyser. Quincey on the third pairing with whichever other mistake is necessary or ideally Marchenko/Ouellet instead.

Holland tried signing Matt Niskanen to a huge contract. Same with Dan Boyle for fewer years. Holland was involved in the bidding wars this past summer and lost. It wasn't like he had this plan to not participate because the prices were too high. You can't really praise him for being prudent in free agency when in reality, he is trying and the players just aren't coming to Detroit and he doesn't know why. Holland still overpays for mediocre players anyways: see Quincey, Samuelsson, Legwand recently.

That team could ill-afford to keep DeKeyser down then. Between the injuries and porous defense, the Wings needed DeKeyser to even make the playoffs. Babs said after that they probably don't get in without DeKeyser around. That's a pretty rare example of the Wings not opting to bury a player in Grand Rapids and it would have been a colossal failure to do so.

Smith I understand, but Ericsson still? E has been solid defensively and the Wings best penalty killer for years. He has cut down on the turnovers significantly since earlier in his career. DeKeyser has potential and has done well so far, but Ericsson right now is much more valuable to the Wings defense.

One can only hope. I want to see that Tatar/Sheahan/Jurco line reunited. Nothing against Alfie -- I just don't like the lingering injury concerns associated with a 42 year old. I personally am kinda wishing he hangs them up. Especially since we are this close to training camp now and Alfie's back is still an issue.

Yes, but can your left shoe pull a piano?

I'm not demanding it -- I said Jurco and Mantha needed to earn their spots, like anyone. Ferraro didn't show much when he was up, even though it was a small sample size. Callahan's ceiling is a 4th liner. Losing them wouldn't be catastrophic. If either was all that impressive, they would have spent time with the Wings last season when most of the forwards were out injured. Jurco already proved his worth anyways, but he should go to Grand Rapids because the Wings owe it to Landon Ferraro to get a 5-10 game NHL tryout? That's not impatient fandom -- it's expecting the organization to ice the best team possible. Marginal NHL players get evaluated during the pre-season. That's the whole purpose to see if they are good enough to play on an NHL roster in the regular season.

If those players all earn their spots (extremely unlikely), why should they not make the team? Callahan, Ferraro and others all have the same opportunity to prove their worth in the pre-season too. It's not like these are highly valued prospects the Wings would be giving up for nothing. They are marginal NHL players at best. I'm not writing them off, but they should get evaluated before the regular season and decisions should be based on merit. I'm not a huge fan of "send them down because you can" if those guys can help the Wings win now and into the future as well.

Hard to really say at this point. A lot probably depends on Alfie's status and what players like Jurco and Mantha show during the pre-season. Cleary isn't going anywhere though for a minimum of ten games. The Red Wings could have just not signed him and they are going to honor their commitment and at least give Cleary a shot, for better or probably worse. Andersson seems like he has no place going forward. You have to figure one of Kindl or Lashoff might be in jeopardy should Marchenko or Ouellet play their way onto the team.

Exactly. Kindl's A-game is actually pretty solid, as evidenced by his progress during the lockout-shortened season. He played well and it looked like he had finally reached some of that potential. Then Kindl fell off drastically this past season and he's now closer to being a bust again than even a serviceable d-man. I don't know if it is a confidence issue or what, but at age 27 his time is running out. I personally have seen enough of Kindl and I don't think he's going to figure it out on a consistent basis. At this point, I want to just roll with Marchenko and/or Ouellet instead of Kindl and Lashoff. Those two have gotten more than enough opportunity and the Wings know what they have in them (which isn't a whole lot). The Wings defense is bad. Playing the same six or seven guys again and expecting a different result, besides a leap in Smith's development, seems foolish.

She's essentially Ken Holland, in the form of a "reporter." I can read press releases and Holland's tireless quotes if I want the organizational spin.

I think the difference between the two is Babcock has taken Holland's makeshift/transitional/mediocre/insert your preferred term rosters and kept them competitive. Babs certainly has his faults, but how many coaches get last year's version of the Red Wings into the playoffs at all given the circumstances? I have gotten on Babs in the past for his stubbornness and certain personnel decisions, though in reality he has done exceptional work and last season was probably his best coaching job to date. I don't want to turn this into another bash Holland thread, but I think the track record since 2009 speaks for itself. That's why the general manager has taken more heat than the head coach. Babs can only coach up the players he's given so much.

Haha, no I caught it. One goal in 23 games to close a season plus a no-show in the playoffs four years running just doesn't meet my standards for a goal-scoring winger. Maybe in a complimentary sense, but the Wings clearly can't rely on Franzen for consistency.

I don't see what that has to do with my point. That 2008 team was stacked and put on a clinic in puck possession every night. Hossa scored 40+ for the Red Wings in 2009 and they have struggled to find even a 30 goal scorer since then. It didn't translate into a cup because the Wings were ravaged by injury during the playoffs (including Hossa). Regardless, this team has lacked a goal-scoring winger for over five years. Semin fits that description, but depends on how you feel about the baggage involved.

I wanted Semin a few years back when he got a one-year deal. That condition was low risk, high reward. Seven million committed for one season is more appealing than long-term for a player with questions about his work ethic. The Wings desperately need a top-six winger that scores goals, though. Have since Hossa left.

I know what you are saying, but wasn't last season a fair enough shot? I'm lumping Kindl, Lashoff, Cleary mostly into this category. How much more do we need to see of Jakub Kindl before we officially call him a bust and just go with the upside in Marchenko or Ouellet instead? These guys have had years now to show something and Kindl/Lashoff was a nightmare third pairing a season ago. Eventually the Wings are gonna have to try something else on defense, especially since they keep missing on impact free agent d-men. I don't think Kindl or Lashoff are drastically going to improve while wasting a 1/4 of the season on them, like the Wings did with Nyquist in Grand Rapids.

I'm just gonna assume given the Wings recent history none of them make the team. If they do over Kindl and Lashoff, I will give them credit.

I'm speaking specifically about this season on defense. However, the only reason the forwards even got a shot was due to injuries. I don't care about losing out on Diaz if it means Marchenko or Ouellet gets the spot instead. If the Wings are just going to roll with Kindl and Lashoff again, then I don't really know what the plan is on defense. It's not really necessarily rushing anyone -- Ouellet or Marchenko could easily hold their own already on the third pairing.

All on defense too, which is a huge weakness. Yeah, the Wings have quality d-men prospects lingering but they need to be incorporating them quicker or actually hit on signing free agent d-men. Or get creative and use the abundance of prospects to obtain defense help in a trade. Datsyuk and Zetterberg are aging superstars. As much as I like our prospect pool, it's a stretch (or at least unknown) if any turn out to be as good or even comparable to the twins. Either rebuild entirely or go all-in to compete while there is still a window with Pav and Z. Stuck in mediocrity with no sense of direction isn't the place to be.

I don't know that Calgary's defense is in much different of a position than the Wings right now. The Flames defense certainly isn't great, but they have seven d-men already, so Diaz is basically just trying to make the roster over bottom pairing guys like he would have done in Detroit too. There is plenty of opportunity to make an NHL roster on defense for the Red Wings at the moment -- especially since it seems the front office is reluctant to play any of the prospects this season. I don't think you look at Jakub Kindl and Brian Lashoff as some huge deterrent to getting a job.

Nobody even wants a tryout from the Red Wings. The only d-man the Wings could get was Kyle Quincey and they gave him a raise to come back. Just play the kids on defense.

I'm skeptical because if Diaz was anything truly worthwhile he wouldn't be taking tryout offers in September. I'm fine with at least giving him a shot to maybe overtake either Kindl or Lashoff for that 6th/7th d-man spot. I would just rather run with Marchenko or Ouellet than any of the above, but overripe and the kids need more time will prevail as usual.

Glendening is very overrated as a shutdown defender. Do you really want him out there against the top lines in the East? We have an abundance of capable two-way centers to perform that role, who also can contribute offensively as well. Glendening can stay on the 4th line if needed, but Babcock relied on him way too much down the stretch last season. You can't match Glendening every time with Malkin, Crosby or Bergeron because then Glendening ends up playing 15 minutes. That isn't gonna win the Red Wings many games.